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  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Oh, you mean story and lore shouldn't matter at all?
    Lore and story moves on like time.

    Curses weaken over time.
    Cultures change over time.
    Weaknesses become less crippling over time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudmaker View Post
    That's an interesting point. Perhaps an introduction quest would be required so that people are not confused. I just can't seem to make a Druid out of Undead. I don't know if it's even possible.
    Drust.

    /10char

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    During the war with the Legion, mainly class halls participated. And they didn't have to officially join the Alliance and the Horde. The Death Knights and Pandaren have officially joined the factions, and the Ewokers will do the same. I've told you this 5 times already, you really don't understand?
    They could have fought as neutral NPCs if they're still part of the Illidari and not the factions.

    Condolences if you think so
    Reality check, dude. Take one.

    It's called gameplay reasons
    Again, they could have remained neutral NPCs. They didn't even need to add the Demon Hunter class if that was the case.

    Yeah, and DK didn't choose to be that way and can't just stop being that way. Warlocks are much worse and the Draenei have a much worse history with Fel than with Death or even the Void.
    So do Nightborne? Orcs?

    Like so many other things
    Then, by all means, let them leave us. But, that wouldn't happen, would it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    But the factional gameplay mechanism baked deep into the roots of WoW does. There are no truly neutral playable options - you either choose a faction, or you select a race that is automatically part of a given faction.
    Like Pandaren until they turn level 10?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dzonathan View Post
    Lore and story moves on like time.

    Curses weaken over time.
    Cultures change over time.
    Weaknesses become less crippling over time.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Drust.

    /10char
    Different Death magic.
    Drust aren't about rot and decay, they are about spooky ghost stuff and witchcraft.

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    They could have fought as neutral NPCs if they're still part of the Illidari and not the factions.



    Reality check, dude. Take one.



    Again, they could have remained neutral NPCs. They didn't even need to add the Demon Hunter class if that was the case.



    So do Nightborne? Orcs?



    Then, by all means, let them leave us. But, that wouldn't happen, would it?



    Like Pandaren until they turn level 10?

    Who are they? No Demon Hunter in the game other than your character is part of the Alliance or Horde

    Yes, yes, as you say

    How can players be allowed to play as DH without adding DH? And how could a DH player be a neutral NPC?

    I highly doubt their history is worse, and I've already pointed out that draenei culture doesn't approve of that. They are too devoted to the Light.

    What?

    Pandarens are limited solely by their location until they choose faction, this will not work with demon hunters

  4. #324
    If {all races => all classes} then {racials => removed}

    Otherwise you're basically going to see Orc dominance in all aspects of PvP an no other class would ever be taken ever.

  5. #325
    I am Murloc! Geisl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelangel View Post
    If {all races => all classes} then {racials => removed}

    Otherwise you're basically going to see Orc dominance in all aspects of PvP an no other class would ever be taken ever.
    Vast majority of wow playerbase does not care nor engage in pvp. Why do you think they made War Mode and took away PvP only servers?

    They're not making class availability decisions based on PvP. They're doing it because class + race restriction in this day and age is super outdated and confining instead of something "meaningful".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven View Post
    My opinion is, if you as a player want any race to be any class, you forfeit any right to throw a tantrum over the lore they have to make up to explain why race A can be class B.

    So if Blizzard really want any race to be any class they should just enable it, since there is no way they can win, if they allow it some players will throw a tantrum, if they dont allow it some other players will throw a tantrum, so they should just do what they want to do, and let those that want to have a tantrum, have it.
    There's a certain sect of WoW players (probably most likely they're long time players who 'miss the good ol' days) that hate/dislike any changes done to modernize the game for today's world. I'm glad the WoW team is finally realizing it (or maybe it took such a hit of players leaving whichever) and not taking into stock really those tantrums.

    It's just like when they opened up customizations for all the races, majority absolutely loved it, same thing for creating transmog, vast majority enjoys it (despite even the creator hating it because 'it makes armor looks meaningless'). Vast majority of playerbase obviously enjoy being able to customize their own character(s) in as many ways as possible. Who could've guessed this?

    There's so much dumb stuff in WoW that was kept that way 'because of tradition' when it really didn't matter much at all the greater playerbase. It's nice to see them finally doing things for the majority of the playerbase rather than whoever these sects of static game state players are.

