1. #2421
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    That's chicken little levels of absurd. The support for gay marriage has skyrocketed over the last 20 years MUCH less making homosexuality a crime. I mean are you serious here? You think in 30 years we're going to criminalize homosexuality? C'mon.
    Whether it will be illegal in 30 years is somewhat irrelevant, at the moment. But if you don't think that basic rights like that will not have to be fought for (AGAIN) as a result of this ruling in ultra conservative states then you haven't been paying attention.

  2. #2422
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    This is the problem with Democrats in general. You're in Congress right now. Fix it now.
    How? I hear all this outrage at how weak the Dems are...but there is still the reality that they don't have the political strength to do anything major. That's the reality and not a factor at how tough or aggressive they are.

    Maybe Biden has some path via executive orders - I don't know. But it would need to be something that would survive a legal challenge otherwise literally all they have left is rhetoric, meaningless gestures, and fundraising.
    Forum badass alert:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  3. #2423
    I am Murloc! Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drutt View Post
    I suspect this may become a victory that the Republicans will come to rue.
    Republican ranks have been dwindling. Less people are registering as them, they are a dying party. Democrats aren't exactly healthy either. People are tired of the political back and forth. That's not saying one party good and the other is bad, or they are both as bad.

    Republicans are wondering why young people aren't Republican and they have to find the few who are and beat them like a dead horse when liberal youths are a dime a dozen.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
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  4. #2424
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    You think in 30 years we're going to criminalize homosexuality? C'mon.
    5 years ago would you have said abortion would be criminalized within 5 years?

  5. #2425
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    The support for gay marriage has skyrocketed over the last 20 years MUCH less making homosexuality a crime. I mean are you serious here? You think in 30 years we're going to criminalize homosexuality? C'mon.
    Polling showed that the majority of americans support the right to choose regarding abortion rights. Polls mean absolutely nothing.
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  6. #2426
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Whether it will be illegal in 30 years is somewhat irrelevant, at the moment. But if you don't think that basic rights like that will not have to be fought for (AGAIN) as a result of this ruling in ultra conservative states then you haven't been paying attention.
    Oh, they will be fought over, but this is a fight the ultra conservatives can't win as the majority of the nation will actively defy them and will AT BEST be the equivalent of prohibition if they got enough power to even force the issue as a large enough level and at the state levels will be defeated by virtually every surrounding state, every drug dealer in that state, every other first world nation on the planet helping us including our neighbors to the north and south, and so on.

    Outlawing abortion will work as good as no drinking laws as a dry county.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
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  7. #2427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    As for the structure of Obamacare, blame Lieberman for being an ass.
    Even if they do codify Roe now, it will probably be before a heartbeat because the party will break and demand compromise with themselves.

  8. #2428
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Republican ranks have been dwindling. Less people are registering as them, they are a dying party. Democrats aren't exactly healthy either. People are tired of the political back and forth. That's not saying one party good and the other is bad, or they are both as bad.

    Republicans are wondering why young people aren't Republican and they have to find the few who are and beat them like a dead horse when liberal youths are a dime a dozen.
    What needs to happen is for the Republicans to die off and the Democrats split into two parties, we don't need 2 right wing parties which is what we have now.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  9. #2429
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Republican ranks have been dwindling. Less people are registering as them, they are a dying party. Democrats aren't exactly healthy either. People are tired of the political back and forth. That's not saying one party good and the other is bad, or they are both as bad.

    Republicans are wondering why young people aren't Republican and they have to find the few who are and beat them like a dead horse when liberal youths are a dime a dozen.
    I don't disagree with any of that.

    It just doesn't seem plausible to me that you can continually stomp roughshod over public opinion and not eventually pay a heavy price. The Boomers are going to start dying like flies in the not too distant future, simply due to general morbidity factors. If the polling is anywhere near accurate their support is going to be decimated to the point that not even gerrymandering will fix their problem.

  10. #2430
    Quote Originally Posted by Drutt View Post
    I suspect this may become a victory that the Republicans will come to rue.
    what by getting everything they want?

  11. #2431
    Moderator Crissi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurasu View Post
    Even if they do codify Roe now, it will probably be before a heartbeat because the party will break and demand compromise with themselves.
    and even then, the SC would likely stike it down as being a states rights issue. Codifying it means nothing when we've got a partisan SC that will strike it down. Need tor eform the SC though either expanding the court or hoping Thomas or ALito pulls a Scalia.

