1. #3321
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    /shrug Just the usual "anti-woke/SJW" crap.
    Yeah, but the post count says he has been here for a while and MMO-Champion has failed us by allowing him to hide that information.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  2. #3322
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Who is that guy normally?

    MMO-Champion really needs to do itself and all of us a favor and start giving people the ability to view a users previous name and icon.
    Left-Libertarian most of my life. I'm an atheist and I support abortion.
    "In real life, unlike in Shakespeare, the sweetness of the rose depends upon the name it bears. Things are not only what they are. They are, in very important respects, what they seem to be"

    End of quote. Repeat the line.

  3. #3323
    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    Left-Libertarian most of my life. I'm an atheist and I support abortion.
    Not what I asked, what was your previous profile name and avatar is what I was asking, your posts look disingenuous as hell.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  4. #3324
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Not what I asked, what was your previous profile name and avatar is what I was asking, your posts look disingenuous as hell.
    Mate, I just changed my profile picture.
    "In real life, unlike in Shakespeare, the sweetness of the rose depends upon the name it bears. Things are not only what they are. They are, in very important respects, what they seem to be"

    End of quote. Repeat the line.

  5. #3325
    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    Mate, I just changed my profile picture.
    If you say so but I don’t recognize the name at all. Maybe it just slipped my mind though.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
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  6. #3326
    Elemental Lord Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    If you say so but I don’t recognize the name at all. Maybe it just slipped my mind though.
    Pretty sure I remember his name. One of many I threw on my ignore list, long a go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransath View Post
    Money laundering, especially prior to his election? I couldn't give a flying fuck.

  7. #3327
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    There is not common ground on some of these issues.
    I am not going to half way agree with someone on whether or not gays can get married. It is a yes they can or no they can't.
    And if your answer is they can't because your religion says no, you can leave for a more religious country.
    Couldn't agree more with you friend. Gay marriage and abortion resistance is mostly tied with religion. There's no place for religious decisions that impact non-religious people on a country that separates state from religion.
    Last edited by tikcol; 2022-06-28 at 12:59 AM.
    "In real life, unlike in Shakespeare, the sweetness of the rose depends upon the name it bears. Things are not only what they are. They are, in very important respects, what they seem to be"

    End of quote. Repeat the line.

  8. #3328
    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    If the problem is fear, the answer is knowledge. Each side has to be willing to try to understand the concerns of the other..
    You could take a representative sampling of the American Left and Right each, and I guarantee you that the left-leaning people could explain the right's position FAR better than vice versa.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  9. #3329
    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    Pretty sure I remember his name. One of many I threw on my ignore list, long a go.
    Ah, thank you. I don't have anyone on my ignore list on here. Just seems pointless and counter productive with how MMO-Champion currently has it implemented.

    Doesn't hide the posts, just obscures them, doesn't hide the responses to them at all either so you are literally stuck coming back to a mountain of posts you just would rather skip over while at the same time will block entire threads just because they posted them even if it has actually turned into something worth reading due to other correcting them.

    Just seemed like you lost something decent while gaining virtually nothing using it.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  10. #3330
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    You could take a representative sampling of the American Left and Right each, and I guarantee you that the left-leaning people could explain the right's position FAR better than vice versa.
    These kinds of arguments aren't my cup of tea. It's borderline segregationism and I believe it's in the nation's best interest not to do it. This nation needs unity more than ever.

    First find common ground.
    "In real life, unlike in Shakespeare, the sweetness of the rose depends upon the name it bears. Things are not only what they are. They are, in very important respects, what they seem to be"

    End of quote. Repeat the line.

  11. #3331
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Sure, you can go "no compromise". We all reap what we sow.
    Thats what the Republicans do. Take the ACA.The Republicans were involved virtually every stop on the way. They were at committee meetings, were given the opportunity to view the bill and offer amendments and many if not all were taken. And they still voted against the thing.

    why in gods name should anyone compromise with those assholes? like even that misses the point endus was trying to make but if you want to disregard that its still a loosing proposition. Again not that I think we should expressly go in the direction of political expediency on something like this but even if you do you still lose...
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  12. #3332
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    why in gods name should anyone compromise with those assholes?
    Because Democrats are held to a higher standard than Republicans... It's complete bullshit, but it's incredibly common for conservatives to demand civility and decorum while completely refusing to engage in either themselves.

  13. #3333
    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    These kinds of arguments aren't my cup of tea. It's borderline segregationism and I believe it's in the nation's best interest not to do it. The country needs unity more than ever.
    Yeah, you aren't going to get unity when you have the republican party denying reality and willing to lie, cheat, and steal to get what they want and will actively damage us as a nation just to blame Democrats and would rather destroy the nation than let it survive in ways they don't want.

    And you might think I am being hyperbolic on this, I am not.

    They lied and stole supreme court seats, they lie, cheat, and steal through voter disenfranchisement and gerrymandering a exploiting all they can to have more influence than their own voter base would dictate and I have personally met countless who had no issues and actually supported killing people they didn't agree with with the law being one of the main things holding them back from killing people who they disagreed with but didn't know personally.

