1. #3681
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    I said that in my original post. The GOP vocalized their intentions for decades, they just never had the opportunity. So if the GOP was very open about what they were going to do then how come Democrats never codified RvW when they had the opportunity? Why didn't they raise hell when McConnell held up the seat or RBG didn't retire so a guaranteed young left Justice could take her seat? Again, if you want to blame everyman for not voting, you better blame the people who had the power and responsibility to do more.



    We're on the internet, thats easy information to look up. But the Dems held both houses and the WH during Obama's first term.
    Did they have the Senate for a majority and also to beat Filibuster, or do we not need Senate to codify Roe? I get they have both houses, but do they bypass Filibuster?

    Yes, I do agree with you that they should have codified these things, assuming they could.

    While you should definitely hold the Democrats accountable, the way to "punish them" isn't to just not vote or to vote the other party because the alternative is much, much worse, and unfortunately we don't get to pick "neither of the above".

    yeah, I'm aware some people are suggesting doing more than voting, which i am all ears for. I'm too scared to make suggestions on public forums though because who knows what will be viewed as "going too far".
    Last edited by david0925; 2022-07-02 at 12:35 AM.

  2. #3682
    Quote Originally Posted by david0925 View Post
    Did they have the Senate for a majority and also to beat Filibuster
    Yes, for about five months (or 72 working days), until Anthony Kennedy died and was replaced with a Republican.

  3. #3683
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david0925 View Post
    Did they have the Senate for a majority and also to beat Filibuster, or do we not need Senate to codify Roe? I get they have both houses, but do they bypass Filibuster?
    I think they had 60 counting Independents, which means the filibuster wouldn't have mattered. Even then it should have killed the filibuster for the party...but here we are in 2022 with Dems still upholding the filibuster.

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  4. #3684
    The Unstoppable Force Bakis's Avatar
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    Just curious, what is the most likely scenarion (up untill next election):
    1. A 3rd party gets into the mix
    2. GOP scale down and become somewhat normal
    3. Continues polarization and more uneasiness among allies and the professional diplomatic and governmental core ie. to far gone and its fucked.
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  5. #3685
    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    Just curious, what is the most likely scenarion (up untill next election):
    1. A 3rd party gets into the mix
    2. GOP scale down and become somewhat normal
    3. Continues polarization and more uneasiness among allies and the professional diplomatic and governmental core ie. to far gone and its fucked.
    3. There is really no reason for GOP to scale back, and US's political system is extremely hostile to 3rd parties due to winner take all and EC. With all the rigging Republicans do at local levels we really might be too far gone.

  6. #3686
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    Cease derailing about the 2016 election. Although past elections are directly related to present and future events, each time the topic has come up in this thread the only result was nonconstructive and disruptive discussion. From this point on, please keep such circular debate out of the thread.

    This warning has been added to the OP.
    Last edited by Rozz; 2022-07-02 at 01:23 AM.
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  7. #3687
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Congrats on deciding you don't want to use what little actual power you have as a US citizen.

    Once again; baffling.
    As someone who voted let me ask you this.

    What is the point of voting when the highest power in the US isn't voted its appointed and when people do vote the majority isn't heard?

    That is a huge issue shown by recent events. SCOTUS waved a pin and set us back 50 years and are trying to do more. These people was not voted in they was appointed and appointed by a group that did not get the majority of votes.

    It has shown how extremally fucked up our system is and how very little power if any we have there is.

    The system is completely broke and the Republicans have rigged it in their favor. Kinda hard to win when the other team has a ace hidden in their sleeve.
    Last edited by Jtbrig7390; 2022-07-02 at 01:23 AM.
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  8. #3688
    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    Just curious, what is the most likely scenarion (up untill next election):
    1. A 3rd party gets into the mix
    2. GOP scale down and become somewhat normal
    3. Continues polarization and more uneasiness among allies and the professional diplomatic and governmental core ie. to far gone and its fucked.
    Number 1 would require some significant changes in our voting systems. The majority of states adopting ranked choice voting would probably be the "easiest" way to accomplish this, in that it can be done without a Constitutional Amendment or other act of Congress. But that's highly unlikely, because few politicians are going to intentionally dilute their power like that.

