Combat add-ons gone in Dragonflight?

[Kiria]

Not anywhere near what you think. They want to minimise the need, but do not believe they can remove boss mods without damaging the game far worse. They certainly don't want to remove addons and UI customisation in general.

Well that's a pity because the need for some mods ruin future aspects of games as you need to put in that extra effort to keep them updated with each patch and having to install mods to do the basics of the game is bad design.

Mod support needs to be dropped, not that im saying it will, it just should.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Well that's a pity because the need for some mods ruin future aspects of games as you need to put in that extra effort to keep them updated with each patch and having to install mods to do the basics of the game is bad design.

Mod support needs to be dropped, not that im saying it will, it just should.

Very glad they do not share this position!

[Kiria]

Very glad they do not share this position!

Oh but to a degree they do, They are finally starting to give up on designing encounters around addons.. I mean seriously it's sad downloading something that literally TELLS you what to do...

[m4Zzo928]

I've probably listened to every discussion, and from what I gather, they know buffs are hard to see and track, and are aware of the reasons players use addons, but are in a bit of a pickle, because they don't want to ban those addons, but at the same time think it makes it too easy with something just telling you exactly what to do. I personally think if they just make buffs/debuffs more visibly trackable, and perhaps even include a 2-3 second precast bar for boss fights it would help a lot.

[huth]

Oh but to a degree they do, They are finally starting to give up on designing encounters around addons.. I mean seriously it's sad downloading something that literally TELLS you what to do...

Where did you get that from? He literally said they have to design around the addons existing.

[pinglong]

People who haven't beat Jailer on Normal talking about removing combat add ons lmao, why do WoW players act like a handful of the top guilds custom designing weakauras on a couple of mythic bosses effects their playtime? I have KSM and AOTC from season 1 without DBM or WA, the mechanics are easy.

Also FFXIV does have add ons, they just get used quietly for obvious reasons.

[Caprias]

Where did you get that from? He literally said they have to design around the addons existing.

They want to try to improve information display/access so that especially dbm/bigwigs become redundant due to there already being enough telegraphs and easy to access information from the boss on what's going to happen next.

It's like in ffxiv where you can use cactbot (timers)since it's out there and certainly won't get you banned (if you don't scream atop of your lungs that you have it installed ofc.), it's just kind of nonsensical due to the indicators from the boss animations and or cast timers being more than enough already, in fact during my savage progression I even found it to be informational overload.

And as @pinglong already pointed out, this has certainly become better in the last few years, you really don't need addons for modern boss encounters outside of mythic to be successful, with the new UI settings coming so you can finally also move around buff/debuff windows and resize them especially I'd say.

Where the devs. really have to be careful are the current weakaura+notes interactions and stuff like it iirc, that's pretty much computational help which basically solves the puzzle so you're not even really playing the game in the first place.

[dragonflight10]

FFXIV doesnt seem to have an issue with not having them. Just add telegraphs to WoW and boom real simple problem fixed with a really simple solution.

it's more complex then that and i will give you a simple scenario where it's not about telegraphs
A boss summons adds every X amount of time, you see that there is 30 seconds left on one of your cooldowns but adds are coming in 40 seconds
it's best that you save this CD for them, it's about timers too
you not realizing this shows that you have no clue how high end raiding works, so keep your shitty opinion to yourself.

[kenn9530]

Is my dream becoming truth, no more combat addons in Dragonfight? Would be so nice because the difficulty in the raids and dungeons would be designed without the addons.
I never used addons and so for me dungeon runs in Dragonflight would be much better and hey maybe even M+0 possible for me tanking.

Asmongold Confronts Blizzard on youtube , Asmongold interview with Ion at 15:35

So your dream is to make the game even easier than it currently is, challenging raids and dungeons is about all the game has to offer, its the most dumb dream anyone can have for a game.

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I took it as that aswell and if they can achieve it, it will be a great benefit to the game, imagine being a new player reaching endgame and then being told you're playing the game wrong because you don't have 3rd party software installed telling you what to do, it absolutely ruins the experience.

Addon's need to be abolished, if it takes time I can understand that as long as Ion and the team can pull it off, also unpopular opinion I love the new UI layouts.

And the new players would fail at the same things regardless of having a mod installed or not, mod allow for better player freedom to play the game the way they want and allow boss enounters to be made more difficult, FF raids are boring and easy.

[Caprias]

it's more complex then that and i will give you a simple scenario where it's not about telegraphs
A boss summons adds every X amount of time, you see that there is 30 seconds left on one of your cooldowns but adds are coming in 40 seconds
it's best that you save this CD for them, it's about timers too
you not realizing this shows that you have no clue how high end raiding works, so keep your shitty opinion to yourself.

A good player would learn the timeline of the fight for that and when he has to hold cd's.

What kind of weird counter argument is that mr. burner account? lmao.

[Gaidax]

No they are not.

Ion pretty clearly said there is no solution for that at the moment, because he does not want to break addons. He'd like to cap some computational addons, but he has no clear line in the sand to draw, except for maybe when it breaks encounters like Among Us. In those cases they just break that specific function.

