1. #761
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    I am in my late 30s, I had a woman in her 20s ask me out for a drink and I said no because it was too weird for me.

    I cannot understand why someone wants a spouse that they are old enough to be the grandparent of.
    Because they are sexually attracted to it and know they will have a hot wife until they die and who will be stuck taking care of them well past their prime and into hers. They don't love the girl in that way. The child is their property and the marriage allowed them to stake that claim as they stake her every chance they get.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  2. #762
    To add to my take in Biden thread, I wonder how much push it will take to push Dems and our so called Left to react. First off, people need to get out and vote and if they see what's going on will they at least go out and vote on say this single issue. Second as I have stated the Dems are passive aggressive wussies and now and the past they really didn't do anything to push protecting rights.

    The frightening part is by the time people get motivated on both sides it might a moot point.
    Democrats are the best! I will never ever question a Democrat again. I LOVE the Democrats!

  3. #763
    Schumer is finally on fire and I love it. His press conference with fellow Democrat senators had the energy needed to get the message across.

    Each senator will be forced to pick a side and that decision will follow them forever in regards to women's (human) rights.

    We need more of this. No more simply hiding behind the filibuster.
    Looking for <Good Quotes for Signature>.

  4. #764
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omerome View Post
    Schumer is finally on fire and I love it. His press conference with fellow Democrat senators had the energy needed to get the message across.

    Each senator will be forced to pick a side and that decision will follow them forever in regards to women's (human) rights.

    We need more of this. No more simply hiding behind the filibuster.
    I'll hold off until the party whips its spoilers into shape or lets them no support ends once the seat is up for reelection. Tired of all the preaching and no action while the GOP chips away at the democracy.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  5. #765
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    I'm just stating how ridiculous it is to put a 6 week clock on it. Discover your pregnant at 5.5 weeks and you have 3 days to decide if you want to keep it. I have a feeling that would force a lot of women to make a decision to abort they might not have made if they weren't fighting against the clock.

    Or discover at 6 weeks and be told "Oh daaaang...if only you got here yesterday."
    So long as you don't feed disinformation. Plenty of people think abortion is banned nationally if Roe is reversed (which might be a realpolitik aim from your side).

    No I didn't bruh.
    I also didn't say you were detached from reality. But you saying that I did say that is a strong argument that you might be.
    Well, if you don't stand behind things you wrote, I think we're done here.

    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    The only solution is a national one - no ban, ever, at all. Period.

    In no other circumstance in the United States is a person required to sacrifice their body to save another. That is the beginning and the end of the conversation.
    The only solution to a country so much in disagreement on what constitutes a body worth saving is local legislatures persuading and voting on the compromise. If the country saw it your way, not a pregnancy but a sacrifice, not many voices but one national diktat, and one beginning and end, then you'd have a point here.

    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    When you argue that states' rights supersede the rights of citizens of this country, that's exactly what you're doing. I'm sorry if you're incapable of comprehending that.

    And if you don't believe that abortion is somehow "special," feel free to name another case where a person is required by law to sustain the life of another using their own body. I'll wait.
    The obvious point being that people disagree on the "rights of citizens." In this case, the rights of the most vulnerable future citizens of this country. The birth canal is the uber-bestower of rights to too many.

    Quote Originally Posted by MuH sTaTe LiNeS View Post
    A national ban makes total sense. It will save the most amount of lives and not let people just go to the state next door to get an abortion done.

    Hopefully the GOP can pull off wins in 2022/24 and get this done.
    I would prefer if the national government thinks of itself as a bit player in all this. The disconnected elites in Washington DC have no business prescribing social legislation for the whole country. The federal government that can correct every wrong that you find most salient can also take away every freedom you count dear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    Why don't you go fucking compromise on your OWN RIGHTS?
    I scratch just a little at your presumption and "your side is the one that won't compromise" becomes "no compromise is possible." I wanted to demonstrate just that on your first response post, and you've happily obliged me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canpinter View Post
    I'd encourage everyone to be as openly rude insulting and mocking of anyone the see in public wearing "pro life" or trump clothing hats bumper stickers and the the like. Make these people ashamed to show their faces.
    This is the status quo; a shocking change would be treating them with respect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    You're missing the point that many anti-abortion positions are based on the duty of the state to protect individuals. And since nobody can really define when an "individual" is formed, is why this is such a difficult issue. This is the cleanest way to put it, leaving religion and other biases out of it. To say it's solely a healthcare decision or solely a women's rights issue is not portraying the issue fairly. Not saying that's my personal view, only that other views exist and can't just be so easily discarded.
    I think any fair reading of this thread proves the modern pro-choice movement holds 1) It should be solely a woman-and-doctor "healthcare decision" and "women's rights issue" 2) "when an individual is formed" isn't actually a question 3) other views can be easily discarded.

    I don't think the opposing side, or at least the major one expressed here, can be any more transparent. Re-read a 20-page chunk, and start on whatever page you wish, and tell me people are wrestling with the multiple opinions on the subject and want to see them integrated and appreciated even in disagreement.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  6. #766
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    The obvious point being that people disagree on the "rights of citizens." In this case, the rights of the most vulnerable future citizens of this country.
    No, they don't. I don't see any pro-lifer insisting that people be forced to donate blood or organs - so clearly they understand the concept of bodily autonomy.

    It's almost as if their arguments are fundamentally nonsensical and made in bad faith.

    I would prefer if the national government thinks of itself as a bit player in all this. The disconnected elites in Washington DC have no business prescribing social legislation for the whole country. The federal government that can correct every wrong that you find most salient can also take away every freedom you count dear.
    And this doesn't apply to state governments... why, exactly?
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  7. #767
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    And this doesn't apply to state governments... why, exactly?
    Because despite states varying WILDLY in terms of land-mass and population size, "states" are just the right size to enforce their values on others. Not too hot. Not too cold. Just right.

    They're the "Goldilocks measurement", apparently.

  8. #768
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    We're seeing it in the above "discussion" with thedang and in state legislations around the country - terminating a pregnancy, for any reason (including to save the life of the woman) is going to be classified as some form of homicide.

  9. #769
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post

    I think any fair reading of this thread proves the modern pro-choice movement holds 1) It should be solely a woman-and-doctor "healthcare decision" and "women's rights issue" 2) "when an individual is formed" isn't actually a question 3) other views can be easily discarded.

    I don't think the opposing side, or at least the major one expressed here, can be any more transparent. Re-read a 20-page chunk, and start on whatever page you wish, and tell me people are wrestling with the multiple opinions on the subject and want to see them integrated and appreciated even in disagreement.
    Of course not. It's the usual shouting down, hand waving and dismissal of anything other than groupthink. Especially for something as complicated as abortion.

  10. #770
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Because despite states varying WILDLY in terms of land-mass and population size, "states" are just the right size to enforce their values on others. Not too hot. Not too cold. Just right.

    They're the "Goldilocks measurement", apparently.
    It still begs the question of "why, though?"

    If the argument is that the states are better guarantors of personal liberties and more representative of their citizens, what stops the argument from being taken to its logical extent - that individual people are more representative of their needs and beliefs and capable of making their own decis-- oh, wait. I just described the pro-choice position. Funny that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  11. #771
    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    Especially for something as complicated as abortion.
    Y'all are literally the only ones making health care complicated by trying to insert "big government" into personal health care decisions.

  12. #772
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    We're seeing it in the above "discussion" with thedang and in state legislations around the country - terminating a pregnancy, for any reason (including to save the life of the woman) is going to be classified as some form of homicide.
    He wrote too much dumb shit for me to quote and debunk but his polemic against the federal government removing rights is fucking hilarious because the God damn states are about to do exactly that...
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  13. #773
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    Of course not. It's the usual shouting down, hand waving and dismissal of anything other than groupthink. Especially for something as complicated as abortion.
    You keep dodging this question: exactly why is abortion 'complicated'?

    There is no other circumstance in which it is considered acceptable for an individual to be entitled to another's bodily parts even if doing so would save that individual's life. Very simple. So what makes abortion different?
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  14. #774
    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    Of course not. It's the usual shouting down, hand waving and dismissal of anything other than groupthink. Especially for something as complicated as abortion.
    Yes, "complicated." Just like the "controversy" over whether or not the universe was actually conjured into existence by magic 6,000 years ago.

  15. #775
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Literally has nothing to do with anything here, FYI. Like, I get what you're trying to do, but you've missed the ball bigly.
    Well I'm certainly proud of your character development. You went from being critical of those who chose not to vaccinate to being the champion of body autonomy.

  16. #776
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    Well I'm certainly proud of your character development. You went from being critical of those who chose not to vaccinate to being the champion of body autonomy.
    The two aren't remotely comparable, habibi.

    Having or not having an abortion is not a matter of public health, vaccines are. There is no such thing as an unwanted abortion epidemic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  17. #777
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    Well I'm certainly proud of your character development. You went from being critical of those who chose not to vaccinate to being the champion of body autonomy.
    Yo, can I catch the pregnancy? Like, if I'm in a room full of pregnant women do I, as a cis dude, have to worry about getting pregnant and bringing that pregnancy home to my family?

    Note: I never backed universal mandates. I however do still fully support businesses choosing not to do business with unvaccinated customers. Just as I support them choosing not to do business with vaccinated customers.

  18. #778
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Note: I never backed universal mandates. I however do still fully support businesses choosing not to do business with unvaccinated customers. Just as I support them choosing not to do business with vaccinated customers.
    Also this.

    People are not being charged with the force of law for refusal to vaccinate, nor should they be. What they are being denied is participation in public spheres where their decision not to vaccinate puts others at risk.

    Contrast this to pro-life legislation which puts women and providers (but never the men who were responsible for the pregnancy, oddly enough) at risk of being charged with a misdemeanor or felony for terminating a pregnancy even if not doing so would be fatal to the woman in question.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  19. #779
    The Undying
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    Well I'm certainly proud of your character development. You went from being critical of those who chose not to vaccinate to being the champion of body autonomy.
    And here we can see the development and release of the neo-con woman haters next line of attack. The United States is truly fucked.

    We are witnessing what we knew had happened 30+ years ago, with the GQP losing national election after national election, and never holding the House/Senate, etc. They took to the streets, dominated local governments, and now a conservative minority is telling women that they have less rights than a corpse.

    Gilead here we come.

  20. #780
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    Well I'm certainly proud of your character development. You went from being critical of those who chose not to vaccinate to being the champion of body autonomy.
    I'm sure we're all aware that conservative morons tried to coopt pro-choice language in their quest to get as many people killed by covid as possible. But the two aren't analogous in the slightest.

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