  12. #2432
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    what by getting everything they want?
    No, of course not.

  13. #2433
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Especially when we had all of 72 days with a super majority because Kennedy died. Thus making things need to be prioritized.
    Yeah people can make a lot of whatever arguments but Kennedy dying fucked everything up.

  14. #2434
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malkiah View Post
    i mean you're welcome to think that, and i wish i had the capacity to live in that sort of comforting fantasy, but they've also been saying wow is dying for the last 20 years and it's still chugging along.
    It's not fantasy - it's reality.

    religious woo-woo is a thing humans do, whether it's strictly evangelicals or some other form of protestant inspired bullshit that's going to be a significant cultural and political force for decades at least.
    Not all religions are equal though when we talk politics. Quite a few, for example, have either embraced or decided to ignore the LGBT topics.

    that is exactly what people said 8 years ago when it was suggested trump being elected would be a political disaster, and trump getting to nominate several SC judges would lead to RvW being overturned.
    it's ostrich levels of head in the sand to deny the sky is falling when the sky is smashing into your face.
    Alright man. You go ahead and think the US will criminalize homosexuality. You do you boo.

    support for abortion is as high as support for gay marriage
    Except that isn't true. And reminder you aren't talking about gay marriage - you are talking about criminalizing homosexuality.
    Forum badass alert:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  15. #2435
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    Lot of hate for Susan Collins today and none for the dumbasses who disagree with her but keep sending her to Congress.

  16. #2436
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Whether it will be illegal in 30 years is somewhat irrelevant, at the moment. But if you don't think that basic rights like that will not have to be fought for (AGAIN) as a result of this ruling in ultra conservative states then you haven't been paying attention.
    Oh I absolutely believe that gay marriage rights are in real danger. Now. Today.

    The argument I'm pushing back against is that if we had locked up the SCOTUS for 30 years back in 2016 that we'd have them at risk 30 years from now.
    Forum badass alert:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  17. #2437
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    So is this where we are piling on people who were warned what was at stake if Trump won in 2016 and they refused to listen because they were upset that Hillary didn't pander to them?
    I remember the week of the election, I still had half a mind to say "fuck it" and vote for Bernie Sanders.

    But then I remembered Scalia's death and Merrick Garland still sitting in limbo and decided, despite not liking Hillary, it'd be better that I voted for her, rather than tossing my vote for an ideological vote that would affect nothing.

    In that moment, I decided to vote for Clinton. I still remember walking around base (I was at Ali Al Salem in Kuwait at the time) thinking about it.
    Putin khuliyo

  18. #2438
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drutt View Post
    5 years ago would you have said abortion would be criminalized within 5 years?
    Yes. And I did so. I was one of the voices screaming in 2016 that the SCOTUS was more important than anything.
    Forum badass alert:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  19. #2439
    I am Murloc! Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    It's not fantasy - it's reality.

    Not all religions are equal though when we talk politics. Quite a few, for example, have either embraced or decided to ignore the LGBT topics.

    Alright man. You go ahead and think the US will criminalize homosexuality. You do you boo.

    Except that isn't true. And reminder you aren't talking about gay marriage - you are talking about criminalizing homosexuality.
    You do know that it was only 2003 where sodomy laws were deemed UnConstitutional right?
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
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  20. #2440
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    Polling showed that the majority of americans support the right to choose regarding abortion rights. Polls mean absolutely nothing.
    I don't think these are fundamentally comparable.

    Although support for abortion has fluxuated a small amount over time it's been mostly stable. Many people will never know someone (or they think they don't know someone) who has had an abortion. It's still an issue that affects "them" - and not anyone they know.

    One of the reasons why support for gay marriage has skyrocketed is people know gay people. Friends, family, coworkers.... and it's a whole lot harder to look someone you love in the eye who you know is gay and say " I want to take our rights away." it's why support even among conservatives for gay marriage has increased.

    For many people abortion doesn't affect them. For a ton of people gay rights is more personal. I think it's fundamentally different.

    And although I do think there is a risk that gay marriage may be revoked (which would create a huge legal nightmare so I don't even know how that would work) - I don't believe there is even a small chance that homosexuality will be criminalized.
    Forum badass alert:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

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