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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by cityguy193 View Post
    A lot of ex-wow players exist.
    And only a very small fraction plays FFXIV, if for no other reason that the active FFXIV playerbase is smaller than the group of ex-WoW players by at least one order of magnitude.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    On one hand; I get your point and agree with you. But..! On the other hand, no one liked Warfronts (besides me it seems), no one liked Island Expeditions until half-way through BFA and no one liked Torghast until half-way through, and the legendary system didn't seem to have that many fans either. So since all of these seems to be considered failures, it's obvious that Blizzard are thinking "Screw it, back to basic gameplay then!".
    I never had a single issue with Warfronts, I know some people would prefer to have them in PvP but I don't think the issue was just "oh players didn't like it" because they had plans to do more Warfronts in later patches (based off of datamining) and some of them were plans for Warfronts in the Barrens, Eversong Forest... The big issue with making a Warfront is the fact that they'd have to update an old zone as aa result to match. Between this, Island expeditions, Nazjatar, Mechagon, N'zoth, along with the war campaign that has unnecessarily fully animated CG cinematics that could've been done with just in-game cutscenes... There wasn't much of time or budget to keep it going.

    Island Expeditions, the issue with that one was how short they felt. Normal it would be done in 5 minutes at most while in Mythic it could take about 15 minutes.. and the PvP aspect is really more of a race to pull everything and kill large groups before everyone else. Though it isn't like they stopped after that point since they added more maps and what not in 9.1 (or was it 9.2) Though the rewards were nice especially the reputation weekly and the extra stuff like pets and mounts and transmog.

    Torghast, on the other hand, had a lot going for it, but the rewards just didn't feel worth it in my eyes. All you get is Soul Ashes and sometimes a legendary depending on which route you took but that was it. A large part of it is to do with the whole aesthetic of the place, it was cool and intimidating at the start of the expansion, but we've gotten so used to it by now that it gets watered down. At least with Horrific Visions, Warfronts, and Island Expeditions there was a vendor that you could buy additional mounts and other stuff... Torghast doesn't have that outside of Ve'nari selling you buffs (but all that is from doing stuff in the Maw, not Torghast)

  3. #103
    Ur saying it will be a solo system in Dragonflight but is there ANY evidence for this in any interviews from the Blizzard employees?

    I think they still don't know how to make the non-raider/3v3er/M+er enjoy Dragonflight.

  4. #104
    I'm a little sad every time they abandon a concept instead of making it better. I'd like to see these things, or iterations of similar concepts, kept around.

    Really curious to see what they do with professions.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    We will have no legendaries. No "expansion system" like Islands/Thorghast/Warfronts.

    Is really having some work done on talents and professions a good excuse for this?

    At 70, what are we farming outside of new mount customizations?

    At least they tried making something new and fun in the past few expansions. This expansion, we get nothing.

    Let me paint a picture of this expansions endgame. You have some reputations to farm to get some toys/transmogs. Then you have some world quests. Outside of this, you're supposed to want to do M+/Raiding/3v3 arenas. Don't like that? Too bad, they spent all their focus to make the ugly dragon race and the talent system you already decided on when you looked up the best spec on Icy-veins in the prepatch before the expansion released.
    Oh no. No box features like the ones that didn’t really live up. What is the marketing team gonna do?!?!

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Void Priest View Post
    I'm a little sad every time they abandon a concept instead of making it better. I'd like to see these things, or iterations of similar concepts, kept around.

    Really curious to see what they do with professions.
    Most concepts are doomed from the start... as for professions they are just going to make them take a bunch of time to make more then one item to try and encourage trade.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    We will have no legendaries. No "expansion system" like Islands/Thorghast/Warfronts.

    Is really having some work done on talents and professions a good excuse for this?

    At 70, what are we farming outside of new mount customizations?

    At least they tried making something new and fun in the past few expansions. This expansion, we get nothing.

    Let me paint a picture of this expansions endgame. You have some reputations to farm to get some toys/transmogs. Then you have some world quests. Outside of this, you're supposed to want to do M+/Raiding/3v3 arenas. Don't like that? Too bad, they spent all their focus to make the ugly dragon race and the talent system you already decided on when you looked up the best spec on Icy-veins in the prepatch before the expansion released.
    yep its worth it, its worth to have functional classes again, a talent tree that isnt DOA and not having to grind all kinds of horrible and unbalanced system (corruption grind anyone?). I for once looking forward to actually be able to play alts aswell for once and you know, play when i want instead of being forced 24/7 to play beacuse otherwise ill fall behind or will struggle alot. i dont want to have to wait almost a full expansion for them to fix things that should been at the release. But then again im a oldschool player, i liked how it was in wrath/cata/mop days, simple times where the only borrowed power i needed to worry about was tier sets. yes i know mop had the legendary back (which they removed for some wierd reason). overall those expansions i could play at my own leisure and play alts without wanting to claw my eyes out in frustration.

