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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    You'll be surprised to know that the 14th amendment doesn't mention abortion, and it appears several justices don't think it's implied to some degree. Legal scholars will both agree and disagree with that, depending on who you ask. Remember, stuff has a greater claim to "fucking constitutionally protected right," because it's actually mentioned in the constitution. If you have problems with the constitutional right to peaceably assemble, or the right to bear arms, then you're coming smack dab against the constitution.
    No, it doesn't mention abortion, but it does mention bodily autonomy. The 14th Amendment was used to to justify the way they ruled in Roe V Wade.

    There isn't a legal scholar ANYWHERE that will disagree with bodily autonomy.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    sorry, but that's gross.
    Not as gross as telling a woman she has to give birth to a child with a hole in it's stomach.
    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

  3. #103
    Moderator Crissi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Not as gross as telling a woman she has to give birth to a child with a hole in it's stomach.
    fetal birth defects that would result in the baby dying soon after birth fall under medical shit too. and most fetal birth defects that wouldnt result in death cna be detected before the 20 week cutoff, normally.

  4. #104
    It's been over 4 years but I hope all who chose to sat out 2016 don', can't say jack. Sadly this falls much on women than men, but voting has consequences.

    The next thing is besides the good ole 20 plus states, but any blue state that may swing Republican will get these laws. Perhaps a 60 majority or ironically the Republicans killing the filibuster making it a national law.

    Now there is always these polls where Rice v Wade was supported by almost 60%. Yet people who support seemed not to be the people who went out to vote. Personally I knew in 2016 there was a judge on the ticket.
    “There is a cult of ignorance in the United States…. [It is] nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’”

    -Isaac Asimov

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    yeah, I know that. Guy linked me a poll saying 60% of poeple want post 20 week abortion legalized and I wanted to know why that would be
    Because if it's not legal, a person can't legally get an abortion if their life is in danger from carrying the pregnancy. What are we even talking about here...

  6. #106
    Moderator Crissi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Because if it's not legal, a person can't legally get an abortion if their life is in danger from carrying the pregnancy. What are we even talking about here...
    Think we went off on a tangent because I said most poeple are against post 20 week abortions that arent for medical reasons. Just gonna drop it cause I think he and I might just be talking past eachother.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    @tehdang (not quoting that entire monster post) Except denying people of different races from marrying because of wanting to preserve purity is by definition bigoted, dude. SStrict interpretationism tends to result in that, because many rights that ensure we dont treat others like shit based on how they;re born arent defined in the constitution, because at the fucming time the founders thought said people were lesser. Same with gay marriage, which Alito explicitly targeted.
    I object not to your characterization of miscegenation, but what "shouldnt be left to [states]" from "historical bigotedness." You'd have the nation recovering from the civil war for every decade of the fifteen decades since. When Roe was enacted, thirty states were in the process of liberalizing abortion laws through the usual democratic form: legislators voting. But why have states and legislatures argue out the weeks of pregnancy/trimester and other states view the results/improvements/deteriorations when you can just have judicial fiat slam down on the table and shut it all down? I say the current rancor on judicial appointments is partly owed to the raw expression of judicial power that occurred in 1973. They wrote a trimester system that resembled an actual bill that might be passed by a legislature. No court deserves that power.

    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    The "potential life" argument is also bullshit, because it's, at its base, a religious argument, which has no place in our jurisprudence.

    What isn't up for argument is that it involves the private life of a woman, who does have that right to privacy. Just like gay men, and interracial couples.
    You'll be displeased to note that the "potentiality of human life"/"potential life," and the state's interests in both it and the pregnant woman, are part of jurisprudence because they're part of the Roe vs Wade decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    And almost all of your opinions and views are between terrible and just plain wrong. This is just another example of that.
    Hence, I was confused by the post I quoted. I've stated my opinions on a broad number of topics over time, and been subjected to criticism for them. Is this Shrodinger's Poster: You both haven't stated your views on subjects, but have also stated terrible and wrong views on subjects?
    Last edited by tehdang; 2022-05-03 at 05:07 AM.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Think we went off on a tangent because I said most poeple are against post 20 week abortions that arent for medical reasons.
    Doesn't really matter if abortions are flat-out illegal in the first place. The right must be established/protected before debates about its limits can mean anything.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    but voting has consequences.
    .
    yea and the dems have the house, pres and senate if they nuke filibuster, it does have consequences. crying about past elections with some guilt bullshit is nonsense. Dems have the power right now.

  10. #110
    The part that gets me the most is that there are exactly 0 birthing-capable women who have lived in a pre-roe world. Just set birthing age at puberty onset and Roe being 1973. That means the youngest ones are ~62ish years old now. Oldest natural birth is age 59.

    Absolutely nuts.