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Otimus View Post
    People who use lore as a reason to restrict some classes get on my damn nerves. Like because it's uncommon or ultra rare for a race to be a thing, no one can be one. It's obliterating player agency in favor of appearances which in most cases (I get it in some, even if I don't agree) is just stupid. Like... There's no good reason most every race couldn't be a paladin. "This race doesn't usually care for the light, so you can't make one that does!". Do you realize how silly that is? Like... It doesn't even make sense from a lore perspective usually to be like that. If it weren't a videogame that'd be racist as hell lol
    My favorite is "Draenei could never be warlocks, they hate them!" implying that humans and orcs are totally fine with locks, where you have to go into the shadiest area/basement of their respective cities to find the trainer

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    Vast majority of wow playerbase does not care nor engage in pvp. Why do you think they made War Mode and took away PvP only servers?

    They're not making class availability decisions based on PvP. They're doing it because class + race restriction in this day and age is super outdated and confining instead of something "meaningful".

    - - - Updated - - -



    There's a certain sect of WoW players (probably most likely they're long time players who 'miss the good ol' days) that hate/dislike any changes done to modernize the game for today's world. I'm glad the WoW team is finally realizing it (or maybe it took such a hit of players leaving whichever) and not taking into stock really those tantrums.

    It's just like when they opened up customizations for all the races, majority absolutely loved it, same thing for creating transmog, vast majority enjoys it (despite even the creator hating it because 'it makes armor looks meaningless'). Vast majority of playerbase obviously enjoy being able to customize their own character(s) in as many ways as possible. Who could've guessed this?

    There's so much dumb stuff in WoW that was kept that way 'because of tradition' when it really didn't matter much at all the greater playerbase. It's nice to see them finally doing things for the majority of the playerbase rather than whoever these sects of static game state players are.
    I suggest abolishing factions. Who needs it? I want to be a night elf for the Horde, I want to burn another world tree! What? Lore? I don't care about lore, I pay for this game, I'm a player, I'm the most important being in the universe!!!



    Something like this sounds to me those who say that Blizz should do everything for the sake of the players and their individuality

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelangel View Post
    If {all races => all classes} then {racials => removed}

    Otherwise you're basically going to see Orc dominance in all aspects of PvP an no other class would ever be taken ever.
    Yeah, arguably Humans too on Alliance.

    Orcs and Humans have the best PvP racials, keeping that "pillars of the franchise" motto alive and well, part of why I wish racials didn't work in instanced places.

  9. #329
    I am Murloc! Geisl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    I suggest abolishing factions. Who needs it? I want to be a night elf for the Horde, I want to burn another world tree! What? Lore? I don't care about lore, I pay for this game, I'm a player, I'm the most important being in the universe!!!

    Something like this sounds to me those who say that Blizz should do everything for the sake of the players and their individuality
    The lore is pretty crap now and it's obvious they're just making things up as they go without coherence to previously established lore, I think it's silly to feel invested in it at this point (and I say that as someone that was invested in WoW lore, books included, up until mid-way Shadowlands (yeah took me that long to realize)).

    Lore also at this point shouldn't impact gameplay. Your playable character isn't confined to the usual joe of their race, you do stuff as a night elf/orc all the other peons can't do.

    They're already starting cross-factions slowly and the WoW team give the same reasons players who have been wanting cross-faction play have been saying for years previously: the factions have been teaming up together for the true big bads for many years now. This isn't new information, this is simply the WoW team showing what's been said for years already has and is true, they're just finally acknowledging it.

    It's not about being 'most important' (which is a weird argument anyway because the devs and game make your character into someone special/important anyway), it's opening up more diversity without being beholden to archaic/out-dated game design.

  10. #330
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Like Pandaren until they turn level 10?
    Theoretically, a Pandaren can get to max-level in a neutral state, but the game is mostly broken for them and largely unplayable. So yes, the point basically stands - and Pandaren are meant to select a faction at the pre-determined point.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Theoretically, a Pandaren can get to max-level in a neutral state
    Actually one guy did it

  12. #332
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    Actually one guy did it
    Doubleagent, yeah. That must've been a hell of a slog.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

  13. #333
    Scarab Lord SinR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    Vast majority of wow playerbase does not care nor engage in pvp. Why do you think they made War Mode and took away PvP only servers?

    Don't say that too loud or THEY'LL show up again
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
    #TeamFuckEverything

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    Who are they? No Demon Hunter in the game other than your character is part of the Alliance or Horde
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_demon_hunters

    Yes, yes, as you say
    You think in storytelling everything is supposed to be perfect and harmonious? That would have added another interesting layer to Daelin Proudmoore's character. I'm, for once, all for it.

    How can players be allowed to play as DH without adding DH? And how could a DH player be a neutral NPC?
    Don't let us play as Demon Hunters? If they didn't join the factions, there's no reason for them to be playable.
    I was talking about Demon Hunter NPCs.

    I highly doubt their history is worse, and I've already pointed out that draenei culture doesn't approve of that. They are too devoted to the Light.
    So, it's not their history, it's their culture.
    Orcs culture would probably allow it. Nightborne as well, i think. As for righteous beings, it does contradict their ideology. The question is, would Velen be more accepting than the general Draenei population? He was the one to bring in the Broken, despite the racism of other Draenei.