  8. #108
    Repeatable single player/small group finder scenarios is a fun concept. Especially if the rewards are there and if the process of grinding is enjoyable. Case in point, taking the time to grind the 1000 doubloons to get the albatross mount. Islands after they added the vendor was almost perfect. You do the weekly requirement for the bonus, and if you wanted to grind more doubloons you still can. The number of doubloons we got can be tiny and iffy. But it's still an enjoyable time sink. It's a simple concept and simple game play. Just pull the island and kill mobs. Earn coins, buy stuff. Easy dumb fun.

    Would really love to have that back again in some form.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    I never had a single issue with Warfronts, I know some people would prefer to have them in PvP but I don't think the issue was just "oh players didn't like it" because they had plans to do more Warfronts in later patches (based off of datamining) and some of them were plans for Warfronts in the Barrens, Eversong Forest... The big issue with making a Warfront is the fact that they'd have to update an old zone as aa result to match. Between this, Island expeditions, Nazjatar, Mechagon, N'zoth, along with the war campaign that has unnecessarily fully animated CG cinematics that could've been done with just in-game cutscenes... There wasn't much of time or budget to keep it going.

    Island Expeditions, the issue with that one was how short they felt. Normal it would be done in 5 minutes at most while in Mythic it could take about 15 minutes.. and the PvP aspect is really more of a race to pull everything and kill large groups before everyone else. Though it isn't like they stopped after that point since they added more maps and what not in 9.1 (or was it 9.2) Though the rewards were nice especially the reputation weekly and the extra stuff like pets and mounts and transmog.

    Torghast, on the other hand, had a lot going for it, but the rewards just didn't feel worth it in my eyes. All you get is Soul Ashes and sometimes a legendary depending on which route you took but that was it. A large part of it is to do with the whole aesthetic of the place, it was cool and intimidating at the start of the expansion, but we've gotten so used to it by now that it gets watered down. At least with Horrific Visions, Warfronts, and Island Expeditions there was a vendor that you could buy additional mounts and other stuff... Torghast doesn't have that outside of Ve'nari selling you buffs (but all that is from doing stuff in the Maw, not Torghast)
    Personally I liked Warfronts (well at least Arathi...), but they weren't well recieved, that's why we only got those two.

    People didn't like Islands either because of the endless AP grind and the odd logic behind drop rates - both were fixed but way too late.

    Torghast suffered from odd class balancing and again, no actual reward structure until way too late.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  10. #110
    As players we might not realise how much resources Blizzard sunk into developing islands and warfronts. These ideas need research, trial and error, whole new systems have to be invented for it. To then see players hardly take part in it, or only if bribed with shiny items, must be a major blow to them.

    And that's the problem with trying to come up with new things for a game. How many familiar quests, dungeons, battlegrounds or even whole new zones could have been built with the allocated budgets for Warfronts and Islands? That's the call Blizzard has to make.

    It's not all a sunk cost either though. Islands turned into Thorgast, and procedural gameplay is still going to be the future of MMO's, so this is definitely going to be continued at some point.

    Warfronts too are a prototype of something else. They're dynamic territories. It's not difficult to imagine a Warfront in an open-world, requiring days or even an entire week to complete. Just a zone under a constant change. Other people might be doing quests or whatever in that same zone, but they too will be affected by how the scenario slowly progresses.

    These are all experiments that might not be worthwhile in isolated parts of the game, but the lessons Blizzard draws from these can permeate into the rest of the game.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    so far they have said the reputations are all linked to a single renown which is timegated like in shadowlands. DF will be a very straight forward raid logging expansion.
    They said it was *not* timegated, as there is not player power tied to it. Was in that Q&A thing Ion did with Taliesen

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Personally I liked Warfronts (well at least Arathi...), but they weren't well recieved, that's why we only got those two.

    People didn't like Islands either because of the endless AP grind and the odd logic behind drop rates - both were fixed but way too late.

    Torghast suffered from odd class balancing and again, no actual reward structure until way too late.
    Eh, I think people were expecting for the Warfronts to have a PVP element, but if you really think about it.. there is that faction imbalance issue, and it might be the reason why Blizz isn't doing those Epic BGs like Wintergrasp or Ashran anymore so that one faction won't hold constant occupation of it. Even if they kept it as it was in-game but with an added PvP mode, it probably would have a lot more issues with it... I'm not saying it was a missed opportunity, more like they probably wanted to try PvP, but something happened that just didn't work for it.