  11. #111
    Moderator Crissi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I object not to your characterization of miscegenation, but what "shouldnt be left to [states]" from "historical bigotedness." You'd have the nation recovering from the civil war for every decade of the fifteen decades since. When Roe was enacted, thirty states were in the process of liberalizing abortion laws through the usual democratic form: legislators voting. But why have states and legislatures argue out the weeks of pregnancy/trimester and other states view the results/improvements/deteriorations when you can just have judicial fiat slam down on the table and shut it all down? I say the current rancor on judicial appointments is partly owed to the raw expression of judicial power that occurred in 1973. They wrote a trimester system that resembled an actual bill that might be passed by a legislature. No court deserves that power.

    Still reading it ...
    Except the reason for many progress was because the court forced it. Texas would have never legalized inter racial marriage, gay sex, gay marriage, school integration, etc otherwise. The bigotry in the state legislature was too ingraned, and the voters were happy with it. Or are you ok for minority oppression to last much longer than it would if the court forced states to behave?

    and considering we have current lawmakers trying to make such things illegal again, its just proof the states cant really be trusted

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    fetal birth defects that would result in the baby dying soon after birth fall under medical shit too. and most fetal birth defects that wouldnt result in death cna be detected before the 20 week cutoff, normally.
    Not according to the kids of laws Republicans want to pass. They will only allow for abortion past 20 weeks if the mothers life is at risk.

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-...e-bill/36/text

    “(B) EXCEPTIONS.—Subparagraph (A) does not apply if—

    “(i) in reasonable medical judgment, the abortion is necessary to save the life of a pregnant woman whose life is endangered by a physical disorder, physical illness, or physical injury, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself, but not including psychological or emotional conditions;

    “(ii) the pregnancy is the result of rape against an adult woman, and at least 48 hours prior to the abortion—

    “(I) she has obtained counseling for the rape; or

    “(II) she has obtained medical treatment for the rape or an injury related to the rape; or

    “(iii) the pregnancy is a result of rape against a minor or incest against a minor, and the rape or incest has been reported at any time prior to the abortion to either—

    “(I) a government agency legally authorized to act on reports of child abuse; or

    “(II) a law enforcement agency.
    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    It's been over 4 years but I hope all who chose to sat out 2016 don', can't say jack. Sadly this falls much on women than men, but voting has consequences.

    The next thing is besides the good ole 20 plus states, but any blue state that may swing Republican will get these laws. Perhaps a 60 majority or ironically the Republicans killing the filibuster making it a national law.

    Now there is always these polls where Rice v Wade was supported by almost 60%. Yet people who support seemed not to be the people who went out to vote. Personally I knew in 2016 there was a judge on the ticket.
    @UnifiedDivide

    Told ya again.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    UnifiedDivide

    Told ya again.
    Maybe you should take your bullshit to private messages.

  15. #115
    Immortal unfilteredJW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    @UnifiedDivide

    Told ya again.
    Quit derailing.
    Blessed are the fornicates, may we bend down to be their whores. Blessed are the rich, may our labor deliver them more.
    Blessed are the envious; bless the slothful, the wrathful, the vain. Blessed are the gluttonous, may they feast us to famine and war.
    What of the pious, the pure of heart, the peaceful, the meek, the mourning, and the merciful? All doomed, all doomed

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    yea and the dems have the house, pres and senate if they nuke filibuster, it does have consequences. crying about past elections with some guilt bullshit is nonsense. Dems have the power right now.
    Yeah don't learn from history and realize elections have consequences.

    Your reply is as much bullshit in that the Dems would nuke the filibuster for Pro choice righs and I bet at least 1or 2 Dem Senators would dump on this.
    “There is a cult of ignorance in the United States…. [It is] nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’”

    -Isaac Asimov

  17. #117
    Moderator Crissi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Not according to the kids of laws Republicans want to pass. They will only allow for abortion past 20 weeks if the mothers life is at risk.

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-...e-bill/36/text
    Well fuck them then.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Maybe you should take your bullshit to private messages.
    I was pointing out how he said that it wouldn’t be brought up if I hadn’t said it.

    If you are mad at me for pointing it out, sorry but not really.

    Be mad at the people I quoted for their bullshit as well if you take it that personal.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by unfilteredJW View Post
    Quit derailing.
    No more derailing than the ones I quoted.

    Edit: I believe enough have posted to prove I was correct in what would be said.

    I’m off.

    Yes this is fucked up and shouldn’t have happened but those who blame the voters for not voting for someone who actively snubbed them instead of the politician who did it are blaming the wrong people.

    Later.
    Last edited by Fugus; 2022-05-03 at 05:00 AM.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    yea and the dems have the house, pres and senate if they nuke filibuster, it does have consequences. crying about past elections with some guilt bullshit is nonsense. Dems have the power right now.
    They tried. But two “Democrat” senators, one who openly jokes about switching parties, told them they cannot nuke the filibuster.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    Yeah don't learn from history and realize elections have consequences.

    Your reply is as much bullshit in that the Dems would nuke the filibuster for Pro choice righs and I bet at least 1or 2 Dem Senators would dump on this.
    ok what if u voted obama, clinton, biden and this still happens

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