    Number 2 would require an absolutely massive seismic change in the Republican party. We're talking on the order of most of their leadership and most popular members suddenly dying, or a widespread series of crushing defeats across the board that are clearly attributable to being too extreme. And while we're wishing for miracles, I'd like a hundred million dollars.

    That, unfortunately, leaves number 3 as the most likely option out of the presented scenarios, because that only requires that the GOP keep ratfucking the system to stay in power. Just like they've been doing all along, and like they've shown every indication they intend to continue doing as long as they can.

  9. #3689
    I am Murloc! Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    As someone who voted let me ask you this.

    What is the point of voting when the highest power in the US isn't voted its appointed and when people do vote the majority isn't heard?

    That is a huge issue shown by recent events. SCOTUS waved a pin and set us back 50 years and are trying to do more. These people was not voted in they was appointed and appointed by a group that did not get the majority of votes.

    It has shown how extremally fucked up our system is and how very little power if any we have there is.
    The reason the SCOTUS isn't voted for is that they wanted a branch of the Government to be headed by people who in theory should not be subjected to the whims of politicians. Sadly, that has failed and the courts are now ending up being partisan when the reason for their Construction was to be impartial politically.

    This SCOTUS is incredibly partisan. And even if we were to pass a law where say the public can protest a SCOTUS decision, it would only apply to decisions rendered after the point the law is passed. We couldn't retro actively removed the decisions made by this SCOTUS. And even if we were to impeach, remove, and replace the judges currently, that does not void their decisions and a new case would need to be brought to the Supreme Court on the issue.

    I understand the frustration that voting feels pointless. Where I live, I am lucky that my vote will matter for my US Representative, but most of the rest of my state is very blue so either my vote is just one of many more than needed to win or just a vote saying "No, I don't like the guy who will win." But, if you don't vote than people who get to select the SCOTUS will not likely be ones who agree with you.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2022-07-02 at 01:29 AM.
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  10. #3690
    The Unstoppable Force Bakis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    The reason the SCOTUS isn't voted for is that they wanted a branch of the Government to be headed by people who in theory should not be subjected to the whims of politicians. Sadly, that has failed and the courts are now ending up being partisan when the reason for their Construction was to be impartial politically.

    This SCOTUS is incredibly partisan. And even if we were to pass a law where say the public can protest a SCOTUS decision, it would only apply to decisions rendered after the point the law is passed. We couldn't retro actively removed the decisions made by this SCOTUS. And even if we were to impeach, remove, and replace the judges currently, that does not void their decisions and a new case would need to be brought to the Supreme Court on the issue.

    I understand the frustration that voting feels pointless. Where I live, I am lucky that my vote will matter for my US Representative, but most of the rest of my state is very blue so either my vote is just one of many more than needed to win or just a vote saying "No, I don't like the guy who will win." But, if you don't vote than people who get to select the SCOTUS will not likely be ones who agree with you.
    Fully agree, but the changes has to come in babysteps and luck (DEM majority house/senate).
    The first step should be a time limit and/or age limit.
    For "life" is just stupid.
    Last edited by Bakis; 2022-07-02 at 02:07 AM.
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  11. #3691
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    And people like @cubby will take an anonymous screenshot alleging that federally owned VA hospitals are impacted by Missouri laws, whose laws allegedly prevent radiation therapy.

    There's at least three reasons why this is likely misinformation, but my question would just be why people are so trusting in anonymous internet stories that don't pass the smell test. Is it because you're ready to believe any story that paints a red state in a negative light? This is how misinformation with no corroboration spreads through the internet, and I hope you're happy with your participation.
    And again we see the "leveling up" of the GQP minions. tehdang here is attempting to pull a "how can you trust this" situation, when he himself has posted almost uncountable numbers of misinformation, lies, poor sources, and outright mistruths with little to no cites or sources.

