1. #561
    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    I dunno, the mere fact of the physical necessity of a mother not only for life but perpetuation of the human species puts this in a singular category not well covered by legal precedent in other areas. It’s a unique issue in law in my opinion.
    A False Dichotomy Fallacy.
    A Fetus is not a person under the 14th amendment.

    Christians are Forced Birth Fascists against Human Rights who indoctrinate and groom children. Prove me wrong.

  2. #562
    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    I hate to keep banging the drum.
    No, you don't. You've given a veritable drum solo of noise. You love it. At least be honest about your misogyny.
    “There you stand, the good man doing nothing. And while evil triumphs, and your rigid pacifism crumbles to blood stained dust, the only victory afforded to you is that you stuck true to your guns.”

  3. #563
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    I dunno, the mere fact of the physical necessity of a mother not only for life but perpetuation of the human species puts this in a singular category not well covered by legal precedent in other areas. It’s a unique issue in law in my opinion.
    And your opinion is wrong, because there is absolutely legal precedent.

    Any human is theoretically necessary for the "perpetuation of human life", but in no circumstance is it considered acceptable to violate bodily autonomy for the purposes of saving other human life. You cannot force people to donate blood, bone marrow, organs, etc. even if doing so would be instrumental in saving someone's life. You cannot even take such from deceased humans without permission. Creating a special case for abortion is essentially reducing women to second-class humans.

    So all the arguments about what constitutes a person and at what point it kicks in are utterly meaningless emotional appeals because what you're effectively advocating for is giving a living woman fewer rights than a corpse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axxil View Post
    Yes because we are a republic and not a democracy.
    Yeah, and that's a bad thing.

    You REALLY don't want mob rule, it always leads to horrible things.
    Citation needed that democracy always leads to horrible things when the US' plutocratic republicanism has led to equally if not more horrible things.
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2022-05-04 at 09:12 AM.
    The Were/Was Army: "Nooo you can't just vaporize my entire armored division, we had such a manly recruitment ad!"
    The They/Them Army: "Omg integrated fire support?? Go off queen sksksks, JDAMs are such a gemini thing."

  4. #564
    And never forget that rich people will always have access if they want it.
    - Lars

  5. #565
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    And never forget that rich people will always have access if they want it.
    This has always been about screwing the poors, these "moral" republicans mistresses will of course be able to abort their child.

  6. #566
    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    I dunno, the mere fact of the physical necessity of a mother not only for life but perpetuation of the human species puts this in a singular category not well covered by legal precedent in other areas. It’s a unique issue in law in my opinion.
    Question I have should I be able to forcefully take, lets say, your kidney/lung/part of your intestine, if I am in need of it as it is to keep me alive? Remember, RvW is about bodily autonomy. If women lose theirs, so should everyone else and be forced to do things against their will even if it comes to harm them.

    If we force women to carry to term and force them to use their bodies to sustain said life, then people should also be able to be forced to do organ donations against their will, while still alive, to sustain those who need them.

    If we also force women to carry to term, even at the cost of the life of the woman, then we should also force people to give up critical organs, like a heart, liver or any other organs people only have 1 of required to live to let someone else live.

    Otherwise, it would be hypocritical to do so.

  7. #567
    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    Question I have should I be able to forcefully take, lets say, your kidney/lung/part of your intestine, if I am in need of it as it is to keep me alive?
    This is exactly why quibbling over the status of the fetus is irrelevant. And it's exactly why being anti-abortion was never about the "sanctity of life" or whatever morally-superior horseshit they pretend it is. It's about power, and "those sluts should have kept their legs closed."
    Last edited by s_bushido; 2022-05-04 at 10:48 AM.

  8. #568
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    This is exactly why quibbling over the status of the fetus is irrelevant. And it's exactly why being anti-abortion was never about the "sanctity of life" or whatever morally-superior horseshit they pretend it is. It's about power, and "those sluts should have kept their legs closed."
    Yep, they struck down the mask and vaccine mandates, because of bodily autonomy, but are now doing this? Because what? It isn't bodily autonomy. It is religious bullshit. Same with Alito looking at banning gay marriage, sodomy, contraception and interracial marriage.