    For unity, you need the anti-intellectuals out of the picture or at least out of power along with the biggots. But kinda hard to find a common ground between someone who thinks that people who should be equal and judged based on their actions and motivations and people who think that homosexuality is a form of brain damage and torturing children is justifiable if their parents brought them here requesting asylum justifying that if they hadn't came here then it wouldn't have happened. Again, no hyperbolic remarks there either, these are views I have literally had to deal with.

    Then just look at Texas
    https://texasgop.org/platform/

    Wants to abolish minimum wage, Child Protective Services, wants to redirect money from public schools, wants to remove laws on hate crimes and hate speech and ban facebook and twitter from enforcing their own policies on it, and that's just the start.

    It's their own CHOSEN platform policies and it reads like a horror movie.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  14. #3334
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Because Democrats are held to a higher standard than Republicans... It's complete bullshit, but it's incredibly common for conservatives to demand civility and decorum while completely refusing to engage in either themselves.
    I'd rather not see the political party which holds my favor adopt behavior that I condemn on the opposition.
    "In real life, unlike in Shakespeare, the sweetness of the rose depends upon the name it bears. Things are not only what they are. They are, in very important respects, what they seem to be"

    End of quote. Repeat the line.

  15. #3335
    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    As long as the bots don't vote, I'm sure we will have a fair assessment of the will of the people in the next elections.
    Trump and the conservatives are already planning to steal the election[s]
    "You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation."

  16. #3336
    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    I'd rather not see the political party which holds my favor adopt behavior that I condemn on the opposition.
    Well, then you are in for a treat because my brother in law is a hardcore conservative and when I pointed out what he was fearing that Democrats would do I pointed out that the Republicans had just did them and he supported it and his justification was that the Democrats were a bunch of devil worshiping liberals who would burn in hell. And met a few just like him where power was all that mattered.

    Used to debate the daughter of a local congressman and backed her into a corner multiple times in debates where she would refuse to answer because it would expose her double standard and hypocrisy.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  17. #3337
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    If the problem is fear, the answer is knowledge. Each side has to be willing to try to understand the concerns of the other..

    I believe we must reinvigorate the fire of this idealism in our society, because nothing suffocates the original promise of America more than unbounded cynicism and division.

    Find common ground and build upon it.
    When one side wants to harm and victimize and subjugate innocent people, there is no "common ground" with them. You can't find "common ground" with Nazis and other fascists. The only way to do so the fascists would ever find acceptable is becoming fascists yourself, and supporting their abuses, and even then more often than not it's just a delay tactic until you're on their list for abuse.

    Nazis aren't interested in "understanding". They're interested in hurting you. That's it. There's no debate or discussion to be had. They have to be opposed by whatever means are necessary, up to and including violence, because the alternative is that they will do even worse to you and others, forever, because that's their entire ideological outlook.

    Appeasement doesn't fuckin' work, and it takes a sympathizer to argue that it ever could.

    I don't have to find "common ground" with pedophiles.
    I don't have to find "common ground" with rapists.
    I don't have to find "common ground" with wife beaters.
    And I definitely don't have to find "common ground" with Nazis and other abusive fascists.

    And I take significant offense at the suggestion that I should.


  18. #3338
    Bloodsail Admiral tehdang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    If a woman chooses to end a pregnancy "seconds up to actual birth," that's called "induction." The baby survives that. Call me radical, but I support inducing labor.
    No. The woman can choose to abort the baby. She is absolutely in control in schemes that have no lawful restriction on abortion up to delivery.

    Most of what you've said seems to be based on a misunderstanding of what pro-choice politicians are talking about.
    I said it before, and I won't repeat it too many times after, but people that cannot point to any restrictions at any stage of the pregnancy do permit abortions through all 40 weeks.

    Well most people don't read MMO-C? And this isn't a site just used by Americans? And I mean...congratulations on realizing that people don't usually bother to examine the philosophical groundings of their arguments or that of their opponents'.
    Europeans are expected to have different opinions. Their restrictions are more restrictive than the law in question in Dobbs, as with the majority of states in America.

    Well mass shootings have a much larger effect and on more people per event than abortions late in pregnancy.
    Claiming they are rare, thus deserve to be neglected, is in question here.

    Sorry, but "final minutes" such a mind-bogglingly ignorant thing to say.
    It's mind-bogglingly ignorant to support people who make claim to no restrictions, to support arguments that speak only of permanent mother bodily autonomy, and then neglect any possible change in the final minutes. If you don't speak to a limiting principle, and haven't pointed to any up to this point, then you probably aren't secretly hiding one until later in the debate.

    If only the people they were meant to compromise with had any clue what they were legislating, maybe they would? I mean, I don't agree with compromising a human right, but this is America...
    Twice now you've dodged any responsibility for what pro-choice legislators should do. Are you really in favor of letting pro-life legislators do something, and only argue that what you do is justified based on the other side?