    You notice how even now, he's pulling the Trumperism, "I'm not really sure, but this sure doesn't sound right" - this is how the ignorant masses of the GQP spew their bile filled lies. Goebbels would proud. (and in before he misuses Godwin, rofl - you guys are beyond predictable)

    You also notice how he says there are three reasons why this is misinformation, but then fails to list even one - and then brings forth the assumption that it's wrong, and we're all wrong for citing or believing it. Yet he uses no sources. At all. More of the Ministry of Truth's methods here.

    You're reading the talking points perfectly, tehdang. Trump is proud of you (let's see if you can give us the two reasons why that statement is wrong ).

  12. #3692
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    As someone who voted let me ask you this.

    What is the point of voting when the highest power in the US isn't voted its appointed and when people do vote the majority isn't heard?

    That is a huge issue shown by recent events. SCOTUS waved a pin and set us back 50 years and are trying to do more. These people was not voted in they was appointed and appointed by a group that did not get the majority of votes.

    It has shown how extremally fucked up our system is and how very little power if any we have there is.

    The system is completely broke and the Republicans have rigged it in their favor. Kinda hard to win when the other team has a ace hidden in their sleeve.
    SCOTUS judges are nominated. After their electoral victories in 2016 republicans appointed two SCOTUS judges. Its wild people miss the point of voting so badly

  13. #3693
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I said it back in 2015. Stop the GOP from taking this election or you will lose the SCOTUS and women's right. I saw this very specific thing happening seven years ago and now here it is. In a two party system you are voting against someone as much as you vote for someone. And yeah sure, you stuck it to hillary for failing to inspire you. Pat yourself in the back. Enjoy your country going fully conservative. And if you think it is just women's rights . . . I read they already voted to scale back EPA's authority to set carbon targets. I am not there, I don't get to vote in your country but we will all suffer because of you people. But you are a hopeless cause who prefers to complain than vote lunatics out of office. Every person who did not vote got this result exactly as much as everyone who voted GOP. Heck depending on state and county you may have contributed more to the mess than actual voters.
    Did you really? I mean, I believe you would say that, and see a possible future, but if you have a post on this forum you could like that would be super cool. Not being sarcastic here.

    You and others who saw this coming were spot on. We lost the Court, and we'll soon lose the House and Senate, and shortly after that the White House. It's going to be a tough fight to get them back, if it's even still possible (see the North Carolina SCOTUS ruling).

    We're going to have a initially hard slide into conservatism, and then about 20-30 years of a gradual slide (unless the shitzle gets real) into more conservatism. Our only hope is the ballot box. We have to continue to get the vote out, turn those purple states blue and get the red states to see reason.

  14. #3694
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    I was going to reply properly, but got to this bit and realised it's utterly pointless when you express shit like this. Whatever your reasons are, they're bullshit. Especially right now when you can literally see what is going on.

    Congrats on deciding you don't want to use what little actual power you have as a US citizen.

    Once again; baffling.
    I genuinely don't get the people that don't want to vote. If you don't support neither party then vote for a third party or vote blank. But vote, its literally how you change the government regardless of how you do it

  15. #3695
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Google Says It Will Delete Location Data When Users Visit Abortion Clinics
    Google said on Friday that it would delete abortion clinic visits from the location history of its users, in the company’s first effort to address how it will handle sensitive data in the wake of the Supreme Court overturning Roe v. Wade.

    The location data change will take place in the coming weeks, Jen Fitzpatrick, a Google senior vice president, wrote in a blog post. The policy will also apply to trips to fertility clinics, domestic violence shelters, addiction treatment facilities and other sensitive locations.

    The Alphabet Workers Union, a group representing more than 800 people who work for Google’s parent company, Alphabet, demanded on Tuesday that the search giant delete any personal data that law enforcement could try to use to prosecute those who are getting abortions.

