If they bring Master Loot, it should be available only in guilds

[Rusken]

Yes it is.

No, it isn't. Ion said he personally likes it but the team doesn't, he then went on to list a bunch of issues ML faces in the current game while also saying they aren't entirely happy with how Personal Loot has worked out in regards to trading. I dunno how people are interpreting that as "Master Loot is coming back".

[gcsmith]

Now explain how to keep the leader from changing after you joined.

The rules of the game? If they change the loot rules after saying personal, they can just be reported and have loot removed.

Of course, they can stop it having the loot rules changed during combat, meaning no issue.

[Kralljin]

This. It would be much simpler and would also avoid all the really obvious issues with master loot being abused.

You'd basically have Masterloot with extra steps because then the officers / guildlead would just collect all loot after a boss kill and redistribute it.
If you don't want to give up your item, you'll get benched.

With Masterloot, it's at least upfront.

Make it so you can't change it during combat? Give changing loot-style a CD? Make the group leader choose loot style when forming the pug and it can't be changed after that.

You can't even "change" Loot rules during combat in Classic, they apply after combat has ended.

[huth]

Make it so you can't change it during combat? Give changing loot-style a CD? Make the group leader choose loot style when forming the pug and it can't be changed after that.

Idk there are several ways to get around that if you just think for a second.

Those are all extra measures that need to be implemented first, though. So it doesn't work without extra effort on Blizzard's side, contrary to your claim.

- - - Updated - - -

Perfect. See? Non issue

#ML2022

Hardly. They can still be changed just before combat. It reduces opportunites for scams, but it doesn't eliminate them.

[Rusken]

He listed reasons why it would be taking a while to come back, same as tier sets were for some reason. ML is coming back, it just most likely will not be in for 10.0.

I just listened again and I'm still not convinced. He very specifically is talking "Group Loot" which is different to ML. Whether he's using it synonymously or not I'm not sure. What we might see is an updated version of rolling on drops, where you can only roll on gear your class uses.

ML is too open to trolls especially in pugs and there are no restrictions you can put on it to stop Johnny Dickhead from giving the BiS trinket to his mate whether he wins it or not. I can't see them adding something that allows such toxicity.

[huth]

Life has risks idk what to tell you? Almost nothing can be 100% guaranteed.

But I even addressed that in a previous post, so yeah, non issue

You acted as if it eliminated the issue entirely. Now you suddenly act as if it isn't an issue to begin with. Sorry, but i can't take you seriously.

[Echo of Soul]

Start your own groups with PL then.

Or I could run with my guild. Why the fuck would I PUG anything in this game??

[GreenJesus]

Only in legion? Before that it could be used in most groups, but you needed to establish loot rules before hand so Community Support could deal with issues.

Yeh but that is the rule that was in place before they got rid of it. Master looter required vast majority of group to be in a guild before they got rid of it. The "pug ninja looter" narrative was already made irrelevant. I remember groups in WoD pre-made group finder just being tons of alts starting groups with ML while reserving the gear they wanted. "All paladin gear reserved." This was clearly an abuse of the system, but that ability hae been mostly removed with legion.

Ion talked about master looter on asmongold interview and they basicslly said it was because the coding was getting difficult to support multiple looting methods while also adding more smart loot like "no hunters in group? Then bow doesn't drop". They wanted to streamline to just 1 looting method. I can understand this, but I still think removing the option for mythic guilds to master loot was a mistake. Not being able to trade a piece of gear you got that you don't need feels bad.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

ML wasn't a thing in pugs during Legion or WoD though.

95% of pugs ran PL in WoD, and in Legion any pug (less than x amount of people from the same guild, don't remember the exact number) were HARD LOCKED into PL.


The removal of ML only affected guilds, so obviously it will be like that again...

[Belloc]

What about GDKP runs? Guilds aren't the only groups that benefit from master loot. Indeed, the only restriction they need to make is that the loot mode needs to be set before entering the dungeon/raid. If it can't be changed mid-run, then there's no issue.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

It was meant to be this way. However some unscrupulous raid leaders would change the loot type just before the death of the boss, and either ninja everything or give it to their friends. Part of the issue Blizzard has was when they said 'If raid leaders set rules out before a raid started and then changed them part way through, then that is a form of scamming and can have action taken' which meant they had to devote people and money to GM's to sort it out. PL was a great solution to the extra costs because there was no potential of scamming happening. I honestly don't think it will happen because the way they've defunded GM services means that without some robust software solution or a terrible ToS change on scamming, they wont be able to handle the extra scam tickets.

This never happened after WoD, and even then, it was an extremely rare occurance. In Legion, was impossible to enable ML unless x amount of people in the raid were in the same guild. Don't remember the exact number, but it was something like 90%. It was literally not possible to have ML in pugs...


