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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Which is dumb, they're only in this position because they rushed and mishandled their earlier material.
    They're in this position because the current stories are rally, really bad. There is no intrinsic problem with telling new stories; they just need to not be bloody stupid, donated by tropes, incredibly derivative, and so on.

    MoP was a god damn fantastic expansion with a small amount of incredibly loud naysayers who thought pandas were stupid.the people actually there, playing it at the time, loved it.at least most of the ones I played with. The leveling experience was great, the story telling was largely great, the raids were a mixed bag but some were among the best ever released, the PvP was fucking awesome..

    When you compare the experience playing Timeless Isle to say, Tanaan, or compare Isle of Thunder and Throne of Thunder to anything comparable since, they are just different experiences. MoP was loved. I didn't love everything about it but even the stuff I didn't love I could see that it was made by someone who wanted me to like it because they liked making it. It's very different to what has come since, where the majority of the content in a similar vein simply feels like a way to make me stay in the game, rather than a way to make me WANT to stay in the game. The broken isles and antorus just make me shudder, they were made by people trying to extract my time soullessly.
    Last edited by Delekii; 2022-05-08 at 10:15 AM.

  2. #122
    Yeah they mined it out with a fucking sledgehammer, Legion and especially BfA contained what could've been 4-5 expansions worth of content.

    That being said, if that's why Shadowlands lore is so garbage, why did they just copy-paste a lot of characters from previous Warcraft stories instead of making something actually new? The brokers are literally just ethereals down to the greed, accents, and even visual design. Night Fae are just more emerald dream, Kyrian are Val'kyr, and the Necrolords are just the Scourge right down to the color themes and aesthetic of their buildings. The "First Ones" are just a more mysterious version of the Titan Pantheon. Venthyr are basically the only new concept and funnily enough were likely the most popular part of Shadowlands. Nothing in this expansion had a lick of creativity which is an impressive feat for an entire team of developers.
    If you reply to me with a full essay I'm probably not going to bother reading it, sorry.

  3. #123
    The state of the lore and their understanding of it, since neither Ior nor Danuser wrote any of the Warcraft 1, 2, 3, early WoW and the surrounding books, is disappointing. They have showed that their understanding is lacking at best. Throwing some of your biggest characters and plots in small underdeveloped content patches and then filling up with inconsistent and often nonsensical lore development demonstrates that.

    I'm looking forward to DF not because I'm thrilled for any of the story that's coming, but just because I can't wait for us to get out of SL and pretend it didn't happen. If they are collecting as much feedback as they say they are, isn't it clear the reception has been negative across the board?

    With Danuser I feel like he loathes the community's love for the old lore he had no hand in and tries in every way to take the story away from it and into directions where he can bask in the glory on his own. Only that the glory isn't coming, since his stories are poorly received.

    For Ion, from his comments in this interview and everywhere else, it's obvious that he uses "narrative" arguments at random. Recent examples include the "mining" of the lore War3 lore, the class/race restrictions, the black dragon evoker tank spec, the addition (or not) of new classes, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Blizzard do what the players want all the time.

  4. #124
    Its pretty important to state he said.. almost.. mined out. Which is pretty true.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by cozzri View Post
    I would argue that most of the people that have fond memories from MoP weren't there from the beginning. I vividly recall several friends that essentially boycotted the expansion until they offered Mop free as a bonus to WoD pre-order; by that time MoP was in a decent place after all the patches, so they got to experience SOO without the burnout others experienced from the previous raid tiers. Looking at MoP from that perspective, I can understand the nostalgia, pandas notwithstanding.
    I think Pandaria is by far my favorite expansion in terms of nostalgia. It was a prime expansion to go back and collect all the things. Power had reached a point where I could grab a couple friends and 2-3 man pretty much everything before Cataclysm. Legion wins when I look at story/content, with all of the class/spec quests and what not, was really a great expansion. I was never one upset with the introductions of Pandaren. Facts are that Pandaren existed within the lore, meme or not. And I would argue that the way Pandaren are designed, their aesthetical appearance, is true to WoW fashion. Yes, Pandaren *could* have been made to be these hulking, intimidating creatures... But that's just not who they are, they are peaceful creatures. Staying true to WoW's graphics/design, with their peaceful nature in mind, what we have is pretty much the only way to go. With that said, it's hard for me not to see people complaining about "Kung-fu panda" as someone who just enjoys belittling others to make themselves feel better.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii View Post
    They're in this position because the current stories are rally, really bad. There is no intrinsic problem with telling new stories; they just need to not be bloody stupid, donated by tropes, incredibly derivative, and so on.

    MoP was a god damn fantastic expansion with a small amount of incredibly loud naysayers who thought pandas were stupid.the people actually there, playing it at the time, loved it.at least most of the ones I played with. The leveling experience was great, the story telling was largely great, the raids were a mixed bag but some were among the best ever released, the PvP was fucking awesome..

    When you compare the experience playing Timeless Isle to say, Tanaan, or compare Isle of Thunder and Throne of Thunder to anything comparable since, they are just different experiences. MoP was loved. I didn't love everything about it but even the stuff I didn't love I could see that it was made by someone who wanted me to like it because they liked making it. It's very different to what has come since, where the majority of the content in a similar vein simply feels like a way to make me stay in the game, rather than a way to make me WANT to stay in the game. The broken isles and antorus just make me shudder, they were made by people trying to extract my time soullessly.
    Yeah the reason I dropped in MoP was because I didn't want to play the villain of my own story, I wish they'd stop recycling that with the Horde and actually fix what they've broken there.
    Twas brillig

  7. #127
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    Its pretty important to state he said.. almost.. mined out. Which is pretty true.
    Not that surprising, not that they can't reuse old WCIII themes but in a more different way. Still haven't gotten an answer about what we'd do in certain areas that were only for a patch(If they were an expansion or more).
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

    Warrior-Magi

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigal View Post
    I think Pandaria is by far my favorite expansion in terms of nostalgia. It was a prime expansion to go back and collect all the things. Power had reached a point where I could grab a couple friends and 2-3 man pretty much everything before Cataclysm. Legion wins when I look at story/content, with all of the class/spec quests and what not, was really a great expansion. I was never one upset with the introductions of Pandaren. Facts are that Pandaren existed within the lore, meme or not. And I would argue that the way Pandaren are designed, their aesthetical appearance, is true to WoW fashion. Yes, Pandaren *could* have been made to be these hulking, intimidating creatures... But that's just not who they are, they are peaceful creatures. Staying true to WoW's graphics/design, with their peaceful nature in mind, what we have is pretty much the only way to go. With that said, it's hard for me not to see people complaining about "Kung-fu panda" as someone who just enjoys belittling others to make themselves feel better.
    I wouldn't necessarily pinpoint pandas as the sole reason; I recall a lot of aversion to the erosion of character customization: removal of talent trees (which has already been neutered in cataclysm) as well as the dismantling of the Glyph system. It's rather ironic that Dragonflight is reviving the talent tree. I enjoyed MoP, however, I did notice a stark decline is raid participation in favor of LFR; I myself decided to move that route, and use Challenge Modes as my end game content. MoP was a great experience, definitely up there with Legion. I feel Legion has it beat out for the sheer fact that it focused popular lore and enhanced character customization through legendary items and artifact weapons.

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