1. #3301
    Elemental Lord Darththeo's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away
    Posts
    8,054
    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Literally none of them took part in a health class in school.
    Well, for most conservatives, you learn everything you need to know about science in middle school.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  2. #3302
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Well, for most conservatives, you learn everything you need to know about science in middle school.
    Is that when they are told by everyone that Gawd did it?

  3. #3303
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Rigging your election
    Posts
    36,886
    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    Jefferson is my least favorite founding father. I call him a fraud if I get drunk. The dude was a walking hypocrisy. He personally reviled Slavery, he said so often when speaking around Franklin, but in his personal life he raped his female slaves and refused to acknowledge his children. Even generations after Slavery had died the Jefferson estate iirc didn't recognize them until like the 80's almost 200 years after when this occurred.

    Jefferson was a clown of the highest order. He was anti-big government, but when he got power he used that big government a lot. He expanded the fed larger than any previous founder, and then when he got out he immediately went back to trashing it.

    Jefferson did not understand debt in the least bit. Only Hamilton had the foresight on how to manage a new country. Jefferson was too far up Locke and Paine's butts to see how actually real governance would look.

    The founders literally sent Jefferson to Paris to be a diplomat with Franklin when they wrote the federalist papers and when they were garnering support for the constitution. A document he opposed; but Jefferson was such a clown his protégé Madison basically took his principals and put them in the constitution and Jefferson still wasn't happy about it. He's literally a giant baby with a skill in penmanship. But don't let the lofty ideals of freedom and the rights of men blind you to the fact he was still an awful person and was not enlightened on race, or gender.
    So in other words, Jefferson is basically the model for every sitting conservative lawmaker today.

    Doesn't give a shit about women and actively wants to remove their rights and make them property.

    Was outwardly against slavery but used the fuck out of it to his benefit and pleasure.

    Was outwardly against big government but just loved being a fascist when he had the power.

    No fucking clue how the national debt works, but loves to spend.


    Also, reminder to all of our conservatives in here:



    Not that they give a fuck.

    Remember back in 2016, when many of us were starting to say that the US was starting to look dangerously like Gilead from the Handmaid's Tale? And all of the supposed conservatives (TOTALLY not fascists) were saying we were overreacting? Yeah, fuck you. Fuck all of you. Giant middle finger. We knew this was coming, and yet we were told we were "overreacting".
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
    2023: "What's with all these massively successful games with ugly (realistic) women? How could this have happened?!"

  4. #3304
    Immortal Poopymonster's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Neverland Ranch Survivor
    Posts
    7,206
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    So in other words, Jefferson is basically the model for every sitting conservative lawmaker today.

    Doesn't give a shit about women and actively wants to remove their rights and make them property.

    Was outwardly against slavery but used the fuck out of it to his benefit and pleasure.

    Was outwardly against big government but just loved being a fascist when he had the power.

    No fucking clue how the national debt works, but loves to spend.


    Also, reminder to all of our conservatives in here:



    Not that they give a fuck.

    Remember back in 2016, when many of us were starting to say that the US was starting to look dangerously like Gilead from the Handmaid's Tale? And all of the supposed conservatives (TOTALLY not fascists) were saying we were overreacting? Yeah, fuck you. Fuck all of you. Giant middle finger. We knew this was coming, and yet we were told we were "overreacting".
    You'd have thought they'd love a kingdom with elite pistol enthusiasts ruled by guy that allows his wife to be cucked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  5. #3305
    I will link this Jon Stewart Podcast. For all the people who were against Roe v Wade being overturned, a good watch. For people who don't want to give it clicks/views I will highlight some of the points.



    4:50 timeline: They talk about originalist bs and how they pick and choose where originalism. At 7:00 minute mark a good point mentioned the judges never mention the originality of the 14th Amendment, which came from slavery and the ratifiers at that time and to paraphrase the person, "the absent bodily autonomy in labor, absence bodily autonomy in sexual coercion (who you choose to have child with, your marriage being recognized,when you want a child and that child being taken away). So taking that originalist understanding of the 14th than protection is awarded to bodily autonomy.

