No replacement for Thorghast/Islands/Warfronts/Legendary systems

[Polybius]

well you are coming out of SL. most failed expasnion ever which already limited content for causal playerbase and only catering to top 5% so what exackly do you expect ? they dont even bother with releasing 8 new dungeons in m+ only they are rehashing old dungeons.

so most likely yes. if you dont like pushing m+ and raids your only choice is ignoring wow and sticking to playing FF14.

tbh i strongly think that in 1.5 years when 10.0 will launch a lot of people wont return to wow only will stick to FF14. and they may come back for month or 2 when all the timegates are gone.

in my eyes 10.0 is the expansion switching game to maitnance mode. they decided its time to end wow for good.

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i wonder where you people see those grinds honestly .

and i say it from persepctive of person who this tier is doing literaly 1 dungeon a week on 12 alts and most of them are already doing 13-15 because last tier they were just doing 15s. (only reason they are not all doing 15s now is because depletion of keys exist and you cannot realisticaly farm up high score with 1 dungeon a week - yet tryhards dont have problem with score in game - which is 100 times more grindy then anything this expansion )

the most grindy part i had this tier was doing zm 12 times for belts. but since i work from home i did it like 30 minutes a day over a month time during work

same in legion and bfa i farmed nothing and had no problem to m+ on all alts.

They were talking about raiding, which has been the least rewarding for this expansion save for Sepulcher. In BfA you had to upgrade Azerite and Azerite powers (via questing, bgs, etc) if you wanted your gameplay to feel on par with difficulty.

More gameplay for less reward if we compare it to your sample of 12 alts (6 hrs minimum per week)

[Itisamuh]

I know for my part that not having a Torghast equivalent already makes me not very interested in Dragonflight at the moment. That was easily the best content ever added to the game in my eyes. It honestly baffles me that some dislike it.

[Hctaz]

well you are coming out of SL. most failed expasnion ever which already limited content for causal playerbase and only catering to top 5% so what exackly do you expect ? they dont even bother with releasing 8 new dungeons in m+ only they are rehashing old dungeons.

so most likely yes. if you dont like pushing m+ and raids your only choice is ignoring wow and sticking to playing FF14.

tbh i strongly think that in 1.5 years when 10.0 will launch a lot of people wont return to wow only will stick to FF14. and they may come back for month or 2 when all the timegates are gone.

in my eyes 10.0 is the expansion switching game to maitnance mode. they decided its time to end wow for good.

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i wonder where you people see those grinds honestly .

and i say it from persepctive of person who this tier is doing literaly 1 dungeon a week on 12 alts and most of them are already doing 13-15 because last tier they were just doing 15s. (only reason they are not all doing 15s now is because depletion of keys exist and you cannot realisticaly farm up high score with 1 dungeon a week - yet tryhards dont have problem with score in game - which is 100 times more grindy then anything this expansion )

the most grindy part i had this tier was doing zm 12 times for belts. but since i work from home i did it like 30 minutes a day over a month time during work

same in legion and bfa i farmed nothing and had no problem to m+ on all alts.

I'll be honest and admit that some of the grind is probably due to the way I prefer to play the game, it's just that it wasn't an issue prior to Legion.
I'll also admit I am not familiar with the current state of the game necessarily, I only know that there are some grinds that remain, though they might not be as bad as in Legion.

BUT

In Legion there were numerous grinds you needed to do on your main to remain relevant in the first place.
Grinding AP which meant farming M+ in the beginning and then farming world quests after Maw of Souls was nerfed.
Farming for legendary items which typically required you to complete the daily emissary caches on top of of course Mythic+ farming to get lucky.
Titanforged gear from M+ to circumvent some of the possible bad RNG you were encountering in your raids.
Farming lower difficulty of raids. Even throughout Mythic progression, we would start our weeks by full clearing Heroic mode and sometimes Normal mode if Tier or specific trinkets were relevant. Heroic mode farm didn't stop ever due to the fact that gear could roll up to and beyond Mythic quality gear. I even ended up getting my BiS trinket from LFR Antorus, and it happened to roll like +50 ilvls which made it the equivalent to getting a Mythic version +5 ilvls. I didn't run LFR often, but the fact that could have even happened only made some raiders farm every single difficulty of a raid every week.

Not to mention early on when you needed to farm your order hall resources in order to progress your Artifact Knowledge.

So, by the time I was done doing all of this nonsense, I really didn't feel like doing a lot of it again. They nerfed a lot of the grinds as they went on, but playing Legion from Day 1 was brutal. Extremely alt unfriendly with how rare legendary items were and how you needed to grind artifact power.

