1. #2681
    Moderator Crissi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Yeah Im talking about rape.

    "You cant change male entitlement" is what you said which is incredibly sexist but ignoring that its also wrong.

    Male entitlement is from poor parenting and lack of a strong father figure with morals. Which has nothing to do with funding but people actually having kids when they are good and ready rather than just having sex getting neighbors pregnant as a way to past the time and we're left with 12/13 year olds all over the streets joining the gang life
    Which seems like a circular logic going back to snobs post on being not a fan of abortion except in cases of rape. Guess what, abortion is the best way to avoid having kids that end up as rapists due to shit parenting form people that didnt want kids.

    and male entitlement is absolutely a thing, especially when you've got husbands insisting marital rape isnt a thing. Not to mention Texas has a few lawmakers that are absolutely a follower of "women should be submissive" shit, which feeds into that. If you take it to mean me saying all men, thats obv not true.

  2. #2682
    The Unstoppable Force RobertoCarlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Which seems like a circular logic going back to snobs post on being not a fan of abortion except in cases of rape. Guess what, abortion is the best way to avoid having kids that end up as rapists due to shit parenting form people that didnt want kids.

    and male entitlement is absolutely a thing, especially when you've got husbands insisting marital rape isnt a thing. Not to mention Texas has a few lawmakers that are absolutely a follower of "women should be submissive" shit, which feeds into that. If you take it to mean me saying all men, thats obv not true.
    Which is why im pro abortion. Ignoring the morals of it, I look at it as a resource issue.

    The world is already showing the effects of limited resources and people want more people running around? No thanks.

    Its completely fucked that people care about the baby when its in its mother womb but once its out in the open its left to itself. That doesnt make any sense on any level.

    I think your problem is that you live in Texas where the people you clearly hate flock too.
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  3. #2683
    Moderator Crissi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Which is why im pro abortion. Ignoring the morals of it, I look at it as a resource issue.

    The world is already showing the effects of limited resources and people want more people running around? No thanks.

    Its completely fucked that people care about the baby when its in its mother womb but once its out in the open its left to itself. That doesnt make any sense on any level.

    I think your problem is that you live in Texas where the people you clearly hate flock too.
    yeah Texas is fuuuucked. Torn between wanting to stay to try and make it purple (while being on BS to make sure I dont get preggers) or to just move.

    Fucking Republican Californians ruined everything by moving here. (more Native Texans voted for Beto while Calis voted for Cruz in 2018)

  4. #2684
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I should hope reform of the foster care system, and increased resources and decreased obstacles for adoption. I certainly hope that answer isn't to pressure certain parents *at risk of not fulfilling their roles* into aborting the child, rather than risk he/she might live with issues of love, attention, and abuse. I don't think the specter of (whatever true percentage) poorly treated kids gives rise to arguments that they were better off killed in the womb than having the chance to overcome childhood trauma. Simultaneously, it would be a poor reflection on society indeed if treatment specialists helping with these kids thought it a great misfortune of their being born alive, but troubled through no fault of their own, and something that ought to make them question their entire existence. It's a challenge, for sure, but not worth trying to rewind the tape to permanently erase childhood suffering.
    Yes. Texas foster care system needs a big overhaul.

    ‘I do feel like I am failing children’: Commissioner over Texas foster care admits system isn’t working
    Report reveals child-on-child sexual abuse among kids and teens forced to sleep in office buildings, hotel rooms.


    Two new reports reveal troubling details about kids and teens in Texas’s foster care system.

    During the first half of 2021, 501 children have spent at least one night in their caseworkers’ offices or in hotel rooms because the state could not find a licensed agency or center to take them.

    The average stay in these unlicensed placements in August 2021 was more than 18 days, an increase of more than 1,000% over December 2019’s average of 1.6 days, according to a report published by the Department of Family and Protective Services.

    Another report from court-appointed monitors who serve as watchdogs over the system found these children without placement are being watched by supervisors who lack proper training, which has led to instances of child-on-child abuse.

    The monitors’ report said there is evidence one youth fell victim to sex trafficking while in state custody.

    At a hearing in federal court, Paul Yetter, a Houston-based attorney representing children in foster care, questioned DFPS Commissioner Jaime Masters.

    “You are failing these children without safe placements by not putting them in a safe place to live. Isn’t the state doing that, Commissioner Masters?” he asked.

    “I do feel like I am failing children,” she responded.

    Yetter added, “And the state is failing children. That is the state’s obligation.”

    Masters replied, “The state charges me with doing that.”

    The virtual hearing was in U.S. District Judge Janis Jack’s courtroom.

    She’s heard cases involving the foster care system for more than a decade, and she told all the parties involved she was tired of hearing too much talk and seeing too little action.


    Some more eye-opening reading.

    Over 100 children have died in Texas’ child welfare system since 2020, report says

    One wonder why since 2009, only 172 children have been surrendered under the Safe Haven Law in Texas.

  5. #2685
    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    I know right? Republicans are just showing how fucking ignorant they are. I had one guy told me yesterday to go drink bleach and die or kill myself for arguing that abortion is a human right.
    "pro-life"...lol
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  6. #2686
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    "pro-life"...lol
    Exactly, and what was really stupid, is that it was in facebook DMs, he was too pussy to put it on the post where I was defending women. And he was still posting as of 5 hours ago because he was still talking shit to women. Even stating in a DM to a woman that guns had less rights than a woman does, even though SCOTUS has changed that.

  7. #2687
    One would think that anti-abortion states would be states that care the most about children.

    Save The Children 2021 US Childhood Report


  8. #2688
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    One would think that anti-abortion states would be states that care the most about children.

    Save The Children 2021 US Childhood Report

    Red states are always the lowest in education, quality of life, and pretty much any standard of a modern nation. All the while taking far more from taxes than they put in (north funds the south) They are why the US is no longer considered a first world country.
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  9. #2689
    The Unstoppable Force RobertoCarlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Yes. Texas foster care system needs a big overhaul.


    Report reveals child-on-child sexual abuse among kids and teens forced to sleep in office buildings, hotel rooms.[/URL]



    Some more eye-opening reading.



    One wonder why since 2009, only 172 children have been surrendered under the Safe Haven Law in Texas.
    No joke being put in American Foster care seems like the stuff of NIGHTMARES. I wouldnt wish that fate on anyone.

    But here we are where people wanna pretend like they care about babies so we're gonna have more unwanted kids in this world
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  10. #2690
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    However, what about a woman that decides to conceive one day, is perfectly ok with it. Has no health problems or financial problems. But then one month later she wakes up and is like "Hmm, you know what, I changed my mind, I don't want a baby right now, might try again in a few years though..."
    This is so rare it's not even worth talking about. All of the anti abortion rights conversations who think there's some kind of "middle ground" always come up with the most ridiculous scenarios that, yes, do look bad. But it's always a "What if..." scenario.

    Yeah, what if Kevin Spacey makes it to the International Space Station where he builds an Ion canon and starts destroying US cities? Should we have laws for that? I realize that's a bit hyperbolic, but it's to make a point. It's how these conversations sound. Ridiculous, and dealing only in hypotheticals, not reality.

    Abortion should be legal because it being banned could destroy a lot of lives. However I don't think people should be proud about it. As if it some achievement to have had an abortion.
    I realize one time long ago, a tweet circulated about a woman bragging about getting a 4th abortion. This tweet got passed around the conservative sphere, all over 4chan, everywhere. It was ONE WOMAN. And then people like you start thinking that one woman doing this means that it's common.
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  11. #2691
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    This is so rare it's not even worth talking about. All of the anti abortion rights conversations who think there's some kind of "middle ground" always come up with the most ridiculous scenarios that, yes, do look bad. But it's always a "What if..." scenario.

    Yeah, what if Kevin Spacey makes it to the International Space Station where he builds an Ion canon and starts destroying US cities? Should we have laws for that? I realize that's a bit hyperbolic, but it's to make a point. It's how these conversations sound. Ridiculous, and dealing only in hypotheticals, not reality.

    I realize one time long ago, a tweet circulated about a woman bragging about getting a 4th abortion. This tweet got passed around the conservative sphere, all over 4chan, everywhere. It was ONE WOMAN. And then people like you start thinking that one woman doing this means that it's common.
    Even if it were common, like...who cares?

    The argument is that it's her right to do as she sees fit, the number of times she does it really isn't material to anything. It's all just emotional for those people in the end.

  12. #2692
    Herald of the Titans tehdang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Thats great and all, but states like mine (Texas) are redirecting funds for such things to shit like sending the National Guard to the border. Our foster care system and CPS are regulkarly in judicial trouble. The Republican party in charge has no interest in changing that. So whats actually going to happen is an increwase in poverty striken children who end up severely abused, and as a result crime will increase.

    The only way to change that is to put Democrats in charge, because Republican priority is to not give a shit about kids after birth.

    source on our foster care shit: https://www.texastribune.org/2022/06...are-sanctions/
    I'm not opposed to tossing out Republican candidates if they cannot campaign on nor fix poor oversight and screening of foster care. Party affiliation does not confer Sainthood. Throw the bums out, primary them, and force recall campaigns.

    I also don't enjoy the connotation that it's better to kill these kids off in the womb, rather than see any abuse or increase in crime. I've seen a lot of chatter in this debate about people pushing religion in some form, but I regret to say it must be religion guiding a paternalistic vision of which kids ought not to exist and which troubles aren't worth life to live through. This all stinks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Plessy has been an example of when precedents should be overturned, despite their longevity, for quite some time now. Dobbs overturning Roe/Casey like Brown overturning Plessy.

    Libs on Twitter weren't able to figure this out in great mass, and I saw a great many dunks on either rank ignorance or exceptional bad faith. Not that conservative writers or bluechecks need much encouragement to point out journalists's inability to "even understand the *structure* of the other side's arguments."
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  13. #2693
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    it's the loss of a potential life.
    So is jacking off into a kleenex. Are you retarded?
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  14. #2694
    Immortal Poopymonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Kinda wild that a trip to America is actually a trip to the past. Congrats, guys, you're the first to invent time travel. America #1!

    How the fuck are you guys still managing to make even the UK look good? Being a bigger fuck up of a country than us is no mean feat.
    The Brits have had centuries of fucking up, a storied history of fucking the dog, if not fucking the dog holding it's head. We've only been in existence for about 250 years, give or take. We're trying to play catch up. Go big or go home. 'Murica.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  15. #2695
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I demand all men receive a vasectomy at age 18 and only be allowed to undo the process with the approval of a parent/guardian/spouse. If women don't have control over their bodies, men shouldn't either.
    You should take a look at Buck v. Bell if you think anyone truly has a right over their body, man or woman. https://www.oyez.org/cases/1900-1940/274us200
    Why cases like that one are being re-looked at is a mystery to me.

    If only the Democrats had enough to do something about this Constitutionally.

  16. #2696
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I also don't enjoy the connotation that it's better to kill these kids off in the womb, rather than see any abuse or increase in crime. I've seen a lot of chatter in this debate about people pushing religion in some form, but I regret to say it must be religion guiding a paternalistic vision of which kids ought not to exist and which troubles aren't worth life to live through. This all stinks.
    Here's the thing: That isn't the primary argument for abortion legality. The primary argument is that bodily autonomy trumps everything else, up to and including not carrying a pregnancy if you don't want to.

    That's the primary argument. There is nothing else in the place of that. Zip. Zero. Nothing.

    Everything else is just a discussion of side effects. Things like, "Increased poverty" or "Foster care overloading" are not the primary argument here. Just negative consequences.

