Poll: Do you like the Drac'thyr Evoker?

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  1. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Most of the "happyness" comes from the "elf" side of the fanbase, that is already getting too much pamper from blizzard in the last decade.

    They should, open the other races as visage forms, yes, even without the customizations, better have something than ahve nothing at all, and maybe eventually, gradually, do the other customizations, they have time and money for that,



    This is most art/model work, it its not supposed to take this long, making other races have the painted scales should not take those many months, neither put the dracthyr to be able to be other classes, major problem is actually fixing the dragon model to use weapons and armor.
    Are you a game Developer? A model rig creator or Artist by chance?

    Because honestly unless you are you are showing your lack of understanding of what is required to model an asset and rig it.

  2. #502
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrexia View Post
    Are you a game Developer? A model rig creator or Artist by chance?

    Because honestly unless you are you are showing your lack of understanding of what is required to model an asset and rig it.
    Are you? are you one of those? where is your credentials?

    do you understand they create new textures and designs for each PATCH? they straight up made 4 allied races from Legion to be fully playable in bfa pre-patch, they even re-design the nightborne, cause they could not use armor, and you are saying to me they can't make other visage options or make the dragonform use weapons? come on now.

    People need to stop acting like blizzard is a indie company.

  3. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Are you? are you one of those? where is your credentials?

    do you understand they create new textures and designs for each PATCH? they straight up made 4 allied races from Legion to be fully playable in bfa pre-patch, they even re-design the nightborne, cause they could not use armor, and you are saying to me they can't make other visage options or make the dragonform use weapons? come on now.

    People need to stop acting like blizzard is a indie company.
    I do actually dabble in abit of modelling and texturing to be honest but it's more private work, avatars for VR chat and so fourth so Yes I understand what goes into a model and the time it takes, but I don't do it for a living as I work on server side clients.

    Now you didnt answer my question have you ever done any of the work yourself? If not just kindly stop pretending you do.

  4. #504
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrexia View Post
    I do actually dabble in abit of modelling and texturing to be honest but it's more private work, avatars for VR chat and so fourth so Yes I understand what goes into a model and the time it takes, but I don't do it for a living as I work on server side clients.

    Now you didnt answer my question have you ever done any of the work yourself? If not just kindly stop pretending you do.
    I don't need to? you are not a professional artist yourself, why i need to be?

    This is the lamest way you are trying to do an appeal to authority fallacy here

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by dragonflight10 View Post
    Exaaactly xD

    They spend months complaining about the expansion yet they are the first ones to level
    they can't be true to themselves, which is funny to watch
    Imagine that if Dracthyr was put into game in some previous expansion as NPC race only, there would be like thousand threads "Playable Dracthyr allied race when?" already.

    I actually like what we've seen so far, it does not look that bad. They said Dracthyr will have large amount of customizations, even with the option to chose more bulky torso, so I'll wait before we see more of their appearance.

    I got my concerns with the race though. I really don't like the idea of their dragon form being locked from most transmog, which greatly limit how you customize your character in the game. Also, being in dragon form during combat means that all these cool customizations for visage form will not be visible for majority of your gameplay, so it feels like wasted resources. Worgen do not have this issue, since they reuse existing human customizations.

    Also, chosing race for your visage form would be great too. Apparently, dragons can chose their humanoid form, so I wouldn't mind it.

  6. #506
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Imagine that if Dracthyr was put into game in some previous expansion as NPC race only, there would be like thousand threads "Playable Dracthyr allied race when?" already.
    The other side of this I've been wondering about is how people would react to Blizzard adding some of the vanilla races today. Can you imagine the endless bickering about tauren? "Why are they trying to appeal to furries instead of giving us playable ogres?!"

  7. #507
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutineer View Post
    The other side of this I've been wondering about is how people would react to Blizzard adding some of the vanilla races today. Can you imagine the endless bickering about tauren? "Why are they trying to appeal to furries instead of giving us playable ogres?!"
    Yes, most likely... It was the case when they made vulpera playable. Before they announced it, forums were like "Plz make them playable, we need foxes!" and when they announced them, it changed to "omg another furries! It ruins Horde, give us ogres already!"

    So yes. I guess there would be people crying about how tauren are ugly, way too much bulky and bestial and furry service.

