1. #841
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Because despite states varying WILDLY in terms of land-mass and population size, "states" are just the right size to enforce their values on others. Not too hot. Not too cold. Just right.

    They're the "Goldilocks measurement", apparently.
    It still begs the question of "why, though?"

    If the argument is that the states are better guarantors of personal liberties and more representative of their citizens, what stops the argument from being taken to its logical extent - that individual people are more representative of their needs and beliefs and capable of making their own decis-- oh, wait. I just described the pro-choice position. Funny that.
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  2. #842
    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    Especially for something as complicated as abortion.
    Y'all are literally the only ones making health care complicated by trying to insert "big government" into personal health care decisions.

  3. #843
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    We're seeing it in the above "discussion" with thedang and in state legislations around the country - terminating a pregnancy, for any reason (including to save the life of the woman) is going to be classified as some form of homicide.
    He wrote too much dumb shit for me to quote and debunk but his polemic against the federal government removing rights is fucking hilarious because the God damn states are about to do exactly that...
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  4. #844
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    Of course not. It's the usual shouting down, hand waving and dismissal of anything other than groupthink. Especially for something as complicated as abortion.
    You keep dodging this question: exactly why is abortion 'complicated'?

    There is no other circumstance in which it is considered acceptable for an individual to be entitled to another's bodily parts even if doing so would save that individual's life. Very simple. So what makes abortion different?
    The Were/Was Army: "Nooo you can't just vaporize my entire armored division, we had such a manly recruitment ad!"
    The They/Them Army: "Omg integrated fire support?? Go off queen sksksks, JDAMs are such a gemini thing."

  5. #845
    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    Of course not. It's the usual shouting down, hand waving and dismissal of anything other than groupthink. Especially for something as complicated as abortion.
    Yes, "complicated." Just like the "controversy" over whether or not the universe was actually conjured into existence by magic 6,000 years ago.

  6. #846
    Old God Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Literally has nothing to do with anything here, FYI. Like, I get what you're trying to do, but you've missed the ball bigly.
    Well I'm certainly proud of your character development. You went from being critical of those who chose not to vaccinate to being the champion of body autonomy.

  7. #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    Well I'm certainly proud of your character development. You went from being critical of those who chose not to vaccinate to being the champion of body autonomy.
    The two aren't remotely comparable, habibi.

    Having or not having an abortion is not a matter of public health, vaccines are. There is no such thing as an unwanted abortion epidemic.
    The Were/Was Army: "Nooo you can't just vaporize my entire armored division, we had such a manly recruitment ad!"
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  8. #848
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    Well I'm certainly proud of your character development. You went from being critical of those who chose not to vaccinate to being the champion of body autonomy.
    Yo, can I catch the pregnancy? Like, if I'm in a room full of pregnant women do I, as a cis dude, have to worry about getting pregnant and bringing that pregnancy home to my family?

    Note: I never backed universal mandates. I however do still fully support businesses choosing not to do business with unvaccinated customers. Just as I support them choosing not to do business with vaccinated customers.

  9. #849
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Note: I never backed universal mandates. I however do still fully support businesses choosing not to do business with unvaccinated customers. Just as I support them choosing not to do business with vaccinated customers.
    Also this.

    People are not being charged with the force of law for refusal to vaccinate, nor should they be. What they are being denied is participation in public spheres where their decision not to vaccinate puts others at risk.

    Contrast this to pro-life legislation which puts women and providers (but never the men who were responsible for the pregnancy, oddly enough) at risk of being charged with a misdemeanor or felony for terminating a pregnancy even if not doing so would be fatal to the woman in question.
    The Were/Was Army: "Nooo you can't just vaporize my entire armored division, we had such a manly recruitment ad!"
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  10. #850
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    Well I'm certainly proud of your character development. You went from being critical of those who chose not to vaccinate to being the champion of body autonomy.
    And here we can see the development and release of the neo-con woman haters next line of attack. The United States is truly fucked.

    We are witnessing what we knew had happened 30+ years ago, with the GQP losing national election after national election, and never holding the House/Senate, etc. They took to the streets, dominated local governments, and now a conservative minority is telling women that they have less rights than a corpse.

    Gilead here we come.

  11. #851
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    Well I'm certainly proud of your character development. You went from being critical of those who chose not to vaccinate to being the champion of body autonomy.
    I'm sure we're all aware that conservative morons tried to coopt pro-choice language in their quest to get as many people killed by covid as possible. But the two aren't analogous in the slightest.

