Why no rotation of older raids in DF?

[RemasteredClassic]

Similar to rotating m+ dungeons from older expansions, why not do the same for raids? I feel like this alone could bring back many given the amount of nostalgia is much higher on the raids side of things.

Personally, I’m thinking I'd rather wait on buying the expansion until old expansion raids are added to the seasonal raids rotation or turned into solo queue raids.

I’d like to play the full game, not just a patch or an expansion. I already paid for previous expansions and it makes no sense to see it all deserted and made obsolete.

It would be nice if they could at least turn the older raids into solo or 5 man challenges at least with some interesting new cosmetic-only rewards.

Without variety and lots of choice, WoW PVE gets super repetitive fast.

Now that WoW's future is looking more evergreen than ever, I am already dreaming of the possibility that one day we will be able to queue for 5 man or solo challenge raid encouters encompassing all previous raid bosses from all of WoW's previous expansions.

There really is no reason not to be able to queue for solo older expansion raids (all of them, not just a few LFR level ones and from a single unified queue) especially when you can do so in almost all the competitior MMO games.

We are already soloing this content, except one shotting gets old quick and is super boring and unrewarding. There is so much more enjoyment when you feel both rewarded and slightly challenged as a solo player. I would even scale them to max player level and let solo players have fun given the quantity of content variety WoW has and the richness of encounter design variety.

Another possibility is to simply make available all older expansion raids at LFR difficulty setting through the LFR mode queue and we're talking real variety here especially when done in rotation. THAT would be amazing as an addition to current expansion LFR raids so people aren't doing the same ones all the time in the most accessible, easiest and most played raid difficulty setting. As for rewards, the usual TW currency is good enough especially if they add raid related thematic cosmetics to the TW vendors.

[draugril]

They said they’d explore this during the end-of-expansion droughts.

[xero5141]

I mean they're already doing that in s4 of shadowlands, so I would imagine if it's well-received they will extend it into DF.

[Khaza-R]

Because new seasons already bring new raids?

The whole purpose of the M+ pool shift is to keep each season of M+ fresh.

[scrappybristol]

That's what the season 4 experiment is gonna be about.

If players like it, it something they will consider doing at the end of each future expasion to help with content draught.

If players don't like it, then they won't do it.

[RemasteredClassic]

That's what the season 4 experiment is gonna be about.

If players like it, it something they will consider doing at the end of each future expasion to help with content draught.

If players don't like it, then they won't do it.

That’s for raids from the current expansions previous patch content tho, not older expansions.

[Lochton]

Similar to rotating m+ dungeons from older expansions, why not do the same for raids? I feel like this alone could bring back many given the amount of nostalgia is much higher on the raids side of things.

Because what you are asking for, is a system that is to be explored for the first time, in Season 4 of Shadowlands, and most likely expanded if popular. It gotta start somewhere.

[Nymrohd]

I think it might be interesting to do if they would ever split the time of a raid tier in two. Current raid "seasons" last 6-8 months. I think M+ should switch seasons twice as often, at the half way point and that some time of Timewalking should be implemented that makes another raid current at that point as well. My experience is that most guilds have cleared whatever they can naturally clear by that point and then are either struggling with a difficulty they cannot really handle or going into farm and having people lose interest (unless they are good enough to boost).

[RemasteredClassic]

Personally, I’ll wait on buying the expansion until I see old expansion raids added to the seasonal raids rotation. I’d like to play the full game, not just a patch or an expansion. I already paid for previous expansions and it makes no sense to see it all deserted and made obsolete.

It would be nice if they could at least turn the older raids into 5 man challenges at least with some interesting new cosmetic-only rewards.

Without variety and lots of choice, WoW PVE gets super repetitive fast.

[Celement]

I don't know how far you could go back... bfa characters were far stronger via corruption and azerite and before that far weaker then current classes.

A lot of bosses wouldn't be able to do much against players without new abilities and tools to counter act the new level of sustain, utility, and movement.

[Nymrohd]

I don't know how far you could go back... bfa characters were far stronger via corruption and azerite and before that far weaker then current classes.

A lot of bosses wouldn't be able to do much against players without new abilities and tools to counter act the new level of sustain, utility, and movement.

Realistically, you'd want to retune any encounter you'd add back. And that could include more than just damage and health numbers, you could make some abilities go off faster or slower, increase or decrease the range of abilities and AoEs etc. These are changes that can be done via hotfix on live encounters which at least makes me think they would not be THAT hard to do.

Now if you ever wanted to make proper Heroic raid versions of encounters before Cata then you'd very much have to remaster them (like Season of Mastery is doing to classic). Many encounters would just need additional abilities added to become properly challenging by today's standards. And some are just not up to par graphically whatsoever.

[Unlimited Power]

Personally, I’ll wait on buying the expansion until I see old expansion raids added to the seasonal raids rotation. I’d like to play the full game, not just a patch or an expansion. I already paid for previous expansions and it makes no sense to see it all deserted and made obsolete.

It would be nice if they could at least turn the older raids into 5 man challenges at least with some interesting new cosmetic-only rewards.

Without variety and lots of choice, WoW PVE gets super repetitive fast.

Don't expect to be buying Dragonflight at all then. Making raids from previous expansions is not currently on the table.

[Nymrohd]

Because what you are asking for, is a system that is to be explored for the first time, in Season 4 of Shadowlands, and most likely expanded if popular. It gotta start somewhere.