  8. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutineer View Post
    The other side of this I've been wondering about is how people would react to Blizzard adding some of the vanilla races today. Can you imagine the endless bickering about tauren? "Why are they trying to appeal to furries instead of giving us playable ogres?!"
    I think a lot of people dislike Dracthyr not bacause of them being furry, but because they are a very specific "tumbler-style" furry.
    Tauren are definately furry. But they look brutal, they may look powerful and cute at the same time. They have good proportions, their look has weight.
    Drathyr on the other hand... They look like they came from deviantart of furaffinity. Their proportions are off. "Breedable" thighs, too long legs, too long neck with too narrow shoulders. This is why a lot of people think that they are not very "draconic", but more like lizards. And they are naked. Naked humanoids, which will always feel weird for a lot of people.

    Furry part of them is not the main problem. The main problem is execution of the model proportions. They have a great theme, a good fantasy loved by a lot of people. But their look fails to fit that theme and fantasy inside Warcraft artstyle.

  9. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutineer View Post
    Can you imagine the endless bickering about tauren? "Why are they trying to appeal to furries instead of giving us playable ogres?!"
    It would be insufferable just like now.

  10. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Most of the "happyness" comes from the "elf" side of the fanbase, that is already getting too much pamper from blizzard in the last decade.

    They should, open the other races as visage forms, yes, even without the customizations, better have something than ahve nothing at all, and maybe eventually, gradually, do the other customizations, they have time and money for that,



    This is most art/model work, it its not supposed to take this long, making other races have the painted scales should not take those many months, neither put the dracthyr to be able to be other classes, major problem is actually fixing the dragon model to use weapons and armor.
    From my own experience in the industry, it's a lot more than just the weapons & armor. If anything, I'd argue the weapons & shields for other classes are perhaps a bit easier than adding in other visage races. In theory, it's largely setting the proper coordinates for various known items while testing outliers, then testing the baseline & casting animations for each class.

    Comparatively for visage race changes, while the scales are likely to just be an extra layer on top of the model (set in a similar fashion to DH tattoos), the trickiness comes in the multiple hair color portion as well as the horns. Adding in the multiple hair color thing becomes somewhat tricky for races like the Vulpera & Worgen where fur covers so much of their bodies. Since most of these are texture based, you have to redo at least part of those textures to be colorless so they can be updated separate from the main texture. Pandaren & Tauren would have similar issues. But you also have to consider how much could get in the way of the dragon horns. Highmountain antlers could be very tricky to maneuver around those horns as could the horns Draenei have on their heads. And as we've seen from past experience, any clipping issues are going to be shared here & on Reddit endlessly with people calling the dev team lazy.

    As far as adding armor, I don't even want to think about the clipping & placement nightmares that could cause at this point, especially combined with the request for other Dracthyr classes.

  11. #511
    Your muscle size doesn't directly correlate with strength as an fyi. That being said all races should have a beefy, fat, and skinny option at the very least.
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  12. #512
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    From my own experience in the industry, it's a lot more than just the weapons & armor. If anything, I'd argue the weapons & shields for other classes are perhaps a bit easier than adding in other visage races. In theory, it's largely setting the proper coordinates for various known items while testing outliers, then testing the baseline & casting animations for each class.

    Comparatively for visage race changes, while the scales are likely to just be an extra layer on top of the model (set in a similar fashion to DH tattoos), the trickiness comes in the multiple hair color portion as well as the horns. Adding in the multiple hair color thing becomes somewhat tricky for races like the Vulpera & Worgen where fur covers so much of their bodies. Since most of these are texture based, you have to redo at least part of those textures to be colorless so they can be updated separate from the main texture. Pandaren & Tauren would have similar issues. But you also have to consider how much could get in the way of the dragon horns. Highmountain antlers could be very tricky to maneuver around those horns as could the horns Draenei have on their heads. And as we've seen from past experience, any clipping issues are going to be shared here & on Reddit endlessly with people calling the dev team lazy.

    As far as adding armor, I don't even want to think about the clipping & placement nightmares that could cause at this point, especially combined with the request for other Dracthyr classes.

    Races that don't have hair don't need dual color options, and it will not be a problem to do that for then. Hell, like i said, they don't even need to add all the customizations fat launch, is something they can do in patches, this is the last of the problems, as people just want other options, even if they don't even have scales.

    cor the clipping thing, this is a problem they should have realized at the design process, this was a fail and now they have to make up for it, the time to "forgive" or "accept" half asset things is long gone, this wasn't a mistake was a flawed designed from the start and no one there had enough competence to point that out

  13. #513
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    No. It fulfills neither fantasy of being a Warcraft dragon, nor the fantasy of being a Warcraft dragonman. It doesn't look like it belong in Warcraft at all, more appropriate to some weird furry flash cartoon you would see on Youtube. And gameplay wise, not being able to tank is a let down.

