SCOTUS removes Roe V Wade

[Endus]

I mean, they just said they were pro-choice, so I don't know what you're arguing against.

Are you under the impression that there are "sides" and that anyone on your "side" must be accepted wholesale no matter what their reasoning? Weren't you the one condemning "identity v. identity" type reasoning, earlier?

I'm arguing against the idea that women should feel negatively about choosing to abort. With emphasis on the "should" part, there, since I'm not arguing that they should find it delightful, either.

[Ghost of Cow]

Are you under the impression that there are "sides" and that anyone on your "side" must be accepted wholesale no matter what their reasoning? Weren't you the one condemning "identity v. identity" type reasoning, earlier?

I'm arguing against the idea that women should feel negatively about choosing to abort. With emphasis on the "should" part, there, since I'm not arguing that they should find it delightful, either.

This kind of weird hardline "you can't think anything but what I think" approach doesn't change any minds either, though.

If someone says they're 100% pro-choice but that the idea of it makes them said because it's traumatic to the woman or whatever, then I don't see a purpose in attacking that person. (Outside of concern trolling approaches like, "Oh, I think choice is fine, buuuuut isn't it....")

[cubby]

Josh Hawley says abortion ruling will push people to move states, strengthening the GOP.

“I would predict that the effect is going to be that more and more red states are going to become more red, purple states are going to become red and the blue states are going to get a lot bluer,” Hawley said. “And I would look for Republicans as a result of this to extend their strength in the Electoral College. And that’s very good news.”

Because the EC is the only way the GQP can win what should be a straight up equal vote election.

[Nymrohd]

Necessary evil means that if contraception was 100% sucessful, and that we have tons of sexual education, that everyone knew what the fuck they would be doing, I would do without aborting. But since it is not the case, and it won't be anytime soon => necessary evil .

Also contraception would have to be harmless and convenient as well as fully effective. Good luck getting all three.

[Ghost of Cow]

Josh Hawley says abortion ruling will push people to move states, strengthening the GOP.


Because the EC is the only way the GQP can win what should be a straight up equal vote election.

Yeah...my first thought on this was, "Well fuck it, lets all just leave red states." but then I remembered that that EC and the Senate are still a thing. So all that would do is leave us with 10% of the country ruling the other 90%.

God our systems are fucked up in that way. ><

[cubby]

Yeah...my first thought on this was, "Well fuck it, lets all just leave red states." but then I remembered that that EC and the Senate are still a thing. So all that would do is leave us with 10% of the country ruling the other 90%.

God our systems are fucked up in that way. ><

Our system is fucked, completely. The Senate/House system was created with good intentions, and doing away with that would essentially require a new constitution. But the EC is just a ridiculous and wholly outdated system kept in place by the GQP, because it's the only way they can win a Presidential election.

[gondrin]

Necessary evil means that if contraception was 100% sucessful, and that we have tons of sexual education, that everyone knew what the fuck they would be doing, I would do without aborting. But since it is not the case, and it won't be anytime soon => necessary evil .

Necessary evil would be having to abort a fetus at 7 or 8 months because the mother would die due to complications during childbirth but doesn't want to lose the child however also doesn't want to die. That is a necessary evil in the sense she has to make a choice between her life and the life of her unborn child that she doesn't want to lose but might have to anyway.

[Ghost of Cow]

Necessary evil would be having to abort a fetus at 7 or 8 months because the mother would die due to complications during childbirth but doesn't want to lose the child however also doesn't want to die. That is a necessary evil in the sense she has to make a choice between her life and the life of her unborn child that she doesn't want to lose but might have to anyway.

Not really related to this, but something I wanted to point out about the topic of timing: According to the CDC, greater than 99% of all abortions happen before the 21 week mark. More than 92% of them occur before at or before 13 weeks.

Basically, the usual right-wing emotional argument of abortion meaning that babies are being born and tossed in the trash or something is nonsense.

[cubby]

Not really related to this, but something I wanted to point out about the topic of timing: According to the CDC, greater than 99% of all abortions happen before the 21 week mark. More than 92% of them occur before at or before 13 weeks.

Basically, the usual right-wing emotional argument of abortion meaning that babies are being born and tossed in the trash or something is nonsense.

That's good data.

However, most GQP arguments are nonsense. It's all about power, period, and control over people. Remember, when Trump won in 2016 and everyone started reading 1984, the GQP saw that as a user manual.

[gondrin]

Not really related to this, but something I wanted to point out about the topic of timing: According to the CDC, greater than 99% of all abortions happen before the 21 week mark. More than 92% of them occur before at or before 13 weeks.

Basically, the usual right-wing emotional argument of abortion meaning that babies are being born and tossed in the trash or something is nonsense.

I find it ironic that the same people that are pro-birth are also generally pro-death penalty. They have no condemning someone to death because of a heinous crime even though the vast majority of people sitting on death row do not belong there as, IMO, the only crimes that would constitute someone sentenced to death are serial murderers, serial child rapists and people convicted of massive crimes against humanity(aka Holocaust).

