No replacement for Thorghast/Islands/Warfronts/Legendary systems

[stomination]

We will have no legendaries. No "expansion system" like Islands/Thorghast/Warfronts.

Is really having some work done on talents and professions a good excuse for this?

At 70, what are we farming outside of new mount customizations?

At least they tried making something new and fun in the past few expansions. This expansion, we get nothing.

Let me paint a picture of this expansions endgame. You have some reputations to farm to get some toys/transmogs. Then you have some world quests. Outside of this, you're supposed to want to do M+/Raiding/3v3 arenas. Don't like that? Too bad, they spent all their focus to make the ugly dragon race and the talent system you already decided on when you looked up the best spec on Icy-veins in the prepatch before the expansion released.

I know part of my hiatus was the legendary system they had in legion. Its not a very good system if only 2 legendaries were good and you didnt get it as early as the others in your class.

Game survives for years without islands thorghast and warfronts too.

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Yeah the true reason to remove borrowed power systems actually simply is to remove components they would have to design content for. Who would have thought that.

The devs once again simply save development effort rather than implementing useful gameplay with proper gearing progression.

Borrow power systems are always a problem. it creates a chore rather than a game.

[cparle87]

Not all that surprising given the crap-tons of shit that have been dumped on "systems" generally in Warcraft. All of those listed have come in for their share. So, out they go.

Whether or not there will be new stuff announced remains to be seen. It's still pretty early. At this point it's simple to say what's not going go forward. They can and frankly should play their cards close to the vest on new stuff that's still in development lest it be considered as "promises."

So much truth. Wish I could quote for truth more than once.

Systems has pretty much become a dirty word among a vocal section of the playerbase. Also promises.

[Konteil]

Not all that surprising given the crap-tons of shit that have been dumped on "systems" generally in Warcraft. All of those listed have come in for their share. So, out they go.

Whether or not there will be new stuff announced remains to be seen. It's still pretty early. At this point it's simple to say what's not going go forward. They can and frankly should play their cards close to the vest on new stuff that's still in development lest it be considered as "promises."

i agree with this assessment. there is zero reason at this point to go into details about any systems they are working on till they know they will work as intended. last thing they need a this point is another fiasco like happened in WOD where they pretty much abandoned an entire zone and faction hub because they couldnt make it work for whatever reason it was.

[Veya30]

We will have no legendaries. No "expansion system" like Islands/Thorghast/Warfronts.

Is really having some work done on talents and professions a good excuse for this?

At 70, what are we farming outside of new mount customizations?

At least they tried making something new and fun in the past few expansions. This expansion, we get nothing.

Let me paint a picture of this expansions endgame. You have some reputations to farm to get some toys/transmogs. Then you have some world quests. Outside of this, you're supposed to want to do M+/Raiding/3v3 arenas. Don't like that? Too bad, they spent all their focus to make the ugly dragon race and the talent system you already decided on when you looked up the best spec on Icy-veins in the prepatch before the expansion released.

I had a feeling this would be a bare bones expansion; a lot of complaints I had read about were people only wanting Raids/M+/PvP and nothing else. I assume we'll get World quests and stuff to unlock more Dragonriding features, but no more extra instance content to do.

[Khaza-R]

Inb4 torghast in patch 10.1 so blizz can pull a "you think you didn't want it, but we know you missed it"

I think they will totally bring it back for Shadowlands TW (shudders) but that won't be until 11.x.

For DF you might see the return of Horrific Visions or Warfronts for TW.

[Finlandia WOAT]

A shame, I liked Corrupted Visions, and Torghast was a few tweaks away from being a good addition. Sucks it seems they're giving up on optional solo dungeons

[Hctaz]

We will have no legendaries. No "expansion system" like Islands/Thorghast/Warfronts.

Is really having some work done on talents and professions a good excuse for this?

At 70, what are we farming outside of new mount customizations?

At least they tried making something new and fun in the past few expansions. This expansion, we get nothing.