  17. #2697
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I also don't enjoy the connotation that it's better to kill these kids off in the womb, rather than see any abuse or increase in crime.
    If you're arguing that abortion is "killing kids", you're already in magic-fairy-loo-loo land and are trying to push religious dogma onto everyone who doesn't share that faith. Your opinion is noted, but irrelevant to literally everyone outside your personal faith group.

    I've seen a lot of chatter in this debate about people pushing religion in some form
    The idea that a fetus is a person is, fundamentally, a piece of religious dogma. It is not scientifically justifiable. It is objectively false in terms of the law. You can imagine whatever fantasies you like, but they don't apply to anyone but you.

    but I regret to say it must be religion guiding a paternalistic vision of which kids ought not to exist and which troubles aren't worth life to live through. This all stinks.
    That's also a straw man you made up because you can't have the basic, common decency to actually attack the real argument you're confronted with.

    Literally no one is encouraging abortions as some form of eugenics. What's noted is that when abortion is legal, children generally have better lives and are less prone to falling into criminal patterns as a result. That's a societally beneficial side effect, which further supports that abortion rights are a "good thing", no one presents that as a primary argument.

    Plessy has been an example of when precedents should be overturned, despite their longevity, for quite some time now. Dobbs overturning Roe/Casey like Brown overturning Plessy.

    Libs on Twitter weren't able to figure this out in great mass, and I saw a great many dunks on either rank ignorance or exceptional bad faith. Not that conservative writers or bluechecks need much encouragement to point out journalists's inability to "even understand the *structure* of the other side's arguments."
    Newsflash; the issue isn't that a decision was overturned, because sometimes, decisions should be overturned.

    The issue is that this decision was overturned, dishonorably and deceitfully and through blind partisanship and religious extremism rather than respect for the law, or women in general.
    Last edited by Endus; 2022-06-26 at 12:30 AM.


  18. #2698
    The Unstoppable Force RobertoCarlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If you're arguing that abortion is "killing kids", you're already in magic-fairy-loo-loo land and are trying to push religious dogma onto everyone who doesn't share that faith. Your opinion is noted, but irrelevant to literally everyone outside your personal faith group.



    The idea that a fetus is a person is, fundamentally, a piece of religious dogma. It is not scientifically justifiable. It is objectively false in terms of the law. You can imagine whatever fantasies you like, but they don't apply to anyone but you.



    That's also a straw man you made up because you can't have the basic, common decency to actually attack the real argument you're confronted with.

    Literally no one is encouraging abortions as some form of eugenics. What's noted is that when abortion is legal, children generally have better lives and are less prone to falling into criminal patterns as a result. That's a societally beneficial side effect, which further supports that abortion rights are a "good thing", no one presents that as a primary argument.



    Newsflash; the issue isn't that a decision was overturned, because sometimes, decisions should be overturned.

    The issue is that this decision was overturned, dishonorably and deceitfully and through blind partisanship and religious extremism rather than respect for the law, or women in general.
    Its not a religious argument that fetus grow into babies which grow into kids, thats science. So you're being dishonest there endus
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  19. #2699
    The whole "when does a life begin" debate is all a smokescreen anyway. It just doesn't matter.

    If someone wants to argue that "life begins at conception" that's fine. Let them have it. That particular argument just doesn't matter because that isn't the crux of the issue.

  20. #2700
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Its not a religious argument that fetus grow into babies which grow into kids, thats science. So you're being dishonest there endus
    Actually science says not all fetuses grow into babies (17-22%+ odds of miscarriage), not sure what you are talking about. Science also says it's not a baby that's why we call it a fetus not you know baby and if fetuses are people then all the rights, deductions and benefits of having a child should be given to you at pregnancy but they aren't because that's not how it works.

    If you are going by abortion is murder then you need to start arresting women who have miscarriages who some don't even know they have it since its usually in the first trimester.

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