    9:25 timeline: This my BIG one where Stewart mentions how this is based so much on Religion and religious ideology. Very extreme ideology at that, not all people of religion interpret this, which is also my point. One of the people on panel try to brush this, but they get back to around to agreeing that they pass to state's, which of course states base on religion.

    They have a good discussion about Roe v Wade up to the 20 minute mark. The rest is also good on the Supreme Court and it's overreaching power if you want to watch the whole 45 minutes.
    Democrats are the best! I will never ever question a Democrat again. I LOVE the Democrats!

  6. #3306
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    So in other words, Jefferson is basically the model for every sitting conservative lawmaker today.

    Doesn't give a shit about women and actively wants to remove their rights and make them property.

    Was outwardly against slavery but used the fuck out of it to his benefit and pleasure.

    Was outwardly against big government but just loved being a fascist when he had the power.

    No fucking clue how the national debt works, but loves to spend.


    Also, reminder to all of our conservatives in here:



    Not that they give a fuck.

    Remember back in 2016, when many of us were starting to say that the US was starting to look dangerously like Gilead from the Handmaid's Tale? And all of the supposed conservatives (TOTALLY not fascists) were saying we were overreacting? Yeah, fuck you. Fuck all of you. Giant middle finger. We knew this was coming, and yet we were told we were "overreacting".
    Whats the most insane thing for me right now, as an atheist how am I not supposed to see this abortion legislation and not think eventually they'll be pushing for religious tests or religious speech being promoted.

    First time in my adult life, actually my entire life, I really am starting to think the best thing you can do if you value secular society is to consider figuring out how to immigrate to another country.

  7. #3307
    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    Whats the most insane thing for me right now, as an atheist how am I not supposed to see this abortion legislation and not think eventually they'll be pushing for religious tests or religious speech being promoted.

    First time in my adult life, actually my entire life, I really am starting to think the best thing you can do if you value secular society is to consider figuring out how to immigrate to another country.
    May I suggest Germany, we're now more than 50% not belonging to a church.

  8. #3308
    Scarab Lord MCMLXXXII's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Delta swamp of the west
    Posts
    4,845
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    May I suggest Germany, we're now more than 50% not belonging to a church.
    We've been at 55% steadily the last few years. 20% Roman catholic, 15% protestant, 5% Islamic and 5% other religions.

  9. #3309
    Here's the moment when Mississippi House Speaker Philip Gunn told journalists that he believes even 12-year-old girls raped by their fathers and uncles should be forced to carry a pregnancy to term because "every life is valuable."

    So many people oblivious to who these people are. For next generations coming up for like 50 plus years, cause of Justices and fecklessness of Dems, your lives will not be yours.
    Democrats are the best! I will never ever question a Democrat again. I LOVE the Democrats!

  10. #3310
    The Undying
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    34,587
    Biden calls for dropping filibuster rules to put abortion rights into law.

    This won't work. Conversely, it will be the reason it will work for the GQP when Moscow Mitch takes the helm, drops the filibuster, and passes a nation wide anti-abortion law.

  11. #3311
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Biden calls for dropping filibuster rules to put abortion rights into law.

    This won't work. Conversely, it will be the reason it will work for the GQP when Moscow Mitch takes the helm, drops the filibuster, and passes a nation wide anti-abortion law.
    At this point what's the goal? The SCOTUS will overturn any codified law around abortion on the grounds of the 9th and 10th amendment.

    It's basically just saying: Hey your state legislatures are supposed to protect you, you can vote for people who support you.

    But the SCOTUS next year is gonna toss that courts can rule on gerrymandering and at that point what's the point of living in any state except CA, CO, RI, MA, NY, PO, and WA. Essentially it's saying if you don't have a 9:1 number advantage Dems we're going to pass laws to make you a second class citizen.

    Jim Crow is gonna come roaring back.