Let me paint a picture of this expansions endgame. You have some reputations to farm to get some toys/transmogs. Then you have some world quests. Outside of this, you're supposed to want to do M+/Raiding/3v3 arenas. Don't like that? Too bad, they spent all their focus to make the ugly dragon race and the talent system you already decided on when you looked up the best spec on Icy-veins in the prepatch before the expansion released.

I'm skeptical but hopeful that they can learn from the mistakes of the past systems.

A lot of the things that they've implemented such as World Quests, Islands, Warfronts, and Torghast, AP, etc. were fun little side adventures that they ended up making a mandatory chore for player progression.

I honestly think a lot of those ideas would have been better if they remained entirely optional in terms of the progression of your character. People had a lot of fun with Torghast in the beta before they changed it.

So like... I understand people who want things to do to progress your character, but the game doesn't necessarily need to be about that. I remember the days of old when all of that side content was completely optional, but players did it anyway for one reason or another. Mounts, reputation, achievements, just because it was fun.

Heck, even raiding had this effect when you could only raid one version of the raid. If you did Heroic 10 man ICC, you couldn't also do Normal mode ICC the same week. People used to make a lot of alts and raid for fun, but then we got LFR, Normal, Heroic, and Mythic that you could obtain gear from every week, and many raiders started doing just that on their main characters so... the desire for something to do on your alt kinda diminished when you were already doing the same raid multiple times in the same week.

They should look at making more things to do for fun instead of trying to give you things to do every day to boost your power OR removing them. Like yeah... people hated needing to farm Torgast, but that was only because it wasn't optional. If they made something like Torgast but just made it give cosmetic rewards, you'd have something to do for fun when you have nothing else to do.

[Puri]

I have to admit it reminds me very much of WoD. Three the garrison also on paper had much optional content to offer, but if you didn't care for cosmetics or simply got what was important to you there was not much left to do in the game.
Luckily we have m+ now, so it's not just raidlogging. But I am not yet convinced removing any form of continous, soloable power grind will be good for the game.

[Firefall]

It would be, if we would be getting more dungeons, more raids, more outdoor content (that isn't braindead and actually engaging) and ex more pvp modes. Ain't seeing that so far.

This. It feels like everyone cheering "no more systems" haven't played MoP and prior and just parrot edgy youtubers. There is an extreme lack of content so far, and they're back to "gee I'd love to play some wow tonight but it's not Tuesday lol nothing to do or progress at all." It's empty and hollow.

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I have to admit it reminds me very much of WoD. Three the garrison also on paper had much optional content to offer, but if you didn't care for cosmetics or simply got what was important to you there was not much left to do in the game.
Luckily we have m+ now, so it's not just raidlogging. But I am not yet convinced removing any form of continous, soloable power grind will be good for the game.

^^^ it absolutely is awful for the game, as evidenced by Legion recovering subscribers lost in MoP and WoD. They need to go back to the Legion style, it worked.

[apepi1337]

I enjoy raiding which is a huge part of the wow community. I don't have the time to play 8 hours a night every day anymore. The last few expansions all the mandatory outside of raid activities like renown and legendaries and artifact weapons was just too much for me to keep up with so I unsubbed. I am happy we are going back to the grass roots of wow again!

[Tiev]

We will have no legendaries. No "expansion system" like Islands/Thorghast/Warfronts.
.

Yes. It's amazing. It's how it should be. Paint that picture very often, please.

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I'm skeptical but hopeful that they can learn from the mistakes of the past systems.

A lot of the things that they've implemented such as World Quests, Islands, Warfronts, and Torghast, AP, etc. were fun little side adventures that they ended up making a mandatory chore for player progression.

I honestly think a lot of those ideas would have been better if they remained entirely optional in terms of the progression of your character. People had a lot of fun with Torghast in the beta before they changed it.

So like... I understand people who want things to do to progress your character, but the game doesn't necessarily need to be about that. I remember the days of old when all of that side content was completely optional, but players did it anyway for one reason or another. Mounts, reputation, achievements, just because it was fun.