    What?
    Demon Hunters finished their role with Legion. Remove Demon Hunters then.

    Pandarens are limited solely by their location until they choose faction, this will not work with demon hunters
    Why wouldn't it? Mardum isn't their starting zone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Theoretically, a Pandaren can get to max-level in a neutral state, but the game is mostly broken for them and largely unplayable. So yes, the point basically stands - and Pandaren are meant to select a faction at the pre-determined point.
    Could have been the same for Demon Hunters, wouldn't you say?

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by Raven View Post
    My opinion is, if you as a player want any race to be any class, you forfeit any right to throw a tantrum over the lore they have to make up to explain why race A can be class B.

    So if Blizzard really want any race to be any class they should just enable it, since there is no way they can win, if they allow it some players will throw a tantrum, if they dont allow it some other players will throw a tantrum, so they should just do what they want to do, and let those that want to have a tantrum, have it.
    This sounds good.

    Oh, does that mean I can't tell jokes about tossing dwarfs anymore?

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    All of these are neutral or hostile, with exception of the comp stomp DHs. In BfA, while the Alliance is waging war on Zandalar, Marius Felbane is helping secure Zandalar from a demonic threat (alongside an undead). It seems clear they don't care about factions.

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Could have been the same for Demon Hunters, wouldn't you say?
    Demon hunters cannot reach max level as a neutral character even if they started neutral in Mardum because they have no profession trainers/nodes in Mardum to gain gathering experience.

  17. #337
    I'm good with it. Let player characters be individuals. Just because draenei society shuns the fel doesn't mean an individual can't seek it out and practice it. Individual characters don't have to always conform to the general tropes of the race. Let people decide what makes sense for their character.

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Different Death magic.
    Drust aren't about rot and decay, they are about spooky ghost stuff and witchcraft.
    And Troll Druids use different kind of nature magic where they draw directly from Loa. Nothing Emerald Dream about it.
    Tauren paladins use different kind of light magic where they draw directly from the sun. Nothing Holy about it.
    Blood elf paladins use different kind of light magic where they literally milked a Naaru like a cow. Nothing Holy about it.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Aresk View Post
    All of these are neutral or hostile, with exception of the comp stomp DHs. In BfA, while the Alliance is waging war on Zandalar, Marius Felbane is helping secure Zandalar from a demonic threat (alongside an undead). It seems clear they don't care about factions.
    Why are they there, helping the factions?

    Demon hunters cannot reach max level as a neutral character even if they started neutral in Mardum because they have no profession trainers/nodes in Mardum to gain gathering experience.
    Never said reach max level, but start out as neutral.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dzonathan View Post
    And Troll Druids use different kind of nature magic where they draw directly from Loa. Nothing Emerald Dream about it.
    Tauren paladins use different kind of light magic where they draw directly from the sun. Nothing Holy about it.
    Blood elf paladins use different kind of light magic where they literally milked a Naaru like a cow. Nothing Holy about it.
    True.
    Just don't dress Drust aesthetics on a Forsaken. Let them have their own shtick.
    Last edited by username993720; 2022-05-13 at 07:01 AM.

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_demon_hunters



    You think in storytelling everything is supposed to be perfect and harmonious? That would have added another interesting layer to Daelin Proudmoore's character. I'm, for once, all for it.



    Don't let us play as Demon Hunters? If they didn't join the factions, there's no reason for them to be playable.
    I was talking about Demon Hunter NPCs.



    So, it's not their history, it's their culture.
    Orcs culture would probably allow it. Nightborne as well, i think. As for righteous beings, it does contradict their ideology. The question is, would Velen be more accepting than the general Draenei population? He was the one to bring in the Broken, despite the racism of other Draenei.



    Demon Hunters finished their role with Legion. Remove Demon Hunters then.



    Why wouldn't it? Mardum isn't their starting zone?



    Could have been the same for Demon Hunters, wouldn't you say?
    Hmm, interesting, although it seems they are just supposed to represent the enemy players, but still interesting.



    Metzen, lore's dad, called it stupid, i'm just pointing out to you that having something in an RPG doesn't mean it's okay


    What nonsense, lol. Remove demon hunters after Legion just because they're not part of the factions?



    It's both history and culture, lol. Light-based culture and history due to the Legion chasing them for 13,000 years. The Broken turned to the Elements, not the Fel.




    And what to do with already created characters? Delete them? It's called gameplay reasons.




    Mardum takes place during the time of BC, after which they are locked up for 10 years. And they start by fighting demons, what's the point of tying them to a faction?

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