    Actually the drop rates in Island Expeditions were more confusing after they fixed it. Originally you could've had a good chance by killing a specific set of enemies, but instead they changed it up to be more RNG based but they added in a vendor which was a plus, but it was still RNG. The AP grind was unnecessary (I'm wasn't even one of the types that really cared about the whole "AP = Player Power" deals.) When I first did it, it just felt lackluster because of how short the bar you filled up was. So I avoided it because of just that... least until I ran out of things to do.... that and also player opinion had a factor in it.

    Torghast, on the other hand, it just felt exhausting to do. Like they could've had all the bosses drop specific covenant toys, mounts, or even the cosmetic covenant gear could've been hidden away instead of...putting all that stuff into those side covenant stuff like Stitchmasters, the Fungus thing, and the Trials of Loyalty.

  13. #113
    Good. This was basically the whole point of the expansions features; to work on the games core systems and not expansion exclusive bloat that we lose in two years time.

    Think of it like building a house. You can build the most amazing house ever, with ten bedrooms all with en suite bathrooms, a massive dining room and kitchen, living room, your own cinema room with bar and wine cellar, and a three tier swimming pool overlooking the sunset. But, if your foundations are shit, your wiring is fucked, and your plumbing just pipes in raw sewage, you have a house that no one wants that will collapse in a few years.

    This is Blizz attempting to fix the foundations of the house of WoW.

  14. #114
    Thank gut - remove all these systems, back to basics...good gear loop and progression that matters!
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  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    We will have no legendaries. No "expansion system" like Islands/Thorghast/Warfronts.

    Is really having some work done on talents and professions a good excuse for this?

    At 70, what are we farming outside of new mount customizations?

    At least they tried making something new and fun in the past few expansions. This expansion, we get nothing.

    Let me paint a picture of this expansions endgame. You have some reputations to farm to get some toys/transmogs. Then you have some world quests. Outside of this, you're supposed to want to do M+/Raiding/3v3 arenas. Don't like that? Too bad, they spent all their focus to make the ugly dragon race and the talent system you already decided on when you looked up the best spec on Icy-veins in the prepatch before the expansion released.
    and you think that’s a bad thing?

    At 70, what are we farming outside of new mount customizations?

    This question implies we WANT that „farming“. i don’t know if you heard the news. or if you read even anything the last 5 years. but it looks like, that „some“ ppls not enjoy that type and amount of farming and grinding that much. to use some tame words.

    short version: ppls don’t want a Mega-Pint of grind.

    but but but what i shall do then?“ you may ask.
    A: maybe the same things (alts, pvp, pet battles, achievements, etc) the ppl, asking for that change, wanna finally have time for, instead of grinding their ass of. play another class and have fun with it. after that you can have fun, with NOT doing all that grindshit again and again and again.
    Last edited by Niwes; 2022-05-01 at 07:20 PM.

  16. #116
    Having a system to grind for power -> bad
    Having a system to grind for cosmetics -> bad
    Having a system to grind for optional stuff -> bad

    Having no grind from the above categories- > bad
    Having one grind from the above categories -> bad
    Having two grinds from the above categories- > bad
    Having three grinds from the above categories- > bad

    Having only m+ -> bad
    Having only pvp -> bad
    Having only raid -> bad

    Havon two -> bad
    Having three -> bad

    Getting stuff for free -> bad
    Having to do the most difficult tier to get the best -> bad

    Just pick one, add some opinions to it, call it a fact and there you go, your new thread

  17. #117
    You know the game is fucked beyond repair when this many people start arguing that Blizzard is bad at making content so less content is good.

  18. #118
    Islands/Torghast/Warfronts are not systems but features, stuff for people to do outside the usual dungeons/raiding/pvp. I don't see anything new coming with Dragonflight which is rather worrying. Don't care much for systems but after having a few expansions of them going completely overboard I'm glad that they are taking a break from it.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    You know the game is fucked beyond repair when this many people start arguing that Blizzard is bad at making content so less content is good.
    It is the truth of it though. Islands for as great of a source for transmogs were little more then here simulators for azerite. Warfront seemed benign to me not good but bad. While torghast was pathetic a long slog with overly tanky mobs that had one spell or 2 If a boss.

    When all you do is fuck up doing nothing is an improvement. There last win was arguably mage tower or visions if you squint.

  20. #120
    I don't see how some features from previous expansions flopping means they shouldn't make new features. This is some new era logic.
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Blizzard do what the players want all the time.

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