    With Friday’s announcement, while Google will delete some location data, it did not commit to automatically deleting search records about abortions, which may also become sought after. Users must individually opt to delete their search history.

    Google has been sued by the state of Texas, accused of continuing to track users even when they use the Chrome web browsers’ supposedly private Incognito Mode — which may further erode confidence that the company will purge all data when people try to browse privately.

    Google also made no commitments about changing the way it handles government data requests.

    “We remain committed to protecting our users against improper government demands for data, and we will continue to oppose demands that are overly broad or otherwise legally objectionable,” Ms. Fitzpatrick wrote.

    The company also said that users will soon be able to more quickly delete multiple menstruation logs stored on Fitbit, a health-tracking company owned by Google, rather than one at a time. The company also reminded users to employ existing settings options on Google to improve their online privacy.
    For them to actively go out of their way to release this statement of intent is one of the many beacons of hope we'll need if we have any chance of survival. Google is untouchable as a company, which prior to right now, I always thought would be frightening. But in this case, with moral leaders who know what right and wrong are, it's definitely a good thing.

    And LOL at Texas GQP officials trying to fight this. They can't even spell interwebs anymore.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    As someone who voted let me ask you this.

    What is the point of voting when the highest power in the US isn't voted its appointed and when people do vote the majority isn't heard?

    That is a huge issue shown by recent events. SCOTUS waved a pin and set us back 50 years and are trying to do more. These people was not voted in they was appointed and appointed by a group that did not get the majority of votes.

    It has shown how extremally fucked up our system is and how very little power if any we have there is.

    The system is completely broke and the Republicans have rigged it in their favor. Kinda hard to win when the other team has a ace hidden in their sleeve.
    It is horrifying, and the depth of that horror hasn't been realized yet.

    HOWEVER, voting is the only way out from this - period. If we had 80% of the voting population show up to the polls, no amount of skulldugery could change the result - a resounding sweep of Democrats into office. We'd have the House +50, and a slim shot at a supermajority in the Senate. Keep doing that for the next 30 years, and we'll have a SCOTUS with a 7-2 liberal (i.e. for the people's benefit) majority.

    It's very possible to overcome this, and voting is about the only way to do it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    The reason the SCOTUS isn't voted for is that they wanted a branch of the Government to be headed by people who in theory should not be subjected to the whims of politicians. Sadly, that has failed and the courts are now ending up being partisan when the reason for their Construction was to be impartial politically.

    This SCOTUS is incredibly partisan. And even if we were to pass a law where say the public can protest a SCOTUS decision, it would only apply to decisions rendered after the point the law is passed. We couldn't retro actively removed the decisions made by this SCOTUS. And even if we were to impeach, remove, and replace the judges currently, that does not void their decisions and a new case would need to be brought to the Supreme Court on the issue.

    I understand the frustration that voting feels pointless. Where I live, I am lucky that my vote will matter for my US Representative, but most of the rest of my state is very blue so either my vote is just one of many more than needed to win or just a vote saying "No, I don't like the guy who will win." But, if you don't vote than people who get to select the SCOTUS will not likely be ones who agree with you.
    Agreed. We're going to have to make some big changes, after we get the leadership control back.

  16. #3696
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    For them to actively go out of their way to release this statement of intent is one of the many beacons of hope we'll need if we have any chance of survival. Google is untouchable as a company, which prior to right now, I always thought would be frightening. But in this case, with moral leaders who know what right and wrong are, it's definitely a good thing.

    And LOL at Texas GQP officials trying to fight this. They can't even spell interwebs anymore.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It is horrifying, and the depth of that horror hasn't been realized yet.

    HOWEVER, voting is the only way out from this - period. If we had 80% of the voting population show up to the polls, no amount of skulldugery could change the result - a resounding sweep of Democrats into office. We'd have the House +50, and a slim shot at a supermajority in the Senate. Keep doing that for the next 30 years, and we'll have a SCOTUS with a 7-2 liberal (i.e. for the people's benefit) majority.