  9. #569
    I am Murloc! Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    Question I have should I be able to forcefully take, lets say, your kidney/lung/part of your intestine, if I am in need of it as it is to keep me alive? Remember, RvW is about bodily autonomy. If women lose theirs, so should everyone else and be forced to do things against their will even if it comes to harm them.

    If we force women to carry to term and force them to use their bodies to sustain said life, then people should also be able to be forced to do organ donations against their will, while still alive, to sustain those who need them.

    If we also force women to carry to term, even at the cost of the life of the woman, then we should also force people to give up critical organs, like a heart, liver or any other organs people only have 1 of required to live to let someone else live.

    Otherwise, it would be hypocritical to do so.
    Liver regrows after transplant, but we cannot forcefully take a liver for transplant.
    You can live "normally" with one kidney, so surely we could take one. But no.

    If you aren't an organ donor when you die, hospitals legally cannot take organs to save another person. We give dead people more control over their body than a living woman.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Yep, they struck down the mask and vaccine mandates, because of bodily autonomy, but are now doing this? Because what? It isn't bodily autonomy. It is religious bullshit. Same with Alito looking at banning gay marriage, sodomy, contraception and interracial marriage.
    They aren't directly banning it. They are making rights that were determined to belong to the people to the states instead.

    That's the issue they are reinterpreting Roe v Wade via the tenth amendment assuming the states are given powers over people as priority, and not people.

    The 9th Amendment is clear there are rights not listed in the Constitution, so the argument "This isn't a right listed in the constitution" is a bs argument on the fact of it.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  10. #570
    I am Murloc! Poopymonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    I hate to keep banging the drum, but there’s that uncertainty factor again with the legal definition which again is why I really don’t want the law involved, and yet 8 1/2 months along, pretty sure there should be legal protections as you say. There are circumstances where killing is legal (self-defense, capital punishment) I feel like there needs to be a shift in society towards both acknowledging that abortion is at the very least killing of a life and acceptance of if not always approval for the act. Because I totally understand those who say it’s ending a human life as well as those saying the mother should have a say to a greater or lesser extent depending on circumstances.

    Btw I also agree drugs should be decriminalized and I’d also go as far as abolishing the DEA. I don’t really fit neatly into the ‘far-right fascist’ bin several posters like to toss me into.
    The law is already involved in life in the US. We decree with an EILI5 class that you can drive at 16. We deem you fit, by dint of simply having survived to a certain point, to vote at 18 legally. You can start trying to kill someone the government tells you to at 18 by legally joining the military. You can start trying to kill yourself at 18 by legally purchasing cigarettes. You can't legally drink until you're 21. You're your parents problem until you are 18. Sure, you might be Wile E Coyote, Super Genius, levels of brainmeats. You might have 90 year old man nutsack quantity of brain wrinkles. But you don't get shit until you pass those arbitrary numbers set by law.

    Unless we want to rework EVERYTHING so that life starts at conception, good luck getting your exact birthday. Especially in winter in northern states when entertainment during power outages from blizzards is sex. For multiple night in a row. Or newlyweds fucking like their lives depend on it. Birth certificates? Insurance? Social Security? Retirement? Anything age related has to kicked back 9 months.

    If we want to arbitrarily assign a point (X months), then do it. No floating points. No "But my baby is developing fast". None of that bullshit. If driving, smoking, going to war, and drinking can all be given arbitrary points in a lifespan legally, then the start of the clock for those needs a singular point. Personally, first breath outside the host works for me. That's the current standard. Just be ready to fuck around with all the numbers of a persons life if you choose otherwise.

    I mean, if you believe abortion is murder, how can you even think that a woman would be a fit parent if (again in your mind) she wanted to kill the kid?
    Last edited by Poopymonster; 2022-05-04 at 11:19 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok

  11. #571
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    The 9th Amendment is clear there are rights not listed in the Constitution, so the argument "This isn't a right listed in the constitution" is a bs argument on the fact of it.
    True, but lets be honest your politician sit on their laurel on that shit not just current democrats. A congress pass law, not the court. Most other western countries these laws are set in by legislation and no longer challenged. If you actually want to protect rights, you cannot use broad language like the 9th. Now your democrats cant do shit with 50 seats in congress, but that wasent always the case since 1973.