The only reason why ML was removed, was entitled Trials who wanted to have the same prio on the big ticket items as the core raiders in a new guild they joined. This is ignoring the fact that Trials were usually SHOWERED with gear that everybody else didn't need, so a fresh Trial would always get the most gear in the entire guild during the test period. It was only the big ticked items like Trinkets and Weapons that they didn't have access to.

The removal of ML was a textbook definition of listening to the vocal minority who felt they were entitled to all the loot in the world. The funniest part is that gearing up as a fresh Trial in a new guild is WAY SLOWER (on average) now with PL than with the old ML system.

[psyquest]

If they bring in master loot in anything other that guild raids with 80% people from the same guild it will be bad.
Remember those assholes with "running instance XYZ, loot ABC is locked"?

[k0nker]

I wouldn't mind a system where when creating the LFG group finder entry, that's where you choose the loot type, and it cannot be changed once someone joins. If you list in LFG with a group already formed to find another member to finish filling up the loot type locks the party to what you choose. If the instance is already started, it auto-sets to the loot type the group is currently on, or asks the party to approve a different loot type you've selected.

If you join a party not through LFG tool invite, you get a chat box notice of the loot type that is currently. Once you enter an instance with the group, you get a popup window with the details of the group including the loot type that it is set to. And if it changes you are either prompted to vote or shown a big notice again.

This way, LFG tool created parties are locked to a loot type and can't be stealth changed on people. Stops groups from listing as personal, and then ganging up on anyone that joins to pressure them into agreeing to change loot rules.

[Forogil]

I just listened again and I'm still not convinced. He very specifically is talking "Group Loot" which is different to ML. Whether he's using it synonymously or not I'm not sure. What we might see is an updated version of rolling on drops, where you can only roll on gear your class uses.

And group loot is very different to ML; having people in a PUG or semi-PUG roll need or greed is generally not a good idea - someone will randomly attempt to ninja items - but in an organized guild during progression that shouldn't be an issue and there group loot would be the same as master looter, especially if the won items are open for trading without restrictions (to correct any errors).

However, that also indicates the problem in that setting, it just speeds up loot progression, since you can funnel pieces more efficiently at the start (basically it would be like personal loot without trading restrictions) - and if it gives less loot or more random loot to compensate someone will just make a spreadsheet to figure out which loot setting is optimal when.

[huth]

"non issue" has been a theme in all of my posts in case you didn't notice. And did you just post only to tell me that you don't want to take me seriously?

Umm...okay? Then don't quote me?

No, the theme of your posts has been "i don't understand the problem, therefore it doesn't exist".

[alexs]

To avoid any problems in pugs.

Yeah imagine having multiple choices by the pug leader, the horror of thinking that the pug leader has multiple choices before starting the pug.

[Arai]

ML coming back is bad for WoW except for the very few top guilds. Ironic how Asmon wants ML back so badly and always says its not for "him", while he and his closer friends will benefit the most from it. ML only drives toxicity and drama in a guild except if you have a perfect environment which simply almost never exists. Stop catering to the top guilds, if they want degenerate behaviour let them do it. They already profit enough from RWF so they can put in the work of more split raids I personally couldnt care less.

[Revamp Man]

ML coming back is bad for WoW except for the very few top guilds. Ironic how Asmon wants ML back so badly and always says its not for "him", while he and his closer friends will benefit the most from it. ML only drives toxicity and drama in a guild except if you have a perfect environment which simply almost never exists. Stop catering to the top guilds, if they want degenerate behaviour let them do it. They already profit enough from RWF so they can put in the work of more split raids I personally couldnt care less.

ML is my preference because it leads to less wasted loot
currently they have so many restrictions when it comes to loot simply because little jimmy might have a bad time if he gets asked to trade loot

ML just makes everything so much simpler
kill boss
4 items
people roll
people get items

[dragonflight10]

What about GDKP runs? Guilds aren't the only groups that benefit from master loot. Indeed, the only restriction they need to make is that the loot mode needs to be set before entering the dungeon/raid. If it can't be changed mid-run, then there's no issue.

Retail mythic raids aren't easy to just gather few uncoordinated people and do them, at least not the first few months.

You are a pure example of classic andy who thinks retail is easy

[Arai]

ML is my preference because it leads to less wasted loot
currently they have so many restrictions when it comes to loot simply because little jimmy might have a bad time if he gets asked to trade loot

ML just makes everything so much simpler
kill boss
4 items
people roll
people get items

Then PL should be improved. ML is most guilds = Loot Council and thats where the toxicity comes from. PL is simple in the fact that most loot is just distributed automatically without any drama.