[Ghost of Cow]

I find it ironic that the same people that are pro-birth are also generally pro-death penalty. They have no condemning someone to death because of a heinous crime even though the vast majority of people sitting on death row do not belong there as, IMO, the only crimes that would constitute someone sentenced to death are serial murderers, serial child rapists and people convicted of massive crimes against humanity(aka Holocaust).

That's because they're only attached to the idea of a baby. The "generic baby", basically. The moment it's a specific life, they don't care.

Funny thing is that humans in general are guilty of this weird turn of thought in a lot of areas. But that's beside the point here, I guess.

[Strange One]

Heard a good joke today.

What's the difference between the American right and the Taliban?


Nothing.

[Smitzelplix]

Republicans are already planning to ban abortion on the federal level, so that even blue states won't be able to have their own abortion laws.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/repub...b0c77098bb4659

[Adamas102]

Where do you draw the line then? Cuz would it be okay to kill a fetus 12 hours before it's considered a baby??

This is why ignorant morons who don’t even understand basic biology shouldn’t be allowed to weigh in on decisions like this. Unfortunately, the SC is full of them…

[Darkeon]

This is why ignorant morons who don’t even understand basic biology shouldn’t be allowed to weigh in on decisions like this. Unfortunately, the SC is full of them…

Darn, you dodged answering that question like a boss.

[Edge-]

Darn, you dodged answering that question like a boss.

No, because it's long been answered. Fetal viability has been the standard. But some people refuse to accept that and keep dishonestly asking, "SO YOU WANT TO RIP THEM OUT ONE DAY BEFORE BIRTH?!?!?!?!?!?!?!" which is literally not what anyone anywhere is saying and is just hyperbole to try to shock folks and manipulate the emotions of other ignorant people.

That's been the legal standard, and there's fairly broad support for it. This shit ain't new.

[Gestopft]

Heard a good joke today.

What's the difference between the American right and the Taliban?


Nothing.

The proper terminology is "Y'all Qaeda"

[tehdang]

Pro-life are anti-woman and misogynistic.

My response was to @Ghost of Cow, and I think he gets it by now through his interactions with hardliners.

So who are you "fighting" if it's a war of Men vs. Women, exactly? And do you stand with pro-life women on this issue purely because of gender? Of course not. It's a stupid way to approach the issue, the only thing that comes out of it people fighting about the wrong thing and the low hanging fruit of throwing labels around.

The reality is that it's not "Men vs Women", it specifically IS pro-life vs pro-choice. Bodily autonomy vs. religious or other irrelevant beliefs. Not gender vs. gender.

I think they do have to make a stand on pro-life women. Essentially, declare they are men telling women that they're anti-women by means of their pro-life stance. It's almost designed to push the persuadable out of whatever camp says that women hate themselves and are the only people that should be listened to.

I would think the practically evenly-split polling, and certainly the pluralities opposing abortion without restriction past ~15/20 weeks, would speak to something beyond a gendered campaign.

Republicans are already planning to ban abortion on the federal level, so that even blue states won't be able to have their own abortion laws.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/repub...b0c77098bb4659

He clearly wants to ignite pro-life legislative pushes in each state, but I've got a swamp to sell you if you think states like California, New York, Illinois, and Massachusetts are going to be receptive to Mike Pence's legislative agenda.

[Endus]

This kind of weird hardline "you can't think anything but what I think" approach doesn't change any minds either, though.

Who says I'm hoping the change their minds? They're radical extremists pushing harm onto women.

I'm hoping to marginalize and ostracize them, so they no longer affect society.

If someone says they're 100% pro-choice but that the idea of it makes them said because it's traumatic to the woman or whatever, then I don't see a purpose in attacking that person. (Outside of concern trolling approaches like, "Oh, I think choice is fine, buuuuut isn't it....")

There's a whopping difference between "the idea of abortions makes me sad" and calling abortions "sad and tragic" as a whole, which implies that everyone sees them that way, that it's inherent to the idea of abortion.

Own your personal feelings and don't presume everyone else must share them.

No, because it's long been answered. Fetal viability has been the standard. But some people refuse to accept that and keep dishonestly asking, "SO YOU WANT TO RIP THEM OUT ONE DAY BEFORE BIRTH?!?!?!?!?!?!?!" which is literally not what anyone anywhere is saying and is just hyperbole to try to shock folks and manipulate the emotions of other ignorant people.

That's been the legal standard, and there's fairly broad support for it. This shit ain't new.

It's also the medical standard, because if they can induce birth of a viable fetus, that's the safest means of ending that pregnancy for both.

We just don't call those "abortions", because they result in a birth. But they effectively are the same thing.

Canada has no special laws for abortion, at all. No weeks limitations, nothing. It's held to the same medical scrutiny as any procedure would/could be. Why should anyone else get a say, other than the patient and their doctor?

[Gestopft]

Darn, you dodged answering that question like a boss.

Because it's either a) a mind-bogglingly stupid question for anyone who has in any way critically considered the issue to ask or b) an intentionally dishonestly framed question meant to elicit an emotional response instead of a serious inquiry.