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  1. #101
    High Overlord Ghanir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    A second ranged spec would be nice. We're still at the same number we were before survival was taken away. We have a lot of catching up to do to the melee
    We are only 2 specs behind melee tho. Is it really that important to have an equal amount?

  2. #102
    Just llet Drekthyr be other classes IMO.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghanir View Post
    wdym it isn't applicable to anyone else? You telling me I am the only one in the world that didn't find any of the older X spec for Y role but tested out a newer class and found that their X spec for Y role meshed with me better than the older ones? Are you sure?
    That it is only what you did and experienced, and there is no evidence it happened to anyone else. I'm not saying you are the only one in the world; however, you haven't proven that there are others. We have no way of knowing if you aren't an exception.

    Since there'd have to be a significant part of the playerbase for it to be relevant, that's not a meaningful piece of evidence.

    People are sitting here saying that introducing new specs for a role, in this case tank, doesn't lead to more ppl queuing up as that role. And I am literally sitting here saying that is what I did after they introduced the Demon Hunter.
    Which doesn't prove that it leads to more people queuing up as tanks. It means you started queuing up as a tank, but that's not the matter in question. If it caused somebody else to stop queuing as a tank, we're still at net zero. Individual anecdotes aren't useful as evidence unless the claim is "nobody started tanking because of new specs", which it is not. It's "the number of tanks hasn't noticeably increased from new specs".

  4. #104
    I think they should get a third spec that is something like this:

    Eradication

    Combines the magic of the Green and Black dragonflights to inflict empowered damage-over-time on their enemies.

    Example abilities:

    -Poison Bolt (instant, no CD): Spits a bolt of poison at the target that does x Nature damage over x seconds. Chance to reset Lava Breath.

    -Lava Breath (x-x sec cast, empowered, x sec CD): Exhales a cone of lava, hitting x enemies in the area. Applies Melting to targets hit. Empowering increases cone width and distance.

    -Melting (passive): Causes x-x Fire damage and reduces armor by x%-x% per second, ramping up over x seconds. Upon removal or death, it bursts hitting all targets within x yards for 100% of the remaining damage from Melting. Damage and armor reduction increased through empowering Lava Breath.

    -Acid Bomb (x-x sec cast, empowered, targeted AoE, x sec CD): Lobs a large ball of acid in an arc towards the target location, leaving behind a puddle that persists for x seconds. Applies Chemical Burns to targets hit or standing in the puddle. Empowering increases size of the AoE and puddle.

    -Chemical Burns (passive, stacks x times): Causes x Nature damage per second and increases Fire and Nature damage taken by x%. Slows target by x%. Lasts until target is fully healed. Damage, damage taken, and slowing increased through empowering Acid Bomb.

    -Fire Wall (instant, x sec CD): Sprays lava in a line for x yards. Does instant x Fire damage and leaves behind a line of lava on the ground that applies Melting to enemies standing in it. This line periodically flares up, creating a wall of fire for x seconds every x seconds. Standing in or crossing this wall does x massive Fire damage and can instantly kill weaker targets.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghanir View Post
    We are only 2 specs behind melee tho. Is it really that important to have an equal amount?
    When we've gotten zero new ranged specs in 18 years, yes it is.

    Melee have gotten 5 new specs, one of which was stolen from ranged.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    High end players do exactly what you say they don't. They play up alts solely for that purpose.

    For everybody else, this is a non-issue, as you're almost always going to be short on tanks, not DPS.
    No they don't they play up buckets of the same class and base their main on whatever gets the best luck. What you are talking about is playing alts after prog but after prog is done who cares.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    It really isn't. The problem is not a lack of classes with tank specs. We have plenty. The problem is a lack of people who WANT to tank. I know I certainly don't wanna tank, even when I play classes with the option to. Tanking involves a level of responsibility I am not willing to bear, and I know for a fact that there are many who view tanking as I do. I do wish mages and locks could get a healing spec though, and I think rogues and hunters should get a tanking spec so that every class has a non-dps role as an option. But a tank spec is not NEEDED on Evokers.
    Okay I really don't why this is so hard. Right now the majority of dps in a raid are ranged of those ranged there is 1 single spec that can spec to tank. 3 total that can spec to healing and only one of those 3 is considered top tier. Suddenly we see why there are so few tanks and healers because people literally can't do it on their mains and if they don't play those classes they don't get to raid at a decent level lol.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    No they don't they play up buckets of the same class and base their main on whatever gets the best luck. What you are talking about is playing alts after prog but after prog is done who cares.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Okay I really don't why this is so hard. Right now the majority of dps in a raid are ranged of those ranged there is 1 single spec that can spec to tank. 3 total that can spec to healing and only one of those 3 is considered top tier. Suddenly we see why there are so few tanks and healers because people literally can't do it on their mains and if they don't play those classes they don't get to raid at a decent level lol.
    Yeah that makes absolutely no fucking at all wtf are you on about

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashina View Post
    If this is legit and it's a second RDPS i'm on board, even if the Dracthyr look ridiculous.