[Woggmer]

so far they have said the reputations are all linked to a single renown which is timegated like in shadowlands. DF will be a very straight forward raid logging expansion.

Actually, in recent interviews, they said it isn't a weekly thing like Shadowlands.

[kaminaris]

If it means redirecting those efforts into outdoor content I’m all for it.

No, that means less work for blizzard and less content for you.

Alternative gameplay modes are good, if not forced and iterated upon (not abandoned right after expansion or even mid). Shame blizzard failed both checkboxes.

[saixilein]

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THIS. Again! LOL
I said it in this thread already, but I used to enjoy pugging raids on my alts. I would link my Heroic/Mythic kills from my main and then tank on my paladin alt and it was a fun time, plus it helped inject tanks into the ecosystem who were familiar with the raid mechanics. I think that's a pretty big benefit for the pug scene in general.

Now there's so many grinds you need to do to remain relevant that you either can't have a number of reliably strong alts or you're just too burnt out from doing all the grinding on your main to even want to do them all again on an alt LOL

Exactly. In Cata/MoP/WoD/Legion i just played 4-5 Chars at once, mostly pvp. Back then you just hit max level, wipe & grind for 10 hours Battlegrounds/Arenas and you are done for the rest of the season. And when a new Seasons starts you have good gear anyway so it wont take to much time to catch up.

And PvE Grinds where "Just" for some enchants, or a strong trinket to start with. (except legion)

[Hctaz]

Exactly. In Cata/MoP/WoD/Legion i just played 4-5 Chars at once, mostly pvp. Back then you just hit max level, wipe & grind for 10 hours Battlegrounds/Arenas and you are done for the rest of the season. And when a new Seasons starts you have good gear anyway so it wont take to much time to catch up.

And PvE Grinds where "Just" for some enchants, or a strong trinket to start with. (except legion)

Even priot to Cata/MoP. I don't know if you played before then, but like... Even Classic WoW and Classic TBC (and Wrath though that was the expansion I started with so I don't want to lump nostalgia in there for me) was mostly like... you get attuned for raid, and then it's like... you farm gold for consumes. But the thing with that which I find more enjoyable is the fact that gold is a universal currency and the farms are entirely determined by the market value. Boosting in instances aside (which I'm not a fan of) the open world had a lot of places that were interesting farming locations, and the entire thing was determined by the player's choice.

Maybe you can't play Monday because you work and then you have to take your daughter to soccer practice or something, but you can play a few hours Tuesday and you can spend like 6 hours on and off on a Saturday. You can also grind ahead of gold, or you can even just have the guild farm resources together to help spot you if you fall behind. Not the case with the stuff like Artifact Power in Legion though really I mean... If you fall short of that grind you're just falling short. No guildies to help lend you some.

[Lucetia]

We will have no legendaries. No "expansion system" like Islands/Thorghast/Warfronts.

Is really having some work done on talents and professions a good excuse for this?

At 70, what are we farming outside of new mount customizations?

At least they tried making something new and fun in the past few expansions. This expansion, we get nothing.

This pretty much sums up the WoW community I swear.

WoW Community: (In Legion) Blizzard no more systems or constant grinds.
Blizzard: No, we will now transfer AP grind from weapon to neck and add in islands. That works, yes?
WoW Community: No. No more islands or AP grind.
Blizzard: Alright, how about we do an anima grind for cosmetic stuff only? We'll change islands to Torghast. This is better?
WoW Community: LISTEN HERE BLIZZARD WE SAID NO GRINDS OR SPECIAL SCENARIO TYPE THINGS! WE DEMAND YOU TO LISTEN TO US!!!
Blizzard: Alright, there will be expansion long grind and no special scenarios.
WoW Community: WTF BLIZZARD WHY ARE YOU NOT PUTTING A GRIND OR SPECIAL EVENT IN? GAH YOU DON'T EVEN LISTEN AND JUST WANT US TO QUIT.
Blizzard: *facepalm*

Yes, not everyone says this, but enough of the forum community does.

[Darkscar23]

---

Ok

We will have no legendaries. No "expansion system" like Islands/Thorghast/Warfronts.

Is really having some work done on talents and professions a good excuse for this?

At 70, what are we farming outside of new mount customizations?

At least they tried making something new and fun in the past few expansions. This expansion, we get nothing.

Let me paint a picture of this expansions endgame. You have some reputations to farm to get some toys/transmogs. Then you have some world quests. Outside of this, you're supposed to want to do M+/Raiding/3v3 arenas. Don't like that? Too bad, they spent all their focus to make the ugly dragon race and the talent system you already decided on when you looked up the best spec on Icy-veins in the prepatch before the expansion released.

Honestly they could with torghast and island expositions what they did with mage tower. Make it evergreen and add new transmogs or mounts and new mobs or bossess every once in a while. Maybe that would satiate some people who want that type of content.

[saixilein]

Even priot to Cata/MoP. I don't know if you played before then, but like... Even Classic WoW and Classic TBC (and Wrath though that was the expansion I started with so I don't want to lump nostalgia in there for me) was mostly like... you get attuned for raid, and then it's like... you farm gold for consumes. But the thing with that which I find more enjoyable is the fact that gold is a universal currency and the farms are entirely determined by the market value. Boosting in instances aside (which I'm not a fan of) the open world had a lot of places that were interesting farming locations, and the entire thing was determined by the player's choice.

Maybe you can't play Monday because you work and then you have to take your daughter to soccer practice or something, but you can play a few hours Tuesday and you can spend like 6 hours on and off on a Saturday. You can also grind ahead of gold, or you can even just have the guild farm resources together to help spot you if you fall behind. Not the case with the stuff like Artifact Power in Legion though really I mean... If you fall short of that grind you're just falling short. No guildies to help lend you some.

I started with wotlk around 9.2 i guess. Back then my mindset was ofc different. I just played. But when u was looking for what i have to do i just farm heroic dungeons, biught gear with the Badges and start raiding. I was bad in pvp, like stucking in 1.3, but end wotlk/start cata i watched many swifty videos that helped me alot. He made many guides and how to play videos and in first cata season i hit almost 2.2... i am still soad i missed the mark by 2 points. I really wanna have this warrior s9 elite gear... Haha.

And in cata you just played aswell. If u didnt do rep farming all u lost are cosmetics and some minor powerups.

[kamuimac]

They were talking about raiding, which has been the least rewarding for this expansion save for Sepulcher. In BfA you had to upgrade Azerite and Azerite powers (via questing, bgs, etc) if you wanted your gameplay to feel on par with difficulty.

More gameplay for less reward if we compare it to your sample of 12 alts (6 hrs minimum per week)

ye next to nobody playing wow cares about raiding at this point

its only devs and their unhealthy fascination with raiding which keeps it in game.

nobody have time to play on schedule in this day and age of gaming. raiding is relic of past and will just keep dying. its unsalvagable at this point. they shoudl jsut drop it in favour of much mroe dungeons each tier.

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Less content that's actually fun and rewarding > More content thats unfun

Technically having to run maw of souls 300+ times was lots of content, but it wasn't fun

Having to grind islands all day was content, who actually was excited

nobody sane was doing that . and if peopel just want to hurt themsleves by playing like madmen i say let them - we are all grown ups so they should know better then to behave like this.

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This pretty much sums up the WoW community I swear.

WoW Community: (In Legion) Blizzard no more systems or constant grinds.
Blizzard: No, we will now transfer AP grind from weapon to neck and add in islands. That works, yes?
WoW Community: No. No more islands or AP grind.
Blizzard: Alright, how about we do an anima grind for cosmetic stuff only? We'll change islands to Torghast. This is better?
WoW Community: LISTEN HERE BLIZZARD WE SAID NO GRINDS OR SPECIAL SCENARIO TYPE THINGS! WE DEMAND YOU TO LISTEN TO US!!!
Blizzard: Alright, there will be expansion long grind and no special scenarios.
WoW Community: WTF BLIZZARD WHY ARE YOU NOT PUTTING A GRIND OR SPECIAL EVENT IN? GAH YOU DON'T EVEN LISTEN AND JUST WANT US TO QUIT.
Blizzard: *facepalm*

Yes, not everyone says this, but enough of the forum community does.

2 different groups of people

1st just want to log in and spam instances

2nd want to play game outside of raiding and instances.

how catering to first one ended we seen in SL. they all quit game after runign the same dungeons 500 times first tier and geting neuseaus from doing so.

[enigma77]

We will have no legendaries. No "expansion system" like Islands/Thorghast/Warfronts.

Is really having some work done on talents and professions a good excuse for this?

At 70, what are we farming outside of new mount customizations?

At least they tried making something new and fun in the past few expansions. This expansion, we get nothing.

Let me paint a picture of this expansions endgame. You have some reputations to farm to get some toys/transmogs. Then you have some world quests. Outside of this, you're supposed to want to do M+/Raiding/3v3 arenas. Don't like that? Too bad, they spent all their focus to make the ugly dragon race and the talent system you already decided on when you looked up the best spec on Icy-veins in the prepatch before the expansion released.

There will be a progression system.

[cityguy193]

There were none of those systems in Vanilla/Wrath or BC.

I thought the legendary system in MOP was the best iteration, and even then I would have preferred without it or if it was account wide.