    It's very possible to overcome this, and voting is about the only way to do it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Agreed. We're going to have to make some big changes, after we get the leadership control back.
    I'd argue voting is the minimum. If you can't even be bothered to do that then might as well do nothing because your voice doesn't matter

  17. #3697
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    Fully agree, but the changes has to come in babysteps and luck (DEM majority house/senate).
    The first step should be a time limit and/or age limit.
    For "life" is just stupid.
    Agreed. 20 year limit, age out at 75. Easy to implement, too. Simple vote from the House and Senate, and President signs.

  18. #3698
    Bloodsail Admiral tehdang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    And again we see the "leveling up" of the GQP minions. tehdang here is attempting to pull a "how can you trust this" situation, when he himself has posted almost uncountable numbers of misinformation, lies, poor sources, and outright mistruths with little to no cites or sources.

    You notice how even now, he's pulling the Trumperism, "I'm not really sure, but this sure doesn't sound right" - this is how the ignorant masses of the GQP spew their bile filled lies. Goebbels would proud. (and in before he misuses Godwin, rofl - you guys are beyond predictable)

    You also notice how he says there are three reasons why this is misinformation, but then fails to list even one - and then brings forth the assumption that it's wrong, and we're all wrong for citing or believing it. Yet he uses no sources. At all. More of the Ministry of Truth's methods here.

    You're reading the talking points perfectly, tehdang. Trump is proud of you (let's see if you can give us the two reasons why that statement is wrong ).
    Remember, behind all these Goebbels lines and et tu quoque, you're spreading misinformation and blaming others. I'll phrase it in terms you might understand:

    Again, we see the "leveling up" of left-wing misinformation. cubby here is attempting to pull a "why should I have to answer anything" move. He knows he posted something indefensible, but has no clue how to continue. Never mind, cubby says. I'll just accuse him of being even worse than me! It works great. cubby never has to own up to his uncountable numbers of misinformation, lies, sourcing, and outright mistruths. He just accuses others of being far worse, and sits back and laughs.

    But, never fear, cubby has more layers. It would be boring otherwise, right? He's gotta break out the NAZIS. Goebbels. Now, remember, cubby is spreading some random image he has no idea who wrote it, the law in question, or federal hospitals. But that takes thinking, and thinking is work. Much better is to unquestionably spread every accusation he comes across. Remember, Trump was really good at lying, he just said anything that came out of his mouth. cubby, much like Trump, just spreads things he has no idea about, and has his own blame the mainstream media play afterwards. Fake news media, meet Trumperism GQP talking points. He shifts the burden to others. It isn't that cubby is spreading unverifiable claims, anonymous sourcing, questionable state-and-federal interplay, and no relevant news stories. It's that he's going to make others do the dirty work of proving him wrong. And cubby will pat them on their head, and tell them congratulations on being little talking point parroters.

    Now remember, every paragraph has to contain one of the following. cubby's rules. 1) You're more guilty than I am 2) Nazis/other undesirables 3) 1984-esque accusations 4) You're reading talking points. Let's do the 1984 paragraph. The Ministry of Truth says you're not guilty of spreading misinformation if someone else can't check anonymous claims. I can say Alaskan national guard is shooting babies in the hallways of abortion clinics, put it in a text, and share it. But, no, it isn't unsourced and quizzical, it's now part of your job to prove there aren't Alaskan national guard units doing the thing. Just let your biases fill in the burden of proof.

    Let's see, that just leaves a summary of cubby's work. Pretty easy. First it is presumed true that anything bad happening to a red state happened. It doesn't matter if its a federal hospital, state law got in there and is killing patients. It doesn't matter that no names or locations were used. It doesn't matter that there's no news story attached. It happened. You've gotta look up every VA hospital and prove it never happened. Second, and this is a doozy, Missouri has pro-life laws that declare life begins at conception and that protects cancer cells from being treated by radiation. This isn't some Colbert parody. It's reality. Remember, Republicans are evil, so outlawing cancer treatments by accident in abortion law is totally plausible. Oh, and accidental outlawing of cancer treatment by pro-life legislation didn't make a national news story, much less a blip on twitter. Again, you need sources, cubby doesn't.