    A rdps/rdps/healer class is the dream.
    No, tank/rdps/healer is the dream then we have a second druid type that can actually do everything at a viable level hopefully.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    No they don't they play up buckets of the same class and base their main on whatever gets the best luck. What you are talking about is playing alts after prog but after prog is done who cares.
    Actually, they have done just that. It isn't even particularly exceptional compared to some of the other stuff they pulled.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Actually, they have done just that. It isn't even particularly exceptional compared to some of the other stuff they pulled.
    I know I'm saying that's what they do they aren't playing alts for fun. They are playing multiple characters of the same class.

  11. #111
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    If not tank then I hope it'll be full-time dps aerial combat mode - AFTER ALL THESE YEARS I REFUSE TO GIVE UP ON WOTLK BOX-ART!!1

    Really diggin' this thread and all the suggestions here!
    Last edited by Tiwack; 2022-05-10 at 05:19 AM.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwack View Post
    If not tank then I hope it'll be full-time dps aerial combat mode - AFTER ALL THESE YEARS I REFUSE TO GIVE UP ON WOTLK BOX-ART!!1

    Really diggin' this thread and all the suggestions here!
    While I don't see it happening, that'd be so neat

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwack View Post
    If not tank then I hope it'll be full-time dps aerial combat mode - AFTER ALL THESE YEARS I REFUSE TO GIVE UP ON WOTLK BOX-ART!!1

    Really diggin' this thread and all the suggestions here!
    How would that work in pvp? Can I keep netting Dracthyr down?

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    I know I'm saying that's what they do they aren't playing alts for fun. They are playing multiple characters of the same class.
    Nobody said it was for fun. They are also playing characters of multiple classes. They only large-scale did the single class thing in Legion, where Legendaries in 7.0 made a major difference.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwack View Post
    If not tank then I hope it'll be full-time dps aerial combat mode - AFTER ALL THESE YEARS I REFUSE TO GIVE UP ON WOTLK BOX-ART!!1

    Really diggin' this thread and all the suggestions here!
    With dragonriding and update to flying. Aerial combat is more likely to work.
    Don't think it'll happen though. Very small chance still.

  16. #116
    High Overlord Ghanir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    That it is only what you did and experienced, and there is no evidence it happened to anyone else. I'm not saying you are the only one in the world; however, you haven't proven that there are others. We have no way of knowing if you aren't an exception.

    Since there'd have to be a significant part of the playerbase for it to be relevant, that's not a meaningful piece of evidence.



    Which doesn't prove that it leads to more people queuing up as tanks. It means you started queuing up as a tank, but that's not the matter in question. If it caused somebody else to stop queuing as a tank, we're still at net zero. Individual anecdotes aren't useful as evidence unless the claim is "nobody started tanking because of new specs", which it is not. It's "the number of tanks hasn't noticeably increased from new specs".
    Just cause I am but 1 amongst millions of ppl playing the game doesn't mean I don't exist or affect the statistics, and me speaking up about it is more evidence than just saying "introducing new specs don't affect the playerbase at all".
    We here on this forum are but a small amount of the total playerbase and the ones posting are prob. amongst the few that traverse this forum. To say that just because this happened to me doesn't mean it did for anyone else is honestly ridiculous cause at least I have myself as proof that doing so does have some sort of effect while you are just throwing words out without any real proof.

    Which doesn't prove that it leads to more people queuing up as tanks.
    It's easy to speculate that the playerbase is dwindling slowly but steadily, and therefore the tank issue will remain a tank issue for as long as that is the case. To do nothing about it is more detrimental than trying to increase interest in it, be it through additional specs or otherwise.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by FossilFree View Post
    I think they should get a third spec that is something like this:

    Eradication

    Combines the magic of the Green and Black dragonflights to inflict empowered damage-over-time on their enemies.

    Example abilities:

    -Poison Bolt (instant, no CD): Spits a bolt of poison at the target that does x Nature damage over x seconds. Chance to reset Lava Breath.

    -Lava Breath (x-x sec cast, empowered, x sec CD): Exhales a cone of lava, hitting x enemies in the area. Applies Melting to targets hit. Empowering increases cone width and distance.

    -Melting (passive): Causes x-x Fire damage and reduces armor by x%-x% per second, ramping up over x seconds. Upon removal or death, it bursts hitting all targets within x yards for 100% of the remaining damage from Melting. Damage and armor reduction increased through empowering Lava Breath.

    -Acid Bomb (x-x sec cast, empowered, targeted AoE, x sec CD): Lobs a large ball of acid in an arc towards the target location, leaving behind a puddle that persists for x seconds. Applies Chemical Burns to targets hit or standing in the puddle. Empowering increases size of the AoE and puddle.

    -Chemical Burns (passive, stacks x times): Causes x Nature damage per second and increases Fire and Nature damage taken by x%. Slows target by x%. Lasts until target is fully healed. Damage, damage taken, and slowing increased through empowering Acid Bomb.