[Goat7]

We will have no legendaries. No "expansion system" like Islands/Thorghast/Warfronts.

Is really having some work done on talents and professions a good excuse for this?

At 70, what are we farming outside of new mount customizations?

At least they tried making something new and fun in the past few expansions. This expansion, we get nothing.

Let me paint a picture of this expansions endgame. You have some reputations to farm to get some toys/transmogs. Then you have some world quests. Outside of this, you're supposed to want to do M+/Raiding/3v3 arenas. Don't like that? Too bad, they spent all their focus to make the ugly dragon race and the talent system you already decided on when you looked up the best spec on Icy-veins in the prepatch before the expansion released.

I am 100% positive myself they will add in things like the mage tower again for updated skins during patches. Blizzard really likes to re use old content, so im sure your going to see more timewalking raids for new mounts and skins, your gonna prolly see updated island expeditions for skins and mounts, etc etc. To me this shit sucks, but for whatever reason, the community seems to like re skinned content with a reskinned mount reward. i dont get it, but thats gonna come in the next xpac as well

[cityguy193]

well you are coming out of SL. most failed expasnion ever which already limited content for causal playerbase and only catering to top 5% so what exackly do you expect ? they dont even bother with releasing 8 new dungeons in m+ only they are rehashing old dungeons.

so most likely yes. if you dont like pushing m+ and raids your only choice is ignoring wow and sticking to playing FF14.

tbh i strongly think that in 1.5 years when 10.0 will launch a lot of people wont return to wow only will stick to FF14. and they may come back for month or 2 when all the timegates are gone.

in my eyes 10.0 is the expansion switching game to maitnance mode. they decided its time to end wow for good.

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i wonder where you people see those grinds honestly .

and i say it from persepctive of person who this tier is doing literaly 1 dungeon a week on 12 alts and most of them are already doing 13-15 because last tier they were just doing 15s. (only reason they are not all doing 15s now is because depletion of keys exist and you cannot realisticaly farm up high score with 1 dungeon a week - yet tryhards dont have problem with score in game - which is 100 times more grindy then anything this expansion )

the most grindy part i had this tier was doing zm 12 times for belts. but since i work from home i did it like 30 minutes a day over a month time during work

same in legion and bfa i farmed nothing and had no problem to m+ on all alts.

I play both games. Decade long wow players will not like FF14 or stick to it for too long. Quoting anything from aesthetics, to a difference in the GCD, to not being able to complete a RPG story, some people are conditioned to only like 1 thing. This is reverse true to long time FF14 players

I did not like FF14 at all, until I quit all MMOs for a year. Gave it a try again with a fresh mind and I then thought of it as a much better game. What will likely happen is that 10.0 will release as a massive success, followed up a sharp decline to 1/3 of its original playerbase within a few months.

[Traveler Voltin]

Obvious troll post because no one in their right mind enjoyed doing islands.

i did. so stop speaking for everyone.

[Amariw]

Horrific Visions were interesting, but needlessly stressful and grindy. Worst of all, they were mandatory for player power which should never be the case.

Torghast was a novel idea, but imo it was too disconnected from logical combat design (by empowering parts of your rotation or utility which made your core combat design all wonky or boring). Like visions, its biggest failure is being mandatory for legendaries.

My fav version of instanced solo content were mage tower and the MoP warlock green fire questchain. Optional and cosmetic. In a similar vein, i think its more important to have cool outdoors which give you fun (not mandatory) incentives to fight elites with fun and dangerous mechanics;

Pandaria's Timeless Isle, and Thundering Isle as well as Warlord's 1-100% apexis zones did those best, in my eyes.

[Zantos]

I preferred the first iteration of legendary items. When they actually felt legendary and not everyone got them. I even enjoyed the hard quests, though they were no good if you were in a guild and didn't get to be the first one to get it.

I would be fine without borrowed power systems. Warfronts were hardly ever updated after they announced them. Certainly didn't get the attention they said they were going to get. Islands were also pretty bland in BFA. Im fine with none of those.

[kaminaris]

Less content that's actually fun and rewarding > More content thats unfun

Technically having to run maw of souls 300+ times was lots of content, but it wasn't fun

Having to grind islands all day was content, who actually was excited

No, that means less content that is fun.

[Celvira]

Removing legendaries is part of removing borrowed power. It's hard to leave them in and still be able to tell the playerbase borrowed power won't be present in DF.

Plus, it's still too early to gauge DF as a whole, and I'm optimistic that they will instead focus on creating engaging story/dungeon content (and possibly more Mage Tower-like scenarios!) opposed to slogging through forced daily grinds to increase temporary systems.