[Kiria]

So your dream is to make the game even easier than it currently is, challenging raids and dungeons is about all the game has to offer, its the most dumb dream anyone can have for a game.

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And the new players would fail at the same things regardless of having a mod installed or not, mod allow for better player freedom to play the game the way they want and allow boss enounters to be made more difficult, FF raids are boring and easy.

I disagree, I find having to install mods to play a game more offputting than actually playing the game, The content is only as difficult as the Devs make it and FF has some of the most brutal content in the game for those seeking it should they want too, to say its easy is disingenuous but I suppose you'd rather a mod tell you how to play the game instead, That's not freedom.

[Strungbean]

I disagree, I find having to install mods to play a game more offputting than actually playing the game, The content is only as difficult as the Devs make it and FF has some of the most brutal content in the game for those seeking it should they want too, to say its easy is disingenuous but I suppose you'd rather a mod tell you how to play the game instead, That's not freedom.

100% Ian made a great great example about that boss fight in wotlk. That’s such a simple concept for a fight, and without addons it can get very hectic very fast, but if you just had a weak aura setup for that fight that literally just walks you through what to do and when to do it the whole fight is essentially automated. That’s what addons turn the game into, automated play.

If you were to do something drastic and let’s say literally kill all addons. No more addons at all. The game would by default get more difficult. The fight mechanics would be WAY less clustered and it would be for the better.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

I disagree, I find having to install mods to play a game more offputting than actually playing the game, The content is only as difficult as the Devs make it and FF has some of the most brutal content in the game for those seeking it should they want too, to say its easy is disingenuous but I suppose you'd rather a mod tell you how to play the game instead, That's not freedom.

Not saying there's isn't an issue with some boss mods, but installing DBM or bigwigs and downloading a weak aura is not exactly a herculean effort on the part of a player.

It's actually a decent litmus test for whether or not someone is worth having in a raid group, almost like someone showing up to an interview in sweatpants instead of a suit!

[Stricks]

Telegraphs that just appear as placeholders on the ground are awful. I vote against anything like that... If it means keeping the add-ons so be it. But that stuff in games is so ugly... Wow has some of it at times but tries to at least blend it into the graphics.

[Kiria]

Not saying there's isn't an issue with some boss mods, but installing DBM or bigwigs and downloading a weak aura is not exactly a herculean effort on the part of a player.

It's actually a decent litmus test for whether or not someone is worth having in a raid group, almost like someone showing up to an interview in sweatpants instead of a suit!

I'm a perfectly decent raider imho while I havent raided in SL's (because everyone quit) I have a few curves and honestly I still think mods are a needless waste of time, I use as little of them as possible.

But they are definitely not new player friendly, not with how toxic WoW's community has become with all the M+ and RIO crap out there honestly and I did have more to say but my brains gone dead as im nearing the end of this 12 hour shift... I hate nights.

[dragonflight10]

A good player would learn the timeline of the fight for that and when he has to hold cd's.

What kind of weird counter argument is that mr. burner account? lmao.

How is that weird xD
yeh people tend to learn that after few tries, but it's much more than that
why should raiders memorize when X ability is upcoming when an addon can do that for them ?
they make raiding easier as countless people mentioned in these forums

[Caprias]

How is that weird xD
yeh people tend to learn that after few tries, but it's much more than that
why should raiders memorize when X ability is upcoming when an addon can do that for them ?
they make raiding easier as countless people mentioned in these forums

Yes it does.
So the devs. are counter balancing for years now with addons in mind.

Guess what the point of this thread is, discussing if that's the thing this game really needs, more barriers to entry...

[LordVargK]

The more addons they can make redundant the better to be absolutely honest.

This. Just disabling addons would be a huge mistake. If you incorporate their functionality into the base game however, this is a huge win. And we've seen it countless times: be it TomTom, Questie, the addons that gave you effects on your HUD, the addons that made certains abilities glow on your actionbars, all the bag autosort addons and many, many more. So many functionalities were taken from addons and put into the base game.

But this is what makes WoW the best MMO out there imo. Players still have a huge selection of customization when it comes to their interface and support tools. Getting a new trinket you forget to use? Just write a WA to remind you! Pet battles are boring and repetitive? Just write a Script and let the addon do the battle! The mission table is just... bad? Venture Plan to the rescue! You don't have two monitors to look up the different anima powers you can get from the enemies in Torghast? There's an addon for that! Lords of dread are basically impossible to pug? Well, WA to the rescue! You have poor self esteem in real life but outgear everyone in lfr? Skada/Recount/Details will get you the confidence boost your parents never gave you!

What I'm saying here is, that as long as addons are around, many oversights and mistakes made by Blizzard can be fixed by the community. And it would be so much work for Blizzard to incorporate all the different functionalities we enjoy now through our addons into the game, that disabling addons (and even only combat addons) more more precise: the functions in the interface would do way more harm than good.

[Makorus]

What fight in the last few raids have been designed with addons in mind?