  12. #572
    So people are warning women living in Red states to turn off their location services on their phones, delete period tracking apps, and to only buy feminine hygiene products, Plan B and pregnancy tests with cash.
    Fairy tales are more than true–not because they tell us dragons exist, but because they tell us dragons can be beaten. -G. K. Chesterton & Neil Gaiman

  13. #573
    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    I dunno, the mere fact of the physical necessity of a mother not only for life but perpetuation of the human species puts this in a singular category not well covered by legal precedent in other areas. It’s a unique issue in law in my opinion.
    "Women do not have the right to bodily autonomy because we must breed them to perpetuate the species."

    That is you. What the fuck is wrong with you?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    So people are warning women living in Red states to turn off their location services on their phones, delete period tracking apps, and to only buy feminine hygiene products, Plan B and pregnancy tests with cash.
    Reasonable. Gilead is here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  14. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    True, but lets be honest your politician sit on their laurel on that shit not just current democrats. A congress pass law, not the court. Most other western countries these laws are set in by legislation and no longer challenged. If you actually want to protect rights, you cannot use broad language like the 9th. Now your democrats cant do shit with 50 seats in congress, but that wasent always the case since 1973.
    The issue is that while Democrats have 50 seats in Congress now, the only way to protect it fully is with an Amendment to the Constitution and that won't happen because 50 senators isn't enough.

    Also, as it stands right now, only 49 Senators would vote for the bill while Manchin is questionable if they would vote yes. It was Sinema and Manchin, but Sinema came out and voiced her support for the bill.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  15. #575
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    If you aren't an organ donor when you die, hospitals legally cannot take organs to save another person. We give dead people more control over their body than a living woman.
    Yes, but you cannot fuck and breed a corpse, nor can a corpse make you a sammich. Cuz let's be honest here, that's what this is about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  16. #576
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    The issue is that while Democrats have 50 seats in Congress now, the only way to protect it fully is with an Amendment to the Constitution and that won't happen because 50 senators isn't enough.

    Also, as it stands right now, only 49 Senators would vote for the bill while Manchin is questionable if they would vote yes. It was Sinema and Manchin, but Sinema came out and voiced her support for the bill.
    Sinema is against getting rid of filibuster to get it done so her "support" is as flimsy as her being a democrat.

  17. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Sinema is against getting rid of filibuster to get it done so her "support" is as flimsy as her being a democrat.
    Yeah, I know. I was speaking in a best case scenario.

    It is annoying that I live in a country where Politicians can lie while technically not lying.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  18. #578
    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    I dunno, the mere fact of the physical necessity of a mother not only for life but perpetuation of the human species puts this in a singular category not well covered by legal precedent in other areas. It’s a unique issue in law in my opinion.
    Well, if you wanted to show what you and people like you think of women, you certainly did that here. Vile.

  19. #579
    BREAKING NEWS: Canada announces that it will “certainly” allow American women to go to Canada to receive abortion care if Roe v. Wade is overturned because EVERY woman in the world “deserves access.” RT TO THANK CANADA!

    Since I follow some lefties I get the Occupy Democrats Twitter feed into my timeline and they post some of the funniest, craziest tweets ever.

    This tweet is crazy, This twee is almost appears to be as if this is a victory. Who cares if Canada allows access to woman's care. A woman would need a passport, ID to travel as funny enough the main thing we fight is Voter ID as a restriction here.

    Then some of the replies is are just as crazy. These people and Occupy Democrat are out of touch.
    “There is a cult of ignorance in the United States…. [It is] nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’”

    -Isaac Asimov

  20. #580
    I am Murloc! Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    BREAKING NEWS: Canada announces that it will “certainly” allow American women to go to Canada to receive abortion care if Roe v. Wade is overturned because EVERY woman in the world “deserves access.” RT TO THANK CANADA!

    Since I follow some lefties I get the Occupy Democrats Twitter feed into my timeline and they post some of the funniest, craziest tweets ever.

    This tweet is crazy, This twee is almost appears to be as if this is a victory. Who cares if Canada allows access to woman's care. A woman would need a passport, ID to travel as funny enough the main thing we fight is Voter ID as a restriction here.

    Then some of the replies is are just as crazy. These people and Occupy Democrat are out of touch.
    So, you don't understand anything and that's why you find it funny.

    I wouldn't personally advertise that I find things funny because of my ignorance on it.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

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