1. #941
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Let’s get grisly here. Keep in mind, you stand for this.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deat...a_Halappanavar
    “ On 21 October 2012, Halappanavar, then 17 weeks pregnant, was examined at University Hospital Galway after complaining of back pain, but was ultimately discharged without a diagnosis. She returned to the hospital later that day, this time complaining of lower pressure, a sensation she described as feeling "something coming down," and a subsequent examination found that the gestational sac was protruding from her body. She was admitted to hospital, as it was determined that miscarriage was unavoidable, and several hours later, just after midnight on 22 October, her water broke but did not expel the fetus.[8]: 22–26 [8]: 29 [9] The following day, on 23 October, Halappanavar discussed abortion with her consulting physician but her request was promptly refused, as Irish law at that time forbade abortion if a fetal heartbeat was still present.[8]: 33 [10] Afterwards, Halappanavar developed sepsis and, despite doctors' efforts to treat her, had a cardiac arrest at 1:09 AM on 28 October, at the age of 31, and died.“

    An abortion would’ve saved her life. Ireland has one of the best healthcare systems in the world. America’s is an embarrassment. I can’t blame women for being terrified.
    And worth noting: Ireland ended the ban in 2018. There are still some limits (12 weeks), but with broad exceptions if the health of the woman is at risk.

    While the world moves forward in protecting bodily autonomy, America is sliding backwards. And we're supposed to be the "land of freedom".

  2. #942
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post

    Also for what it's worth I think comparing people who disapprove of abortion to proponents of slavery does not serve your side well.
    sorry if pointing out their end game upsets you? like, we already have republican senators saying the states should decide if they should allow interracial marriage. if conservatives had their way they would reverse every legal decision and legislation back to the 1830's. they are totally on board with allowing the states to decide if owning chattel slaves is legal or not.

  3. #943
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    72,149
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    I appreciate your viewpoint and your passion, but I do not think you'll change my mind, to me abortion is a form of murder, the deliberate destruction of human life, immature as it may be.
    Nobody wants to convince you of anything. You've chosen to believe a baseless, misogynistic thing, and reject all evidence and reason that argues against it.

    The goal is to underscore precisely how abusive and meritless your viewpoint is to everyone else. Your religious extremism and desire to subjugate women as 2nd-class citizens is all we need to condemn you and your views.

    Also for what it's worth I think comparing people who disapprove of abortion to proponents of slavery does not serve your side well.
    You're at least as bad as proponents of slavery. You're pushing religious extremism with the intent of marginalizing and abusing innocent women, the overwhelming majority of whom don't share your religious views. They may be separate issues, but the venomous heart at the core isn't particularly different; in both cases, you deny the basic humanity of those you seek to victimize.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Kinda hard to say, "Life is sacred!" while doing nothing to actually show you believe it outside of attacking womens bodily autonomy.
    Also that any statement about how "sacred" life may be is, categorically, a religious view, and thus not a basis for secular law in any respect whatsoever.

    Religion can only be tolerated if it sticks to instructing followers how they should live their own lives. The moment it tells those followers how to force others to live their lives, it's violently oppressive and a threat to basic human decency and freedom, and should be treated accordingly.


  4. #944
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    I appreciate your viewpoint and your passion, but I do not think you'll change my mind, to me abortion is a form of murder, the deliberate destruction of human life, immature as it may be. No amount of talk about bodily autonomy will change that simple truth. And I really don't believe that the organ transplant analogy makes any sense, nobody wants to force people to donate organs against their will, people want to stop people from killing unborn children. And as I said previously forcing people to donate a kidney is not the same thing as stopping an abortion, since there is a difference between killing and not saving people. Another poster argued that an abortion is the same thing, i.e. choosing not to save the child. I disagree with that viewpoint strongly, you can't claim you're merely not saving a life when you are the direct cause of its death.

    Also for what it's worth I think comparing people who disapprove of abortion to proponents of slavery does not serve your side well.
    I bet your tune would change real fucking quick if they were coming after your penis and telling you what you can and can't do with it...

    - - - Updated - - -

    "No more masturbating cause life starts with sperm!"
    Fairy tales are more than true–not because they tell us dragons exist, but because they tell us dragons can be beaten. -G. K. Chesterton & Neil Gaiman

  5. #945
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    "No more masturbating cause life starts with sperm!"


    That moment when Monty Python is relevant again.

  6. #946
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    I appreciate your viewpoint and your passion, but I do not think you'll change my mind, to me abortion is a form of murder, the deliberate destruction of human life, immature as it may be. No amount of talk about bodily autonomy will change that simple truth.
    Magically enough that simple truth is rarely (if ever) true even for countries that aggressively punish abortion with criminal law penalties. For some inexplicable reason (that totes legit has nothing to do with the legislators responsible for it being full of shit) that's a separate crime from murder.


    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    And I really don't believe that the organ transplant analogy makes any sense, nobody wants to force people to donate organs against their will, people want to stop people from killing unborn children.
    Whatever people want to do or not has no bearing on the analogy. Them not wanting to only drives the point that anti-women folk are inconsistent hypocrites and the "pro-life" facade they choose to hide their anti-women agenda behind crumbles under slightest pressure.


    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Also for what it's worth I think comparing people who disapprove of abortion to proponents of slavery does not serve your side well.
    Yeah, I'd say the fact that you're beyond comparable to proponents of slavery does not serve your side well, but you do you, I guess.

  7. #947
    Elemental Lord Santti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    8,666
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    That moment when Monty Python is relevant again.
    I like to think of George Carlin.

    "Not every ejaculation deserves a name."
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransath View Post
    Money laundering, especially prior to his election? I couldn't give a flying fuck.

  8. #948
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    I bet your tune would change real fucking quick if they were coming after your penis and telling you what you can and can't do with it...