    This is what we should have gotten:


    Looks too much like a scaly Tauren.

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  14. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dch48 View Post
    They're okay. They might end up being more popular than Demon Hunters or Death Knights but we'll see.
    They will be popular at launch just like everything new is popular at launch.
    But I can't see them being popular in longterm due to their limitations. Unless they are hilariously OP.

  15. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Races that don't have hair don't need dual color options, and it will not be a problem to do that for then. Hell, like i said, they don't even need to add all the customizations fat launch, is something they can do in patches, this is the last of the problems, as people just want other options, even if they don't even have scales.
    You might not think they need all the customizations at launch, but we've already seen how players are when their chosen race doesn't get the same cool items as other races. Look at Heritage Armor for instance. Even though it is there for some races, there are still lots of complaints from other races that don't have it about not having a set/quest line of their own. Even then, there will be complaints about why Blizz chose one race to get the customizations before a different one. Plus, if Blizz is going to add in the other races as visage forms, they will want to do them right...which means the dual color options for all. You may not think they'll need to, but players have a tendency to be quite vocal when the models aren't up to their specific wishes (as shown with the arguments to have them look more muscled & strong).

    cor the clipping thing, this is a problem they should have realized at the design process, this was a fail and now they have to make up for it, the time to "forgive" or "accept" half asset things is long gone, this wasn't a mistake was a flawed designed from the start and no one there had enough competence to point that out
    This isn't a mistake, this is a design decision. There's a major difference between the two. When the Dracthyr were designed & created, they didn't want them to have armor & may or may not have changed their mind. Whether you agree or not & whether this proves to be a good decision or not, going forward with a design they felt would work better for their plans is not a mistake persay. There are good arguments for why they wouldn't have designed the Dracthyr with armor. Can you imagine how weird they would look with a casting robe or one of those valentine's dresses on? Plus There would seem to be a desire for more of an androgynous look which armor could interfere with. If they have armor, that somewhat forces the design into a specific look for some armor (like chest plates that have different male/female look.

  16. #516
    Yep, models look great. Another caster finally, looks amazing all around

  17. #517
    Yeah why not looks like fun Flying with no mount = win too.

  18. #518
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    You might not think they need all the customizations at launch, but we've already seen how players are when their chosen race doesn't get the same cool items as other races. Look at Heritage Armor for instance. Even though it is there for some races, there are still lots of complaints from other races that don't have it about not having a set/quest line of their own. Even then, there will be complaints about why Blizz chose one race to get the customizations before a different one. Plus, if Blizz is going to add in the other races as visage forms, they will want to do them right...which means the dual color options for all. You may not think they'll need to, but players have a tendency to be quite vocal when the models aren't up to their specific wishes (as shown with the arguments to have them look more muscled & strong).
    And what is better? not do other visages, at all, than have other visages as options but without the customizations or with gradualy adding then? cause i can easily see what is the better path of action here, better some people happy than no one happy

    And like i said, if you don't have hair, you can't have dual color hair, is simple

    And don't come with me by saying "if they wanna do they wanna do right" you are 10 years later.

    This isn't a mistake, this is a design decision. There's a major difference between the two. When the Dracthyr were designed & created, they didn't want them to have armor & may or may not have changed their mind. Whether you agree or not & whether this proves to be a good decision or not, going forward with a design they felt would work better for their plans is not a mistake persay.
    A design decision that failed is a mistake. the design was flawed because they did a lot of bad things in the process of it

    It Failed and flawed because its half-asset, lacking, borderline lazy, contradictory, and the lore is bad written

    There are good arguments for why they wouldn't have designed the Dracthyr with armor. Can you imagine how weird they would look with a casting robe or one of those valentine's dresses on? Plus There would seem to be a desire for more of an androgynous look which armor could interfere with. If they have armor, that somewhat forces the design into a specific look for some armor (like chest plates that have different male/female look
    If they are going to look bad why don't you design then thinking about the armor in the design process as well? is like buying a wardrobe, without looking if it fits your room, then putting in the kitchen cause its the only place that does.

    Failed design.

  19. #519
    eh. I'd really like to see more specs added to existing classes than half baked new classes. If people enjoy playing one, more power to them.

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