I'd say it's very different actually. S4 is not testing "old raids" it is testing raids from the same expansion and thus tuned in the same design paradigm. From Nathria to Sepulcher, the ability of a raid to react to encounters has not drastically changed. We have more throughput in every way and can withstand more damage but everything else is fairly similar.
This is not at all true for older raids. BRF was cleared on the back of Aspect of the Fox with full mobility for all casters. SoO was done in MoP when classes had significant mobility and defensives. Legion raids all happened with almost every spec having ample incidental cleave and numerous unique defensives from the bazillion procs we had.
S4 is not testing making any old raid current; it's testing adding a final season on expansion using content of that expansion to provide some content during the wait for the next xpac. If we were going to test old raid content it would probably be more akin to timewalking raids actually being tuned or getting an extra difficulty.

[Lochton]

I'd say it's very different actually. S4 is not testing "old raids" it is testing raids from the same expansion and thus tuned in the same design paradigm. From Nathria to Sepulcher, the ability of a raid to react to encounters has not drastically changed. We have more throughput in every way and can withstand more damage but everything else is fairly similar.
This is not at all true for older raids. BRF was cleared on the back of Aspect of the Fox with full mobility for all casters. SoO was done in MoP when classes had significant mobility and defensives. Legion raids all happened with almost every spec having ample incidental cleave and numerous unique defensives from the bazillion procs we had.
S4 is not testing making any old raid current; it's testing adding a final season on expansion using content of that expansion to provide some content during the wait for the next xpac. If we were going to test old raid content it would probably be more akin to timewalking raids actually being tuned or getting an extra difficulty.

S4 is testing the bringing up of rotating old content, am I not right? In the pool, you have the current raid tier, as well as the two previous yet older ones, correct? If it proves successful, said kind of seasons can be expanded, is that not possible? It gotta start somewhere, is that not true?

[Berkilak]

Personally, I’ll wait on buying the expansion until I see old expansion raids added to the seasonal raids rotation. I’d like to play the full game, not just a patch or an expansion. I already paid for previous expansions and it makes no sense to see it all deserted and made obsolete.

This is half valid. I, too, want to see more evergreen content. But if this is your litmus test for buying an expansion... literally every expansion failed this test, and thus, you shouldn't own any of them.

[Nymrohd]

S4 is testing the bringing up of rotating old content, am I not right? In the pool, you have the current raid tier, as well as the two previous yet older ones, correct? If it proves successful, said kind of seasons can be expanded, is that not possible? It gotta start somewhere, is that not true?

Well if you are that reductive of course you'll end up thinking you are right. I made my case on why these things are dissimilar. Not just older raids, previous raids from the same expansion. Not launched during a period where people are progressing on an existing raid, launched during a period where all current content is largely done and on prolonged farm.

- - - Updated - - -

This is half valid. I, too, want to see more evergreen content. But if this is your litmus test for buying an expansion... literally every expansion failed this test, and thus, you shouldn't own any of them.

I think the excitement shown by the community for Legion Timewalking may lead them to reexamine TW in general. But I also don't see them getting anything done fast.

[Iain]

Refurbishing old content into ever-green endgame material is easily the most cost effective way for Blizzard to spend their resources and bring subscribers back into the fold.

It's good content, it has nostalgic value, and best of all, it comes with such vast quantity, both the quests and the dungeons, that it keeps replenishing its own novelty. People don't mind doing an instance or a zone filled with world quests again if it pops up after having done 15 other unique zones or instances.

People love grinding, they just don't like repeating the same tiny content cycle that a single expansion has to offer.

There's no need for experimentation either. All of the necessary research has been done. Mythic plus, level-scaling and emissary quests is the format the old material has to be distilled into. A dedicated team could would on this, every patch bring in more old stuff into the fold, increasing the scope of retail WoW continuously.

[dragonflight10]

Similar to rotating m+ dungeons from older expansions, why not do the same for raids? I feel like this alone could bring back many given the amount of nostalgia is much higher on the raids side of things.

Personally, I’ll wait on buying the expansion until I see old expansion raids added to the seasonal raids rotation. I’d like to play the full game, not just a patch or an expansion. I already paid for previous expansions and it makes no sense to see it all deserted and made obsolete.

It would be nice if they could at least turn the older raids into 5 man challenges at least with some interesting new cosmetic-only rewards.

Without variety and lots of choice, WoW PVE gets super repetitive fast.

We only had announcement and few things, i feel that it's too early to expect that

why it wouldn't make sense that we deserted old raids ? we are done with them
You paid for them you experienced them you can still do them lol, the game will not cater to your bizarre demands xD

hope they never add what you ask for because the game is better off without entitled morons like you.

[Lochton]

Well if you are that reductive of course you'll end up thinking you are right. I made my case on why these things are dissimilar. Not just older raids, previous raids from the same expansion. Not launched during a period where people are progressing on an existing raid, launched during a period where all current content is largely done and on prolonged farm.

But I'm not wrong? Launching S4 with a rotation of its current expansion for testing doesn't mean it cannot develop? After all, it is something new, they admitted.

[Iain]

why it wouldn't make sense that we deserted old raids ? we are done with them
since when was that the norm ? you paid for them you experienced them you can still do them lol.

The content is unplayable in any meaningful sense of the word. Players have scaled beyond it. Soloing a raid instance is experiencing barely a shadow of what it used to be.

None of this content was designed to be one-use only. Keep in mind that players used to grind every single one of them for months on end. They're still doing that with current raids. They're not 'done' with them after playing it once, they like repeating this. Modernizing old content simply means there now way more to repeat, making the end game less repetitive as a result.

hope they never add what you ask for because people the game is better off without entitled morons like you.

...and the beauty of all of this is that it's cheap. It's a cheap way of increasing the quantity of the content without compromising on the quality. The more quantity that's accessible for everyone, the easier it is for anyone to avoid any content they don't like.