  12. #3312
    Elemental Lord Darththeo's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away
    Posts
    8,054
    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    At this point what's the goal? The SCOTUS will overturn any codified law around abortion on the grounds of the 9th and 10th amendment.

    It's basically just saying: Hey your state legislatures are supposed to protect you, you can vote for people who support you.

    But the SCOTUS next year is gonna toss that courts can rule on gerrymandering and at that point what's the point of living in any state except CA, CO, RI, MA, NY, PO, and WA. Essentially it's saying if you don't have a 9:1 number advantage Dems we're going to pass laws to make you a second class citizen.

    Jim Crow is gonna come roaring back.
    The issue comes to can they determine a direct violation. If a law is codify, it has to directly conflict with the Constitution.

    But, given this court literally made stuff up in other decisions, I don't have faith.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  13. #3313
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Biden calls for dropping filibuster rules to put abortion rights into law.

    This won't work. Conversely, it will be the reason it will work for the GQP when Moscow Mitch takes the helm, drops the filibuster, and passes a nation wide anti-abortion law.
    With what we discussed before, while the other stuff could be debated some, abortion is one where I can honestly say it will be DOA as a federal ban just as much as a states right as it will be ignored.

    You will see every drug dealer carrying the pills, you will see doctors handling it off the books some, you will see people and even companies paying for people to leave the state to Mexico or Canada for a “Vacation” and even if they had a pregnancy on record they will come back with doctors paperwork saying they miscarried and so on.

    This is one issue where I can honestly say that even if they win, they lose.

    The pushback on it at this point would make prohibition look trivial.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  14. #3314
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    The issue comes to can they determine a direct violation. If a law is codify, it has to directly conflict with the Constitution.

    But, given this court literally made stuff up in other decisions, I don't have faith.
    Ya under their current interpretation basically the Fed can't do anything unless it's explicitly mentioned in the Constitution.

    I'm more convinced by the day this court would rule against Brown, Loving, and would probably agree with Plessy.

  15. #3315
    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    I'm more convinced by the day this court would rule against Brown, Loving, and would probably agree with Plessy.
    No, they'd at least wait until Clarence or Ginni died before issuing a ruling invalidating their marriage.

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antis...article-710771

    Just as a reminder of who stands where on the issue - neo-nazi Nick Fuentes is thrilled with the ruling, and said that "Jews stood in the way" of Catholic SCOTUS justices who "were put on the court to overturn" Roe.

    Just a reminder of who is on which side. I continue to be extremely comfortable being on the side that doesn't have avowed neo-nazi's who think that having sex with women is gay (I'm serious).

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://scoop.upworthy.com/satanic-t...t-civil-rights

    In addition to a Jewish group suing in FL, I believe, the Church of Satan is going to pursue lawsuits arguing that bans on abortion violate their religious freedom. Once again, the Church of Satan is fighting for individual rights and freedoms while conservatives try to take those freedoms away.

  16. #3316
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    79,805
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    The issue comes to can they determine a direct violation. If a law is codify, it has to directly conflict with the Constitution.

    But, given this court literally made stuff up in other decisions, I don't have faith.
    As I said in another thread yesterday, this may be a case where there was already an ideological war for the future of the USA, and the Democrats lost. Completely. Before Biden ever took office.

    If Supreme Court justices are willing to be partisan rather than rule on the law itself, then the nation's already fatally wounded, it just hasn't bled out yet. The knife's still blocking the wound, but Roe v. Wade's annulment was the first shift at pulling the knife out. And Thomas was clear they're pulling it all the way, and targeting a whole host of other civil rights in the near future.

    If they're willing to do that, they're probably willing to hand-wave election fraud by Republicans. And if that's true, there's no path to victory for Democrats. You'll lose in 2022, because any blatant election fraud will get their case appealed up through the courts and the corrupted SCOTUS will rubber-stamp the frauds as legitimate, securing a Republican win. Republicans could stuff ballot boxes with more votes than there are voters, and SCOTUS can still do that. And if they do, then Republicans win every election moving forward. Maybe not all of them right off, maybe just cleaning up the purple and battleground States before aiming at Democratic strongholds, but that's about how quickly they take control, not whether they can.

