1. #2281
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I'm desperately looking for silver linings. May never happen, but it would be wild if the ruling - which largely eliminates the fight over health care rights and access to abortions - results in considerably depressed Republican turnout for a while. Roe was a hugely animating issue for them, and while there are others like CRT or the "MIGRANT CARAVAN" and other shit, none of it comes close to how impactful the fight over Roe has been for them.

    It's most likely wishful thinking, but I'm looking for any reason to have some hope/optimism as millions of women have their bodily autonomy and right to make all their own health care decisions revoked from them by many states.
    The silver lining is hopefully enough of an energized left in the US to keep engaged from now for another 6ish years. This and the Jan 6th hearings are a hell of a one two punch. The midterms will be telling, and how much the dems can nationalize this in red states and purple states, because it really doesn’t matter in blue states. If only the dems were as relentless on what their constituents want as the republicans are.

  2. #2282
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Yeah, except that those poor people are also the ones dumb enough to keep voting for this. They cut their nose of to spite their face. Most of the poor people I know of who didn't support this are also smart enough to get around it.
    Sure. And I have no sympathy for "what? The face eating lion is eating my face??? WHAT??"

    But that's not everyone. There is no small amount of poor people who didn't support this, didn't vote for this, but are going to be hurt by this. Families will lose their mothers to pregnancies gone wrong. Husbands will lose their wives to botched secret abortions done out of desperation. People who opposed this.

    And that's really unfortunate.
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    It's called resistance / rebellion.
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    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  3. #2283
    With these decisions we have officially decided that guns have more rights than women this is absurd. Feel like I'm going to be sick. They are taking aim at contraception and gay marriage next. It's just beyond belief I've been expecting to wake up from a coma for half a decade and it just keeps getting worse. Many of the trigger laws don't even make exceptions for miscarriage we are going to have women in 2022 dying of sepsis because the dead fetus cannot legally be removed.

  4. #2284
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    A satisfied voter base is not a base motivated to vote.
    Just means they pivot the message to "They'll undo everything we've worked so hard to accomplish"... but it's basically the same tactic they've been using for decades now...Fear. Keep them afraid of what the Democrats will do.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  5. #2285
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Roflmao. You think Thomas isn’t speaking for the other 5 conservatives?
    No? I mean...they didn't sign it. And they could have.

    And ask gay people how that worked for them before the SCOTUS ruling.
    This isn't a light switch you realize. Everything changed when gay marriage was legalized and overturning Obergefell doesn't just magically undo all that.

    Look, I could very well be wrong about the outcome, but one thing I know I'm not wrong about is gay marriage isn't as clean an issue to resolve as abortion was.
    Forum badass alert:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  6. #2286
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    Sure. And I have no sympathy for "what? The face eating lion is eating my face??? WHAT??"

    But that's not everyone. There is no small amount of poor people who didn't support this, didn't vote for this, but are going to be hurt by this. Families will lose their mothers to pregnancies gone wrong. Husbands will lose their wives to botched secret abortions done out of desperation. People who opposed this.

    And that's really unfortunate.
    Agreed, the most we can do is educate them on the alternatives. But I think the vast majority of them will have access to a drug dealer and I can guarantee you that they will be selling morning after pills after this in those states and within a few months to a year there will be clinics setup along many of their borders.

    But it will suck for those who didn't vote for this and will stuck dealing with the fallout from it.
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  7. #2287
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    Regardless of where you stand on abortion - restricting and banning abortion is going to lead to more death and suffering. More women are going to have unsafe abortions and more women are going to die, more women are going to suffer through a pregnancy they don't want, more children are going to be born that are not wanted or loved by their parents and more children are going to end up in the system.
    Except these people don't care about women or born children.
    Forum badass alert:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  8. #2288
    Herald of the Titans CostinR's Avatar
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    While my views on abortions are mixed, to say the least there's a lot of family history for me, I am rather concerned we might see restrictions on contraceptives.

    What's next? Banning condoms? IUDs?
    "Life is one long series of problems to solve. The more you solve, the better a man you become.... Tribulations spawn in life and over and over again we must stand our ground and face them."

  9. #2289
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    Omg, it's so stupid that this is a re-occuring issue. I thought Roe v Wade was very reasonable for any country/state.

    Spirituality is the main problem here. Anti-abortion folks think that a zygote has a soul and it's up to them to save life and prevent murder. It's so absurd.
    Last edited by PC2; 2022-06-24 at 11:33 PM.

  10. #2290
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Just means they pivot the message to "They'll undo everything we've worked so hard to accomplish"... but it's basically the same tactic they've been using for decades now...Fear. Keep them afraid of what the Democrats will do.
    Except that historically hasn't worked. Otherwise Trump would have won again in 2020.
    Forum badass alert:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  11. #2291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    No? I mean...they didn't sign it. And they could have.

    This isn't a light switch you realize. Everything changed when gay marriage was legalized and overturning Obergefell doesn't just magically undo all that.

    Look, I could very well be wrong about the outcome, but one thing I know I'm not wrong about is gay marriage isn't as clean an issue to resolve as abortion was.
    Except, you are wrong about that. There are states who still have sodomy laws on the books and have it outline marriage is between a man and a woman.

    If you don't think it is going to be "as easy" you just aren't paying attention.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
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  12. #2292
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    Except these people don't care about women or born children.
    Then they should at least consider the costs to society (e.g. increased taxes, crime) that may directly concern them. It's a bit crass, but even selfish people should see the downsides of this ruling.
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

  13. #2293
    Immortal Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    While my views on abortions are mixed, to say the least there's a lot of family history for me, I am rather concerned we might see restrictions on contraceptives.

    What's next? Banning condoms? IUDs?
    They are going after that as well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    Then they should at least consider the costs to society (e.g. increased taxes, crime) that may directly concern them.
    I have asked people if they plan to help raise the kids.

    The answer I get is "It isn't their responsibility."
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  14. #2294
    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    While my views on abortions are mixed, to say the least there's a lot of family history for me, I am rather concerned we might see restrictions on contraceptives.

    What's next? Banning condoms? IUDs?
    When it comes to your views on abortion. If you are religious, let me ask you this,

    Do you believe that the human soul is a physical part of the body? Or do you think it is our consciousness, our ability to think, feel, and reason? Which do you think is your soul? Because if you feel it is your consciousness, then anytime before that develops, there is no soul and is not murder.

    And if you feel it isn't the consciousness, try and explain how the abortion is murder but unplugging a brain dead family member isn't.
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  15. #2295
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    No? I mean...they didn't sign it. And they could have.
    They all also said Roe v Wade was settled law in their confirmation hearings.

  16. #2296
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Agreed, the most we can do is educate them on the alternatives.
    I did read an encouraging article about using telehealth to get appointments for an abortion pill that can then be sent by federal mail which would prevent the state from being able to do anything to stop either of those.

    They could, of course, criminalize it - but they'd have to find out...so unless they go full on big brother (which OH BOY to see the hypocrisy of the right going all big government on this) there may be more access than conservatives thing.

    It still sucks but there are at least options. Unless it gets outlawed federally. Which...I don't think can happen given the ruling.
    Forum badass alert:
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    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  17. #2297
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    Then they should at least consider the costs to society (e.g. increased taxes, crime) that may directly concern them. It's a bit crass, but even selfish people should see the downsides of this ruling.
    But the relevant people here mainly care about the morality of the situation as they perceive it, not so much about a utilitarian cost-benefit analysis.

  18. #2298
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    Except that historically hasn't worked. Otherwise Trump would have won again in 2020.
    Trump got more votes in 2020 than he did in 2016.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  19. #2299
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Except, you are wrong about that.
    Except I'm not.

    Unless they decide that states can ignore contracts made in other states this issue isn't as clean as you want it to be. The original SCOTUS ruling made that clear.
    Forum badass alert:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  20. #2300
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    I did read an encouraging article about using telehealth to get appointments for an abortion pill that can then be sent by federal mail which would prevent the state from being able to do anything to stop either of those.

    They could, of course, criminalize it - but they'd have to find out...so unless they go full on big brother (which OH BOY to see the hypocrisy of the right going all big government on this) there may be more access than conservatives thing.

    It still sucks but there are at least options. Unless it gets outlawed federally. Which...I don't think can happen given the ruling.
    I know people who as early as this year got packages of weed in the mail from California without issue. Can definitely see them getting the pills the same way.

    And they can't outlaw it federally, the Supreme Court was able to strip away protections of it but they don't have any ability to ban it themselves but Moscow Mitch the Bitch has already talked about trying to ban it federally if they retook Congress, the Senate, and Presidency only to have the rest of the GOP say "Nope" on that one because they know what it would do to them and how long it would last.
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