Heck, even raiding had this effect when you could only raid one version of the raid. If you did Heroic 10 man ICC, you couldn't also do Normal mode ICC the same week. People used to make a lot of alts and raid for fun, but then we got LFR, Normal, Heroic, and Mythic that you could obtain gear from every week, and many raiders started doing just that on their main characters so... the desire for something to do on your alt kinda diminished when you were already doing the same raid multiple times in the same week.

They should look at making more things to do for fun instead of trying to give you things to do every day to boost your power OR removing them. Like yeah... people hated needing to farm Torgast, but that was only because it wasn't optional. If they made something like Torgast but just made it give cosmetic rewards, you'd have something to do for fun when you have nothing else to do.

I agree with this so much. You used to do things because they were fun. Now you do them because the game is designed around addiction

[saixilein]

I guess im finally able to play more then 2 characters, because i dont have to grind this daylie/weekly shit, because i dont gain any big Power from it.

I really dont need any grind/farm. Just let me play my characters

[schwank05]

We will have no legendaries. No "expansion system" like Islands/Thorghast/Warfronts.

Is really having some work done on talents and professions a good excuse for this?

At 70, what are we farming outside of new mount customizations?

At least they tried making something new and fun in the past few expansions. This expansion, we get nothing.

Let me paint a picture of this expansions endgame. You have some reputations to farm to get some toys/transmogs. Then you have some world quests. Outside of this, you're supposed to want to do M+/Raiding/3v3 arenas. Don't like that? Too bad, they spent all their focus to make the ugly dragon race and the talent system you already decided on when you looked up the best spec on Icy-veins in the prepatch before the expansion released.

Gear, Thank God finally we can get back to WOW being wow and let gear be gear, my only hope is the kill off personal loot and let bosses actually drop gear again. One can only hope we are finally headed in the right direction.

[FuxieDK]

Dragon flying....Duh. In all seriousness I highly doubt Blizzard would leave us nothing to grind on. They will probably just make the reputations take 3 times longer than normal.

So, we will only get 3 rep from killing rares, compared to the current 10?

[Hctaz]

I agree with this so much. You used to do things because they were fun. Now you do them because the game is designed around addiction

Mhmm! The part that blows my mind is that there are people who defend it like it's somehow a better game because you have access to all of these things?

Like I totally get the idea that a non-raider wants to progress the power of their character, but those two things don't need to necessarily conflict with each other.
The way they handle PvP gear is a good example I think. The PvP gear changes based on whether you're actively engaged in PvP content.

I'd rather see more things implemented like that so you can focus on the type of content you enjoy and then the other stuff can be fun side options to pursue outside of the main content. Also more side content should be entirely optional like that example I gave with Torgast. A roguelite/like style tower to climb up is a fun concept all by itself. Let the content sink or swim based on how enjoyable it is, not based on it being a weekly chore to grind for Artifact Power or Legendary items or something.

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I guess im finally able to play more then 2 characters, because i dont have to grind shit with all of them daylie/weekly, because i dont gain any big Power.

I really dont need any grind/farm. Just let me play my characters

THIS. Again! LOL
I said it in this thread already, but I used to enjoy pugging raids on my alts. I would link my Heroic/Mythic kills from my main and then tank on my paladin alt and it was a fun time, plus it helped inject tanks into the ecosystem who were familiar with the raid mechanics. I think that's a pretty big benefit for the pug scene in general.

Now there's so many grinds you need to do to remain relevant that you either can't have a number of reliably strong alts or you're just too burnt out from doing all the grinding on your main to even want to do them all again on an alt LOL

[Tiev]

Mhmm! The part that blows my mind is that there are people who defend it like it's somehow a better game because you have access to all of these things?

Like I totally get the idea that a non-raider wants to progress the power of their character, but those two things don't need to necessarily conflict with each other.
The way they handle PvP gear is a good example I think. The PvP gear changes based on whether you're actively engaged in PvP content.