    Like I already said about restrictions: they're not needed, and in fact would do more harm than good.
    1) The medical community is already going to default to "save a viable fetus, if it can be done safely."
    Legally, this isn't mandated. Therefore, the medical community is bound by the patient's desires, and their own conscience (where they may allow another doctor to perform the abortion
    2) The exceptions like "life of the mother" are written by legislators and enforced by prosecutors that know shit about medicine and are usually politically motivated. The situations they are meant to legislate are complicated; there's no test to determine whether or not the life of the mother is endangered or not, or how in danger she is. If she had a 90% chance of dying, does it qualify as an exception? A 70% chance? A 50% chance? A 25% chance? Where is the line between "exceptional situation" and "prosecutable offense?"
    You're really going to tell me that exceptions based on "life of the mother" can be so easily dismissed? This is the case of medical emergencies with a greater than 50% chance the mother will not survive, to speak nothing of the infant in question. It isn't a balancing test where a statistician gets together with the doctor and decides if its 84.7% +/- 0.3%.
    3) Because of the complexity of said situations, medical providers are better qualified than legislators to make these decisions.
    4) Because of- again- the complexity of the situations, knowing that they could be investigated/prosecuted if some government official decides the mother's life "wasn't in enough danger" is sufficient to scare medical providers into preferring inaction when they would otherwise prefer to act. The threat of potential legal action against providers due to vague and politically motivated restrictions will mean more women dying.
    You're shrugging and letting doctors bear the philosophical burden. No dice. Speak on your own part, and don't make doctors into your moral arbiters that you couldn't possibly comment upon. I'd say the same if you were in favor of eugenics, but wanted to yield to doctors on their choices regarding IQ and intellectual capacity.

    This is just you either misunderstanding the pro-choice position and/or ascribing malice where there is none. When pro-choice politicians say they support unrestricted abortions all the way through, they do so with the understanding that the medical community is more equipped than legislators to make these decisions, and that they are going to default to preserving life wherever possible.

    If you want to accuse Democrats of being terrible communicators, have at it. I'll join you. But at least make an attempt to understand what "unrestricted abortion through all 40 weeks" actually means instead of buying into the malicious assumptions pro-lifers have been projecting at us for decades.
    I don't overemphasize malice. It's more of a case of moral cowardice overlapping with neglect. You don't wish to deal with the moral consequences of aborting life capable of living outside the womb, so you outsource it to doctors when you're able. You want to assume some default that speaks most favorably on your position, without any evidence or history to support your assumption. You're really ticked that your position demands unrestricted abortion through 40 weeks, and all you have to defend yourself is that somebody else is empowered to perform unrestricted abortions through 40 weeks. I don't think you have a fully-formed view on this issue. Maybe I should be asking you which doctor you'd appoint to instead tell me when its permissible to perform abortions prior to the final days of 40 weeks, since you really seem to be surrendering all decisions to another.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  19. #3339
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I said it before, and I won't repeat it too many times after, but people that cannot point to any restrictions at any stage of the pregnancy do permit abortions through all 40 weeks.
    Why should there be any restrictions? Why not just abide by medical ethics and patient consent?

    Why make up baseless rules to push religious dogma onto everyone who doesn't believe in it?

    Legally, this isn't mandated. Therefore, the medical community is bound by the patient's desires, and their own conscience (where they may allow another doctor to perform the abortion
    Which is precisely how it should be. The same way it would be with, say, blood transfusions, which some religious groups have dogmatic issues with.

    If you, as a doctor, refuse to treat a patient because of your religious views, though, your licence to practice needs to be revoked because you're not doing your job and it comes at the expense of patient care. It's unethical conduct.

    You're shrugging and letting doctors bear the philosophical burden. No dice. Speak on your own part, and don't make doctors into your moral arbiters that you couldn't possibly comment upon. I'd say the same if you were in favor of eugenics, but wanted to yield to doctors on their choices regarding IQ and intellectual capacity.
    It isn't about any "philosophical burden"; doctors have the technical and diagnostic expertise that's relevant. Philosophy doesn't even enter into the situation, other than normal medical ethical practice, which again, doctors are the most familiar with of anyone.

    I don't overemphasize malice. It's more of a case of moral cowardice overlapping with neglect. You don't wish to deal with the moral consequences of aborting life capable of living outside the womb, so you outsource it to doctors when you're able.
    Here you go;

    There are no "moral consequences" to aborting a fetus.

    None.

    That's religious dogma you are inventing, and you've got no business trying to shove it into my, or anyone else's, life. Keep your religion to yourself, and use it to guide your choices. Once you start trying to control others choices on that ground, you're being a religious fascist and you deserve all the condemnation in the world. Because here's the thing; forcing your religious views on others is an immoral act.
    Last edited by Endus; 2022-06-28 at 02:27 AM.


  20. #3340
    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    I'd rather not see the political party which holds my favor adopt behavior that I condemn on the opposition.
    I just read your past posts. You don't favor the Democrats at all and came off as pro Trump when he was in office. Here's one of your more recent posts about Biden. @Fugus was right, your posts in this thread have been disingenuous.

    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    We'll soon forget everything about it, just like Biden.

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