    - - - Updated - - -

    "No more masturbating cause life starts with sperm!"
    "If men can get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament." I think Gloria Steinem said that.

  9. #949
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    "If men can get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament." I think Gloria Steinem said that.
    Excuse me, that's "Saint Steinem" according to J. Allen Brak, formerly of Blizzard Entertainment.

  10. #950
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    ██████
    Posts
    24,443
    How come measures to outlaw abortion never come with increased pressure for the father to take care of the kid or other measures that protect life after delivery?

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  11. #951
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    The obvious point being that people disagree on the "rights of citizens." In this case, the rights of the most vulnerable future citizens of this country. The birth canal is the uber-bestower of rights to too many.
    "Future citizen" isn't a thing in law and, weirdly enough, no Bible-thumping state that gets triggered by abortion being legal is willing to bestow citizenship, or even personhood (with all the legal protection it entails) to fetuses. Because they are full of shit and this whole thing is about enforcing their religious dogma upon women and has squat to do with protecting lives. There's a reason why red states keep defunding prenatal or postnatal care.


    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    This is the status quo; a shocking change would be treating them with respect.
    People deserve only as much respect as they earned and right wingers do everything in their power to earn none. That's their choice, I suppose, but they don't get to then whine about not being respected.


    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I think any fair reading of this thread proves the modern pro-choice movement holds 1) It should be solely a woman-and-doctor "healthcare decision" and "women's rights issue" 2) "when an individual is formed" isn't actually a question 3) other views can be easily discarded.

    I don't think the opposing side, or at least the major one expressed here, can be any more transparent. Re-read a 20-page chunk, and start on whatever page you wish, and tell me people are wrestling with the multiple opinions on the subject and want to see them integrated and appreciated even in disagreement.
    Women's bodily autonomy is indeed a women's rights issue, shocking as it may be to people civilizationally stuck in the neolithic. And please drop this pretentious pearl clutching shtick about not all opinions being treated equally when not all opinions are equal to begin with. Opinions like yours where "Akshually it's OK for women to be subjugated a bit. Why can't liberals be reasonable and compromise on that?" deserve no appreciation whatsoever.

  12. #952
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    72,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Women's bodily autonomy is indeed a women's rights issue, shocking as it may be to people civilizationally stuck in the neolithic. And please drop this pretentious pearl clutching shtick about not all opinions being treated equally when not all opinions are equal to begin with. Opinions like yours where "Akshually it's OK for women to be subjugated a bit. Why can't liberals be reasonable and compromise on that?" deserve no appreciation whatsoever.
    "Why won't anyone respect our venomous and meritless bigotry" is the weirdest fuckin' take of the '20s.


  13. #953
    Do anti-abortion states truly care about women and families? These three figures answered that question.


    So few states have paid family leave policy. That's disgusting.


    Go Texas!


    Look at the southern states.

  14. #954
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Look at the southern states.
    Sure hard to come to another conclusion than, "Republicans would like women to go back to essentially being chattel property without rights."

    I mean, for all the big game they talk about "the sanctity of life" it's the southern states with strict anti-abortion laws (or plans for them) that have the highest infant and maternal mortality rates in the country.

    *channels inner Kanye*

    Republicans don't care about women.

  15. #955
    I am Murloc! Poopymonster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Neverland Ranch Survivor
    Posts
    5,930
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Sure hard to come to another conclusion than, "Republicans would like women to go back to essentially being chattel property without rights."

    I mean, for all the big game they talk about "the sanctity of life" it's the southern states with strict anti-abortion laws (or plans for them) that have the highest infant and maternal mortality rates in the country.

    *channels inner Kanye*

    Republicans don't care about women.
    They are about them for as long as it takes to create a heterosexual fuck trophy to carry on the family name.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok

  16. #956
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    33,291
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    I appreciate your viewpoint and your passion, but I do not think you'll change my mind, to me abortion is a form of murder, the deliberate destruction of human life, immature as it may be. No amount of talk about bodily autonomy will change that simple truth. And I really don't believe that the organ transplant analogy makes any sense, nobody wants to force people to donate organs against their will, people want to stop people from killing unborn children. And as I said previously forcing people to donate a kidney is not the same thing as stopping an abortion, since there is a difference between killing and not saving people. Another poster argued that an abortion is the same thing, i.e. choosing not to save the child. I disagree with that viewpoint strongly, you can't claim you're merely not saving a life when you are the direct cause of its death.
    Not donating a kidney is a direct cause of someone's death.

  17. #957
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Not donating a kidney is a direct cause of someone's death.
    Not donating blood might result in the direct cause of death for someone, too. And donating blood isn't even very risky for the donor.

    Guess we need to start mandating blood donations! Bring on the big-government control of our bodily autonomy, apparently! That's what conservatives keep saying, at least.

  18. #958
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    33,291
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    How come measures to outlaw abortion never come with increased pressure for the father to take care of the kid or other measures that protect life after delivery?
    Because the conservative movement, enshrined in the hatred/ignorance/bigotry we see in posts from @tehdang and others in this thread, care not a whim for the child, and only care about subjugating women. Their talking points are rolling out from the GQP site. And remember, even though Abortion Rights on the conservative side are a religious argument, they don't even need that point to win this debate and issue.

    And they are winning.

    By 2024 a woman will be in jail, for a version of homicide, for having an abortion. By 2030 there might be a national anti-abortion law, outlawing it in all 50 states, relying on what Barrett's cult has ginned up to justify it.

    The United States won't turn into something like Gilead overnight. But by 2050 we'll see something like that show's dystopian atmosphere when it comes to both women's rights and privacy overall.

  19. #959
    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

  20. #960
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    *stupid people image*
    Doublethink plus good!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •