1. #3181
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Abortion pills in demand after reversal of Roe vs Wade

    I'm sure news of this being deemed illegal will happen at some point, too.
    I expect every drug dealer in those areas to have them in stock pretty quickly.
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  2. #3182
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    If you don't like abortion fine that's you, don't force your believes and religion on others period. Our system is completely broke when over 70% of the country supports something like Pro-Choice and yet get ignored because some assholes in power that we didn't vote for decided it was not legal anymore.
    I have to disagree with this take. The SCOTUS did not, in fact, decide abortion wasn't legal anymore. Though less federal laws defending it is a concern, I'm sure the States will come with viable solutions to this lack of regulation. Hopefully regulation that doesn't ban it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Abortion pills in demand after reversal of Roe vs Wade

    I'm sure news of this being deemed illegal will happen at some point, too.
    Hopefully not. I can't imagine a sane legal argument that could ever put it into question.
    "In real life, unlike in Shakespeare, the sweetness of the rose depends upon the name it bears. Things are not only what they are. They are, in very important respects, what they seem to be"

    End of quote. Repeat the line.

  3. #3183
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    I have to disagree with this take. The SCOTUS did not, in fact, decide abortion wasn't legal anymore. Though less federal laws defending it is a concern, I'm sure the States will come with viable solutions to this lack of regulation. Hopefully regulation that doesn't ban it.
    Their entire Intent in removing the federal protection was so that states could outlaw it.

    These evangelical judges aren’t doing things without knowing what it will result in. They’re doing it to exact a specific effect; in this case, outlawing abortion because doing so comports with their religious beliefs.

    You can’t honestly argue “sure the judges are from a religiously motivated party, sure they overturned abortion protection, and sure that means that some states who are also religiously motivated will outlaw it, but that doesn’t mean that the judges meant for that to happen all along!”

    Though one could certainly dishonestly argue it.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  4. #3184
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Easiest money they'll make in their dealing careers with the rate things are going.
    I don’t smoke or anything but I would happily contribute to the cause.

    Edit: just have to be careful which family member I let know because I know at least one that has no problem selling coke and other stuff and no problem with thieves and stuff like that so long as they aren’t taking from him but would get all high and mighty on this.
    Last edited by Fugus; 2022-06-28 at 03:46 PM.
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  5. #3185
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Their entire Intent in removing the federal protection was so that states could outlaw it.

    These evangelical judges aren’t doing things without knowing what it will result in. They’re doing it to exact a specific effect; in this case, outlawing abortion because doing so comports with their religious beliefs.

    You can’t honestly argue “sure the judges are from a religiously motivated party, sure they overturned abortion protection, and sure that means that some states who are also religiously motivated will outlaw it, but that doesn’t mean that the judges meant for that to happen all along!”

    Though one could certainly dishonestly argue it.
    This entire logic of originalism falls hard when it's confronted with the history of Slavery and Jim Crow in the US. Originalism allowed for that, even Barry Goldwater in the 50's espoused that, but later on he realized that Originalism isn't without it's flaws.

    The ability of individual states to deprive people of liberty is allowed under originalism.

  6. #3186
    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand.

    The progress that was made attests to that. Being proud of that fact shouldn't be indication of anything else besides how you're proud that your country created someone such as yourself.

    Being proud of America is being proud of yourself.
    Except the USA are kinda a shitty place to live with, you know, all the crazy and all the guns.

  7. #3187
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Except the USA are kinda a shitty place to live with, you know, all the crazy and all the guns.
    Preaching to the choir. Currently working through my career, and if I can save up I'll retire in another country outside of the US. If I hit the lottery, ya, I'm retiring immediately and filing for NZ, IR, and CA citizenship for some retirement visa.

    Way more civil society in those countries, and freedom of expression isn't as brutal as the US is.

  8. #3188
    The Undying
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonKing View Post
    Are you sure @Blur4stuff was being pessimistic? Perhaps their post was meant to say that this is going to make the Republicans not be able to get the House back.

    Edit: I found one of their previous posts, you took their post the wrong way.
    No...I thought Bluff was being optimistic. I was disagreeing with their post - I do not think this will galvanize the Democrats, and if it does, it won't be enough. I think the GQP smells blood in the water, and can see the fruits of their decades long labor paying off, and they will double down to keep winning.

    If we were going to see a YUGE influx of voters coming out of the woodwork, that would have happened in the 2020 election, voting down ticket.

    I think, will all due respect, perhaps my point wasn't clear to you. I could be missing something though - just shout.

  9. #3189
    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    Preaching to the choir. Currently working through my career, and if I can save up I'll retire in another country outside of the US. If I hit the lottery, ya, I'm retiring immediately and filing for NZ, IR, and CA citizenship for some retirement visa.

    Way more civil society in those countries, and freedom of expression isn't as brutal as the US is.
    20 ago, the USA were shown as an exemple to follow in my country. Today, they are the exemple of what not to do, be it progressism or conservatism. You go too far, too deep, too fast.

  10. #3190
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    20 ago, the USA were shown as an exemple to follow in my country. Today, they are the exemple of what not to do, be it progressism or conservatism. You go too far, too deep, too fast.
    I mean...the country banning burkini's isn't exactly out there as the shining beacon of liberal democracy either. Especially with the latest election.

    Far-right nutters (who aren't even responsible for the ban mentioned) are a problem everywhere. This isn't to say that we're not a shitshow - we absolutely are - but maybe don't throw stones from glass houses : P

  11. #3191
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I mean...the country banning burkini's isn't exactly out there as the shining beacon of liberal democracy either. Especially with the latest election.

    Far-right nutters (who aren't even responsible for the ban mentioned) are a problem everywhere. This isn't to say that we're not a shitshow - we absolutely are - but maybe don't throw stones from glass houses : P
    Little derail. Burkini has no place in a pool or even a beach as long as they are public in Europe. Period.

  12. #3192
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Little derail. Burkini has no place in a pool or even a beach as long as they are public in Europe. Period.
    I'm of another opinion - people can wear whatever the fuck they want as long as it conforms to the basic standards of decency (i.e. covers the naughty bits).

    Because as with abortion, I think women can and should choose what happens with their bodies, including what they wear.

  13. #3193
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I'm of another opinion - people can wear whatever the fuck they want as long as it conforms to the basic standards of decency (i.e. covers the naughty bits).

    Because as with abortion, I think women can and should choose what happens with their bodies, including what they wear.
    You do know that we have lots of people going topless in Europe ? Or did you meant the bottom for naughty bits ? (Though we also have naturist or nudist beach).

    And we do not agree about that. And hopefully, a majority of European agrees with me.

  14. #3194
    The Undying
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    I see people all over the place making the argument that a fetus is not a person, because [various good, scientific based reasons]. They argue that if it is a person, then the unborn fetus should be getting rights, and a SSN, and etc. People think that solid logic is a precursor to building back up the right to bodily autonomy (and therefore abortion).

    But to me, that seems like something the ignorant GQP would take as a challenge. I can easily see the GQP drafting up legislation giving unborn fetus' rights and SSN's and etc. I think this is another vehicle for the GQP to further erode women's rights.

    (and yes, I'm aware that the GQP doesn't need a reason to further erode women's rights, but this would be an easy vehicle to take away almost all autonomy of pregnant women)

  15. #3195
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    You do know that we have lots of people going topless in Europe ? Or did you meant the bottom for naughty bits ? (Though we also have naturist or nudist beach).

    And we do not agree about that. And hopefully, a majority of European agrees with me.
    Differences between rest of Europe and US--Ya'll don't have evangelicals...yet. When you get them man..it's like someone taking a turd in the punch bowl.

  16. #3196
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    No...I thought Bluff was being optimistic. I was disagreeing with their post - I do not think this will galvanize the Democrats, and if it does, it won't be enough. I think the GQP smells blood in the water, and can see the fruits of their decades long labor paying off, and they will double down to keep winning.

    If we were going to see a YUGE influx of voters coming out of the woodwork, that would have happened in the 2020 election, voting down ticket.

    I think, will all due respect, perhaps my point wasn't clear to you. I could be missing something though - just shout.
    I think some people really underestimate precisely how little electoral power Americans actually have, and how disincentivizing that is to voters.

    If you're a left-winger, and you live in a red state, is your vote gonna make a difference? Even if everyone like you in that State votes? Not "every non-voter votes", as there's likely a lot of right-wingers who aren't bothering to vote because of their confidence that their guys will win regardless.

    And once you've factored that in, there's the Electoral College.

    I don't see a fix for this, not really. It may simply be that the American experiment has reached a failure condition, and it's a question of how long you can keep things strapped together before it's finally totally done. You can't always un-crack an egg, and all that; not all problems are solveable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Little derail. Burkini has no place in a pool or even a beach as long as they are public in Europe. Period.
    Yep. Tell women what they can or cannot wear. That'll definitely show how much you condemn another culture for telling women what they can or cannot wear.

    That's definitely an argument that makes sense and isn't just unthinking Islamophobia.


  17. #3197
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I think some people really underestimate precisely how little electoral power Americans actually have, and how disincentivizing that is to voters.

    If you're a left-winger, and you live in a red state, is your vote gonna make a difference? Even if everyone like you in that State votes? Not "every non-voter votes", as there's likely a lot of right-wingers who aren't bothering to vote because of their confidence that their guys will win regardless.

    And once you've factored that in, there's the Electoral College.

    I don't see a fix for this, not really. It may simply be that the American experiment has reached a failure condition, and it's a question of how long you can keep things strapped together before it's finally totally done. You can't always un-crack an egg, and all that; not all problems are solveable.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yep. Tell women what they can or cannot wear. That'll definitely show how much you condemn another culture for telling women what they can or cannot wear.

    That's definitely an argument that makes sense and isn't just unthinking Islamophobia.
    It is not islamophobia, it is putting religion in its place, in the private circle. You can wear a burkini in your bathroom if you want. Same for Hijab. Would be the same if some Christian wore religious clothes.

  18. #3198
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I see people all over the place making the argument that a fetus is not a person, because [various good, scientific based reasons]. They argue that if it is a person, then the unborn fetus should be getting rights, and a SSN, and etc. People think that solid logic is a precursor to building back up the right to bodily autonomy (and therefore abortion).

    But to me, that seems like something the ignorant GQP would take as a challenge. I can easily see the GQP drafting up legislation giving unborn fetus' rights and SSN's and etc. I think this is another vehicle for the GQP to further erode women's rights.

    (and yes, I'm aware that the GQP doesn't need a reason to further erode women's rights, but this would be an easy vehicle to take away almost all autonomy of pregnant women)
    As I've said several times, if you took a living, post-birth baby, which is absolutely, definitively, 100% a "person" and fully possessing all the rights and freedoms of any human being, and re-inserted it into a woman's uterus and hooked it back up to everything, that woman should 100% always have the right to say "what the fuck? No! Get it out of me! I do not want this!"

    Even if the baby would die.

    Fetal personhood is irrelevant. It's a distraction pushed by religious extremists trying to make an emotional argument that skips right past their dehumanization of women.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    It is not islamophobia, it is putting religion in its place, in the private circle. You can wear a burkini in your bathroom if you want. Same for Hijab. Would be the same if some Christian wore religious clothes.
    No, you're telling women how they can or cannot dress.

    It's exactly the same attitude as those who'd force a woman to wear a burqa. Literally, the same misogyny and intolerance and hatred. You and they are exactly alike.


  19. #3199
    [QUOTE=Endus;53821760]
    Fetal personhood is irrelevant. It's a distraction pushed by religious extremists trying to make an emotional argument that skips right past their dehumanization of women.

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    As historians pointed out: The religious majority in the US as a coalition didn't start fighting abortion until after their leaders realized that religious segregation was not going to work anymore.

  20. #3200
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    It is not islamophobia, it is putting religion in its place, in the private circle. You can wear a burkini in your bathroom if you want. Same for Hijab. Would be the same if some Christian wore religious clothes.
    It’s playing fashion police, plain and simple, a sentiment that runs quite antithetical to “letting people choose what to do with their bodies”
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

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