  12. #852
    It's weird being a progressive and also being more pro-individual-liberty than the supposedly pro-individual-liberty conservatives. Like really weird.

  13. #853
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Yo, can I catch the pregnancy? Like, if I'm in a room full of pregnant women do I, as a cis dude, have to worry about getting pregnant and bringing that pregnancy home to my family?
    Don't even bother. We can see their next talking points coming out - and they still aren't even using religious freedoms yet. We are headed down a truly dark hole.

  14. #854
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post

    The only solution to a country so much in disagreement on what constitutes a body worth saving is local legislatures persuading and voting on the compromise. If the country saw it your way, not a pregnancy but a sacrifice, not many voices but one national diktat, and one beginning and end, then you'd have a point here.
    Not that I agree with the rest but this is a very shaky argument. States aren't monolithic entities, and many are so large that calling their legislation "local" affairs stretches the term to the breaking point. California and Texas are larger and more populous than many, if not most, countries. You say that the disconnected DC elites have no right dictating the terms of abortion, but at the same time by what right should similar elites in Sacramento or Austin decide for tens of millions of people despite the voting spread in those States hardly being overwhelmingly on one side or another. Cities in Texas are largely OK with abortion but would have the right taken away by more rural voters. Rural voters in California don't like abortion but will have to deal with the fact their state legislature will defend it come what may. States often aren't where the values conflict resides, rural vs urban voters is, and you can find both in any State, thus in every last one of those someone will get imposed something by disconnected elites.

    To say nothing of course, of the fact that some States are trying to make it illegal for women to leave them to get an abortion, which kneecaps any argument as to state's right then and there.

    And spare us the transparently dishonest woe is me attitude on "the other side's" unwillingness to compromise, when red-leaning State legislatures and their base aren't even trying to and some have already passed bills criminalizing abortions in any form, even before Roe v. Wade is actually repealed.
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  15. #855
    Quote Originally Posted by szechuan View Post
    BREAKING: Louisiana Republicans have voted HB 813 out of committee (7-2), defining a fertilized egg as a human. HB 813 makes abortion at any point a homicide, with no exception for minors, rape, incest, or ectopic pregnancies. This is beyond horrific.
    https://twitter.com/QasimRashid/stat...H3diqy7zg&s=19
    Here are some of the worst parts of it.

    E.(1) Any federal statute, regulation, treaty, executive order, or court ruling
    11 that purports to supersede, stay, or overrule this Section shall be in violation of the
    12 United States Constitution and the Constitution of Louisiana and is therefore void.
    13 (2) This state and its political subdivisions, and agents thereof, may disregard
    14 any part or whole of any federal court decision which purports to enjoin or void any
    15 provision of this Section.
    16 F. Pursuant to the powers granted to the Legislature by Article X, Part III,
    17 of the Constitution of Louisiana, any judge of this state who purports to enjoin, stay,
    18 overrule, or void any provision of this Section shall be subject to impeachment or
    19 removal.
    This means they are stating the Supremacy Clause is invalid and won't be followed and if any judge in the state tries to enforce it, they will be removed.

    EDIT: Ironic part is where they try and state that any federal statute would be in violation of the US Constitution but somehow also stating that the Supremacy Clause, which in is the Constitution, is unconstitutional. This has gone full Ouroboros.
    Last edited by gondrin; 2022-05-05 at 11:36 PM.

  16. #856
    Immortal unfilteredJW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    Well I'm certainly proud of your character development. You went from being critical of those who chose not to vaccinate to being the champion of body autonomy.
    What a complete clown statement.
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  17. #857
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Don't even bother. We can see their next talking points coming out - and they still aren't even using religious freedoms yet. We are headed down a truly dark hole.
    I'm gonna say it and I am not advocating it but I can see someone or a number of people sitting in office getting killed because of things like this.

  18. #858
    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    Here are some of the worst parts of it.
    They're basically just taking the role of that one kid who says they've got an invulnerability shield when playing pretend with their friends. Also they can fly. And have laser eyes.

    Under normal circumstances, I'd incredulously ask "do they really think they can get away with that?" but given recent events...

  19. #859
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    I'm gonna say it and I am not advocating it but I can see someone or a number of people sitting in office getting killed because of things like this.
    We already had violence before the conservative majority took over. I can't see them letting up now that it's effectively working.

  20. #860
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    We already had violence before the conservative majority took over. I can't see them letting up now that it's effectively working.
    Be prepared for the "Actcuallleeeeee Steve Scalise!" posts.

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