    There's no way to remove these justices, no matter how obviously-dishonest their actions are; that takes impeachment, which you need to get through House and Senate, and see above; you're losing those elections forever now, and SCOTUS is guaranteeing that. We've now discovered it's also self interest, is all.

    From here, it's a short hop to hand-waving literal murders of anyone the Republicans see as "undesirable" or "traitors", and the inevitable spiral into the worst excesses of fascism, and there's no lawful path to stopping it.

    And all it takes is that these 5 SCOTUS judges actually are as partisan and corrupt as they appear to be, for taking out Roe v. Wade. If they'll do that, where will they stop? When you have no means to act against them?

    I also suspect the "leak" of the Roe v. Wade reversal was done by Republicans, so State governments could get their trigger laws set up in time. They're literally the only people who benefited from the leak. The decision was already made, and public outcry and Democratic condemnation was never gonna change it. The leak was a statement that the Republican Justices are on-board and it's full-steam-ahead.


  17. #3317
    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    First time in my adult life, actually my entire life, I really am starting to think the best thing you can do if you value secular society is to consider figuring out how to immigrate to another country.
    I was one of the people who saw the writing on the wall all the way back in 2016. The only reason why I didn't leave back then, and can't leave now, is I lack the money and the means to do so.

    And that's just me. I'm a lower middle-class white guy, who lives in a swing state. I can only imagine how much worse it is for any of the poorer minorities living in the deep red states who likewise just want to fucking leave.

  18. #3318
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There's no way to remove these justices,
    I mean there is if you want to make yourself into a Wikipedia entry.


    Looks like they are going all in now.

    The problem the dems will face is if your electoral strategy is vote for us we will protect you from the far right, and then you don't protect anyone from the far right, gigs up. Spending 30 years carving out a bigger piece of the economic pie for themselves was nice for them I guess but the cynic in me always thinks liberals will get into bed with the far right to keep the status quo rather than challenge it. (look at Macron right now)

  19. #3319
    Quote Originally Posted by RadasNoir View Post
    I was one of the people who saw the writing on the wall all the way back in 2016. The only reason why I didn't leave back then, and can't leave now, is I lack the money and the means to do so.

    And that's just me. I'm a lower middle-class white guy, who lives in a swing state. I can only imagine how much worse it is for any of the poorer minorities living in the deep red states who likewise just want to fucking leave.
    It's days like this where you wish you could have enough money to just get out.

    It's sad because I like to think I'm tolerant of most people; but I'm at a point where I've realized I don't even want evangelical neighbors, or live in a country with a sizeable portion of them.

    But like you I'm in the middle class in a swing state beholden to rural voters because of how we draw our state legislatures.

    I live in PA and the last time we had the senate was in '93 and the House we held for total of 4 years from '07-'10.

    I hear the GOP caucus and they're like jailers. I cannot see them as anything but tyrants who want nothing more than to rain hellfire down on urban populations out of grievances.

  20. #3320
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    I mean there is if you want to make yourself into a Wikipedia entry.


    Looks like they are going all in now.

    The problem the dems will face is if your electoral strategy is vote for us we will protect you from the far right, and then you don't protect anyone from the far right, gigs up. Spending 30 years carving out a bigger piece of the economic pie for themselves was nice for them I guess but the cynic in me always thinks liberals will get into bed with the far right to keep the status quo rather than challenge it. (look at Macron right now)
    ???

    Challenge the status quo? What's happening right now is the result of people being complacent on their rights and thinking that voting doesn't matter because their rights are constitutionally protected. In 2016 46% of young people age 18-29 voted. Most people currently protesting right now and demanding radical change had the chance to prevent this and push for their own agenda but refused to do so

    It's clear to me that people peddling for radical changes don't matter. They don't vote. AOC might be elected in like some super blue district but that doesn't matter if you can't win states like Florida where old people dominate.
    Last edited by NED funded; 2022-06-30 at 05:07 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •