SCOTUS removes Roe V Wade

[eschatological]

We really have no leverage with Manchin. McConnell's caucus stays in line because they understand the importance and utility of doing so--half (or more) of Manchin's brand is sticking it to the Democrats. Sinema is a clown who also stands for nothing besides raw self-interest but could probably be persuaded. What perplexes me is why we don't seem to have leftist billionaires willing to buy Manchin and Sinema. We can pretend they benefit more from Republican policies, but Democrats take excellent care of the very richest, too.

Because despite what people say about "leftist" billionaires like Soros, Bezos and Gates (none of whom are actual leftists), there doesn't seem to be any evidence that they believe money should be involved in politics.

[Ivanstone]

We can pretend they benefit more from Republican policies, but Democrats take excellent care of the very richest, too.

The GOP gives the wealthy 100% of what they want and hope they don’t do something to embarrassing (ex DeSantis vs Disney).

The Dems won’t give the wealthy 100%. They might do 70/80/90% of what they want but substantial amounts of wealthy are willing to tolerate a little bad press for that extra 30/20/10%.

Sinema is certainly up for sale and the Dem donor apparatus should’ve had her squared away already. Manchin is something else. His personal wealth is tied to GOP friendly causes and he needs substantially less donor money in general.

[Kallisto]

Manchin shouldn't be catered to. Nor should Sinema (I'll wait and see with Sinema, she might just do a contrarian princess dick move anyway), but that is neither here nor there right now. Both of them should have been whipped, primaried and beaten into submission but the democratic party is utterly incapable of doing anything but fucking losing.

There's really nothing the Ds can do to Manchin. Primary him and it's just either an even more conservative with a D that takes his place in the Senate or more likely another R in the Senate. Whip him and he'll say no. Pressure him and he can just go "Hey Mitch, want a new senator?"

He's representing W.Virginia, it would be different if it was a New England/West coast state. But it's not. He's basically the senate until the midterms.

[Milchshake]

Yes, actually, voting for Democrats in every single election is how you get the laws and government you want. Every time you’ve let up, Republicans were there to snatch power back. Stop listening to edgelord Twitter grifters who sell you the idea that voting is cringe. Grow up.

If you want Roe codified, hold the House and give Democrats 2-3 more votes in the Senate. If you want to complain that Democrats aren't codifying it despite lacking the votes right now, I assume you're anti-choice and trying to ensure failure.

[cubby]

Mitch McConnell weighing in on the SCOTUS leak:

"Last night’s stunning breach was an attack on the independence of the Supreme Court," said McConnell in a statement. "By every indication, this was yet another escalation in the radical left’s ongoing campaign to bully and intimidate federal judges and substitute mob rule for the rule of law.”

The worst part? He's right.

[Edge-]

Mitch McConnell weighing in on the SCOTUS leak:

The worst part? He's right.

...do tell how he's right, since we have no clue how this opinion leaked out from what I know.

[Levelfive]

Because despite what people say about "leftist" billionaires like Soros, Bezos and Gates (none of whom are actual leftists), there doesn't seem to be any evidence that they believe money should be involved in politics.

So it would seem. As an aside, I love Talking Points Memo: Susan Collins Can’t Believe The Two Anti-Abortion Justices She Voted For Are Gutting Roe https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/s...e-court-scotus via @TPM

[Darththeo]

...do tell how he's right, since we have no clue how this opinion leaked out from what I know.

I think because mob are trying to convince the court their decision is wrong. We need to let the Court rule on the decision and just "accept it."

[cubby]

...do tell how he's right, since we have no clue how this opinion leaked out from what I know.

First, let me say I hate being on this side of the discussion. My position on McConnell and the GQP and all those things hopefully is clear.

That being said. McConnell's correct because the breach of internal memo's from SCOTUS' preliminary discussion is a breach of policy/procedure. Their internal discussions and public opinions are strictly SCOTUS', and no one else's. There is no room in our laws for public outcry to affect a particular opinion. The laws SCOTUS are interpreting and ruling on are already written. The time to change those is with the Legislative and Executive Branch. Even to affect the SCOTUS Justices (i.e. appointment and impeachment) come from those other two branches.

Leaking internal documents from SCOTUS and expecting changes to occur to their opinion is a fundamental attack on our laws and values. We absolutely do not want that to happen. It's tantamount to mob rule.

[Elegiac]

First, let me say I hate being on this side of the discussion. My position on McConnell and the GQP and all those things hopefully is clear.

That being said. McConnell's correct because the breach of internal memo's from SCOTUS' preliminary discussion is a breach of policy/procedure. Their internal discussions and public opinions are strictly SCOTUS', and no one else's. There is no room in our laws for public outcry to affect a particular opinion. The laws SCOTUS are interpreting and ruling on are already written. The time to change those is with the Legislative and Executive Branch. Even to affect the SCOTUS Justices (i.e. appointment and impeachment) come from those other two branches.

Leaking internal documents from SCOTUS and expecting changes to occur to their opinion is a fundamental attack on our laws and values. We absolutely do not want that to happen. It's tantamount to mob rule.

They lost any right to complain about this when they started using the shadow docket to issue opinions on non-emergent subjects.

Next bad take, please.

[cubby]

So it would seem. As an aside, I love Talking Points Memo: Susan Collins Can’t Believe The Two Anti-Abortion Justices She Voted For Are Gutting Roe https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/s...e-court-scotus via @TPM

These fuckwad Senators who are "rocked to their core" that conservative judges are voting to overturn Roe can go fuck themselves. What in the holy hell did they think would happen.

- - - Updated - - -

They lost any right to complain about this when they started using the shadow docket to issue opinions on non-emergent subjects.

Next bad take, please.

If you don't understand the issues, just ask, and we can explain. Answers like the above are why most of us don't take you seriously any more.

SCOTUS can't be influenced by mob rule. No judge should/can. Think about it from the flip side.

[Darththeo]

First, let me say I hate being on this side of the discussion. My position on McConnell and the GQP and all those things hopefully is clear.

That being said. McConnell's correct because the breach of internal memo's from SCOTUS' preliminary discussion is a breach of policy/procedure. Their internal discussions and public opinions are strictly SCOTUS', and no one else's. There is no room in our laws for public outcry to affect a particular opinion. The laws SCOTUS are interpreting and ruling on are already written. The time to change those is with the Legislative and Executive Branch. Even to affect the SCOTUS Justices (i.e. appointment and impeachment) come from those other two branches.

Leaking internal documents from SCOTUS and expecting changes to occur to their opinion is a fundamental attack on our laws and values. We absolutely do not want that to happen. It's tantamount to mob rule.

The issue is that even if it wasn't leaked, if this came out as is ... the result would have been worse.

People have asked for decades for more transparency in their government. This is highlighting the issue we still lack transparency.

[Finlandia WOAT]

Yep. We fought a war over it. If it's such a big deal that it's worth fighting a literal war on it, breaking apart the union, then I'm all aboard. Sometimes, it feels like some states want a peaceful divorce when they can't force their morality on a national basis. 9 legislators wearing black robes nation, and a collection of states nation.

The Civil War was not about "State's Rights".

Southern lawmakers happily trampled on the "rights" of Northern states if it meant protecting the institution of slavery.

[Edge-]

That being said. McConnell's correct because the breach of internal memo's from SCOTUS' preliminary discussion is a breach of policy/procedure. Their internal discussions and public opinions are strictly SCOTUS', and no one else's. There is no room in our laws for public outcry to affect a particular opinion. The laws SCOTUS are interpreting and ruling on are already written. The time to change those is with the Legislative and Executive Branch. Even to affect the SCOTUS Justices (i.e. appointment and impeachment) come from those other two branches.

Cool and all, but connect the dots to the "radical left" here. That's who he's blaming for this, without any evidence or anything else to back it up.

Leaking internal documents from SCOTUS and expecting changes to occur to their opinion is a fundamental attack on our laws and values.

Or, alternatively, acting as a canary in the coal-mine after decades of Republicans literally doing this to the judiciary, and what the activist judges that the Republicans have installed are doing to undermine the credibility of our judiciary.

Need I remind you of the historically low trust in the SCOTUS?

We absolutely do not want that to happen. It's tantamount to mob rule.

The alternative of the Republicans using the judiciary to reshape the country in their image because they're a minority party, resulting in potential rulings like this that threaten the rights of people in many states including...

- Interracial marriage and children
- Same-sex realationships
- Sodomy laws
- Our right to privacy

And tons of other rights not specifically enumerated in the Constitution, but granted to the people rather than to the states and protected against states infringing upon these rights at a federal level.

This is very much the kind of argument made when you've lost and all you have left is, "Sure we have lost some rights, and many more in other states have lost TONS of rights, but at least we were principled!"

[Milchshake]

Mitch McConnell weighing in on the SCOTUS leak:

The worst part? He's right.

Worse than SCOTUS issuing shadow docket decrees that cancel decades of settled legislation or precedent...?
SCOTUS has much bigger institutional problems than a fucking leak.

"But if it pleases the court, would the record please reflect that I made polite agreement with the gentleman from Kentucky. Because this level of comity is like begging for karma points on reddit."

[Levelfive]

First, let me say I hate being on this side of the discussion. My position on McConnell and the GQP and all those things hopefully is clear.

That being said. McConnell's correct because the breach of internal memo's from SCOTUS' preliminary discussion is a breach of policy/procedure. Their internal discussions and public opinions are strictly SCOTUS', and no one else's. There is no room in our laws for public outcry to affect a particular opinion. The laws SCOTUS are interpreting and ruling on are already written. The time to change those is with the Legislative and Executive Branch. Even to affect the SCOTUS Justices (i.e. appointment and impeachment) come from those other two branches.

Leaking internal documents from SCOTUS and expecting changes to occur to their opinion is a fundamental attack on our laws and values. We absolutely do not want that to happen. It's tantamount to mob rule.

Aside from the utter preposterousness of the right pretending they're concerned with any institutional norms, but particularly regarding their stacked and corrupt Supreme Court, at this point we don't know which side of the divide leaked this.

[Darththeo]

The Civil War was not about "State's Rights".

Southern lawmakers happily trampled on the "rights" of Northern states if it meant protecting the institution of slavery.

Yeah, people forget that Southern states numerous times wanted to force Northern States to return runaway slaves.

[Edge-]

SCOTUS can't be influenced by mob rule. No judge should/can. Think about it from the flip side.

Instead they can be partisan judges influenced by decades of grooming by conservative activist groups, installed in contradiction to normal order with political fuckery so that they can make rulings in favor of the party that installed them rather than in accordance with the law.

Highlighting the extensive use of the shadow docket as an example of how morally compromised this court is, not to mention Thomas and the fucking monumental ethics issues with his wife.

You're pretending like the SCOTUS is functioning as-normal and hasn't been weaponized as an arm of the Republican party. Don't do that.

[Endus]

Mitch McConnell weighing in on the SCOTUS leak:

The worst part? He's right.

When "justice" is so clearly broken, mob (democratic) rule is better than (authoritarian) rule of law. That's kind of why Americans decided to hold a Revolution, once upon a time, y'know.

[Edge-]

The Civil War was not about "State's Rights".

Southern lawmakers happily trampled on the "rights" of Northern states if it meant protecting the institution of slavery.

The most hilarious thing about it is their own ideology was a failure, and states were refusing to continue funding the Confederate gub'mint near the end of the war as well. It was always about, "I got mine, fuck everyone else." even back in the days of the Civil War.