I'd rather see more things implemented like that so you can focus on the type of content you enjoy and then the other stuff can be fun side options to pursue outside of the main content. Also more side content should be entirely optional like that example I gave with Torgast. A roguelite/like style tower to climb up is a fun concept all by itself. Let the content sink or swim based on how enjoyable it is, not based on it being a weekly chore to grind for Artifact Power or Legendary items or something.

If you're addicted to something, you'd also be very opposed to its removal. The hard part is being able to honestly determine if you're against the removal because they were positive things or because of said addiction.

[huth]

Obviously even the gameplay was borrowed, or do you see any use for it in Dragonflight up to now? While borrowed power always refers to rewards from gameplay. Probably you should get your terms correctly first.

You talked about borrowed power, not borrowed gameplay. So you violated your own definitions.

[Polybius]

If it means redirecting those efforts into outdoor content I’m all for it.

[kamuimac]

We will have no legendaries. No "expansion system" like Islands/Thorghast/Warfronts.

Is really having some work done on talents and professions a good excuse for this?

At 70, what are we farming outside of new mount customizations?

At least they tried making something new and fun in the past few expansions. This expansion, we get nothing.

Let me paint a picture of this expansions endgame. You have some reputations to farm to get some toys/transmogs. Then you have some world quests. Outside of this, you're supposed to want to do M+/Raiding/3v3 arenas. Don't like that? Too bad, they spent all their focus to make the ugly dragon race and the talent system you already decided on when you looked up the best spec on Icy-veins in the prepatch before the expansion released.

well you are coming out of SL. most failed expasnion ever which already limited content for causal playerbase and only catering to top 5% so what exackly do you expect ? they dont even bother with releasing 8 new dungeons in m+ only they are rehashing old dungeons.

so most likely yes. if you dont like pushing m+ and raids your only choice is ignoring wow and sticking to playing FF14.

tbh i strongly think that in 1.5 years when 10.0 will launch a lot of people wont return to wow only will stick to FF14. and they may come back for month or 2 when all the timegates are gone.

in my eyes 10.0 is the expansion switching game to maitnance mode. they decided its time to end wow for good.

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Mhmm! The part that blows my mind is that there are people who defend it like it's somehow a better game because you have access to all of these things?

Like I totally get the idea that a non-raider wants to progress the power of their character, but those two things don't need to necessarily conflict with each other.
The way they handle PvP gear is a good example I think. The PvP gear changes based on whether you're actively engaged in PvP content.

I'd rather see more things implemented like that so you can focus on the type of content you enjoy and then the other stuff can be fun side options to pursue outside of the main content. Also more side content should be entirely optional like that example I gave with Torgast. A roguelite/like style tower to climb up is a fun concept all by itself. Let the content sink or swim based on how enjoyable it is, not based on it being a weekly chore to grind for Artifact Power or Legendary items or something.

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THIS. Again! LOL
I said it in this thread already, but I used to enjoy pugging raids on my alts. I would link my Heroic/Mythic kills from my main and then tank on my paladin alt and it was a fun time, plus it helped inject tanks into the ecosystem who were familiar with the raid mechanics. I think that's a pretty big benefit for the pug scene in general.

Now there's so many grinds you need to do to remain relevant that you either can't have a number of reliably strong alts or you're just too burnt out from doing all the grinding on your main to even want to do them all again on an alt LOL

i wonder where you people see those grinds honestly .

and i say it from persepctive of person who this tier is doing literaly 1 dungeon a week on 12 alts and most of them are already doing 13-15 because last tier they were just doing 15s. (only reason they are not all doing 15s now is because depletion of keys exist and you cannot realisticaly farm up high score with 1 dungeon a week - yet tryhards dont have problem with score in game - which is 100 times more grindy then anything this expansion )

the most grindy part i had this tier was doing zm 12 times for belts. but since i work from home i did it like 30 minutes a day over a month time during work

same in legion and bfa i farmed nothing and had no problem to m+ on all alts.

[shade3891]

Same here I enjoyed Thorghast, maybe they can do a reversed infinite Dragon Tower for us to climb down!
Player needs to figure out where the tremors came from that woke Rocky.

Anima Spheres => Forgotten magic ^^