    -Fire Wall (instant, x sec CD): Sprays lava in a line for x yards. Does instant x Fire damage and leaves behind a line of lava on the ground that applies Melting to enemies standing in it. This line periodically flares up, creating a wall of fire for x seconds every x seconds. Standing in or crossing this wall does x massive Fire damage and can instantly kill weaker targets.
    Thumbs up for the creativity. Not super sure I am a fan of the acid-parts truth be told, considering the green dragonflight isn't really known to use that iirc, but the melting part and fire wall seems neat.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    When we've gotten zero new ranged specs in 18 years, yes it is.

    Melee have gotten 5 new specs, one of which was stolen from ranged.
    Ranged started out as the majority, and the classes introduced makes sense to be more melee-oriented. And we have confirmation that the new class will have 1 ranged dmg spec so what's the rush to get 2, all things considered?

    I am neither for- nor against 2 ranged specs, let me just make that clear. Whether they introduce a tank, a melee or a new ranged spec as a 3rd spec option for the Evoker doesn't bother me and infact increases my interest to learn more about them. I am just more pro-tank or pro-melee as a 3rd option if that were to be introduced.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Okay I really don't why this is so hard. Right now the majority of dps in a raid are ranged of those ranged there is 1 single spec that can spec to tank. 3 total that can spec to healing and only one of those 3 is considered top tier. Suddenly we see why there are so few tanks and healers because people literally can't do it on their mains and if they don't play those classes they don't get to raid at a decent level lol.
    I never considered this but it is troo. A lot of people do play ranged-dps and they are very limited in terms of tanking-options.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    No, tank/rdps/healer is the dream then we have a second druid type that can actually do everything at a viable level hopefully.
    Paladins can technically do so aswell.

    Protection have had its ups and downs but Holy has almost always been a sublime healing-spec. Retri sort of jumps all over the place but is rarely so bad it's "unplayable", at least not over the course of an entire expansion.
    Last edited by Ghanir; 2022-05-10 at 04:08 PM.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghanir View Post
    Just cause I am but 1 amongst millions of ppl playing the game doesn't mean I don't exist or affect the statistics, and me speaking up about it is more evidence than just saying "introducing new specs don't affect the playerbase at all".
    We here on this forum are but a small amount of the total playerbase and the ones posting are prob. amongst the few that traverse this forum. To say that just because this happened to me doesn't mean it did for anyone else is honestly ridiculous cause at least I have myself as proof that doing so does have some sort of effect while you are just throwing words out without any real proof.
    No, you don't have that proof. That's the point. You have proven jack all. We're not claiming nobody started tanking because of new tank specs. The claim is that the overall numbers of tanks haven't been affected, and you have shown no evidence to the contrary.

    It's easy to speculate that the playerbase is dwindling slowly but steadily, and therefore the tank issue will remain a tank issue for as long as that is the case. To do nothing about it is more detrimental than trying to increase interest in it, be it through additional specs or otherwise.
    Which is a completely different discussion. Besides, they've been trying to do something about it for over a decade and haven't made a dent. It's not as simple as you make it out. The playerbase dwindling or growing is also immaterial, as the percentage of tanks has stayed pretty stable. Tanks are no more or less likely to join the game or leave.

  18. #118
    High Overlord Ghanir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    No, you don't have that proof. That's the point. You have proven jack all. We're not claiming nobody started tanking because of new tank specs. The claim is that the overall numbers of tanks haven't been affected, and you have shown no evidence to the contrary.



    Which is a completely different discussion. Besides, they've been trying to do something about it for over a decade and haven't made a dent. It's not as simple as you make it out. The playerbase dwindling or growing is also immaterial, as the percentage of tanks has stayed pretty stable. Tanks are no more or less likely to join the game or leave.
    You don't know if it has had any impact or not, that is pure speculation. If they hadn't introduced a single tank spec since vanilla release, all the new classes not getting a tank spec that did so, you are honestly saying it didn't change anything to alleviate the tank availability issue.

    You can ask anyone and I am sure they'll agree that introducing new tank specs has done more to help alleviate the lack of tanks overall than if they hadn't.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghanir View Post
    You don't know if it has had any impact or not, that is pure speculation. If they hadn't introduced a single tank spec since vanilla release, all the new classes not getting a tank spec that did so, you are honestly saying it didn't change anything to alleviate the tank availability issue.
    Actually, we do know it didn't. Even Blizzard themself have said so in the past.

    You can ask anyone and I am sure they'll agree that introducing new tank specs has done more to help alleviate the lack of tanks overall than if they hadn't.
    Which would have no relevance whatsoever. Asking random people is not a relevant data point.

  20. #120
    High Overlord Ghanir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Actually, we do know it didn't. Even Blizzard themself have said so in the past.

    Which would have no relevance whatsoever. Asking random people is not a relevant data point.
    By your logic Blizzard should just do nothing instead of something when it comes to the tank role then.

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