    Thus ends mimicking the style of cubby's response. Remember, always deny everything, call the opponent worse, and congratulate them on spewing talking points. That way, you answer nothing, expand nothing, (and let's be honest) don't really care about spreading misinformation. Just remember, folks, you can spread all the misinformation you like, because at the end of the day, Trump was worse, and that means you don't have to worry about anything. Missouri abortion ban accidentally hits a dosimetrist treating tumors? Be more original and creative, like the Supreme Court's New York gun law decision accidentally criminalized surgeon's use of scalpels. It's a more populous state, so at least it'll take more time calling each surgery center making sure nobody's grabbing for them.
    Last edited by tehdang; 2022-07-02 at 03:37 AM.
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  19. #3699
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Remember, behind all these Goebbels lines and et tu quoque, you're spreading misinformation and blaming others. I'll phrase it in terms you might understand:

    Again, we see the "leveling up" of left-wing misinformation. cubby here is attempting to pull a "why should I have to answer anything" move. He knows he posted something indefensible, but has no clue how to continue. Never mind, cubby says. I'll just accuse him of being even worse than me! It works great. cubby never has to own up to his uncountable numbers of misinformation, lies, sourcing, and outright mistruths. He just accuses others of being far worse, and sits back and laughs.
    This is empty accusation, just blind "NO U" bullshitting. You don't have an argument. You're just making shit up. Unlike cubby.

    Ironically, you make his point by engaging like this.

    But, never fear, cubby has more layers. It would be boring otherwise, right? He's gotta break out the NAZIS. Goebbels.
    The only people who protest when Nazi analogues are pointed out are the Nazis, upset that their cover's blown.

    There's absolutely no reason to avoid bringing up Nazis when the discussion is about encroaching fascism.

    Which this is.

    It would be dishonest to not draw that obvious connection just to save the precious feelings of Nazi sympathizers. Who, again, are the only ones who find this all that objectionable.

    Is the comparison disturbing? Sure. That's literally the point. That our current reality echoes the same disturbing rhetoric of the Nazi Reich basically 1:1, with some slight-but-irrelevant shifts in precisely who's being scapegoated.

    Thus ends mimicking the style of cubby's response
    Where you admit your intent is to troll.

    Your entire argument is nothing but an appeal to emotion, that nothing as terrible as the Nazi Reich could ever happen again. Despite there being clear analogues in the modern day. And Republican rhetoric lining up. And major public Republican figures literally, openly, publicly praising Hitler. Including Trump. We know it can happen, because it frickin' did happen. The Nazis weren't magical. They were a natural expression of the evils in humanity. The same evils being lauded and perpetrated by the Republican Party, today.
    Last edited by Endus; 2022-07-02 at 03:53 AM.


  20. #3700
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    /snip for forgettable typical GQP minion spew
    Notice how he can't refute the accusations, and just goes on the attack. Note also the attacks include claims of no cites, where I had provided them (the required GQP misinformation/lie), AND he continues to provide zero cites. GQP tot the core. We can also see by the length of response the depth that he's been emotionally affected by the exposed truth in his hypocrisy and lies. The lack of any self-introspection or ability to admit he could be wrong is also clearly present. This is how the GQP and Conservative Neo-Nazi-Right wants him and his ilk to respond.

    Trump wouldn't be proud, but tehdang thinks he would.

    The fact is that with SCOTUS rolling back Roe, we're in for a hell of a fight to win back the morality of the United States. Expect the fight to include all privacy, women's rights, same sex marriage, merging state and religion, and, well, more to come. The above is just a miniscule example of what we can expect from these immoral minions.

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