1. #3341
    Quote Originally Posted by unfilteredJW View Post
    The point you make about getting older and becoming more conservative is a myth.

    Just the current crop of boomers are awful.
    My grandparents both droned on about that forever whenever we got into political discussions (i.e. usually me reminding my grandfather, complaining about unions, that he was longtime union member that benefitted hugely from his membership).

    Meanwhile, I'm starting to approach "middle age" I guess and I'm far more radical and progressive than I was even when I was in college.

    It's fuckin hilarious, because the sentiment reads more as code for, "As you get old you just become more of a selfish asshole who doesn't care about anyone else."

    Which like, yeah, I can buy that as people get older they get increasingly selfish. As you say, just look at the fuckin boomers.

  2. #3342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    I look at it the same way as I look at the climate crisis.

    Insisting that fascism has already won and that there's nothing that can be done to halt its advance is the political analogue to the last stage of climate change denial. It's not helpful and ultimately just services malign interests.
    Oh there's plenty that can be done. I support peaceful solutions so long as said peaceful solutions are working. But maybe it's time to put that second amendment "we need to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government" shit into action. The irony being that the conservatives are the ones bringing the tyranny.

    While doomerism might be "useless" it's also not that far out of the realm of reality now, given just how many ideological conservative judges have been packed into the courts. It's going to take Democrats doing something huge, that the courts CANNOT oppose, to stop the steady march of regression, and the Democrats seemingly don't have the balls to get bold.

    The Republicans are coming for trans rights, gay rights, and everything else that "the book" (and yet "the book" says nothing about such things) says is wrong, or at least what they think it says is wrong. They have the courts. They're galvanized and have momentum. I'd be genuinely concerned for my safety and rights if I wasn't a cishet white male. But I am concerned for the rights and safeties of all my friends that are being threatened by religious fanatics.
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  3. #3343
    Elemental Lord unfilteredJW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    My grandparents both droned on about that forever whenever we got into political discussions (i.e. usually me reminding my grandfather, complaining about unions, that he was longtime union member that benefitted hugely from his membership).

    Meanwhile, I'm starting to approach "middle age" I guess and I'm far more radical and progressive than I was even when I was in college.

    It's fuckin hilarious, because the sentiment reads more as code for, "As you get old you just become more of a selfish asshole who doesn't care about anyone else."

    Which like, yeah, I can buy that as people get older they get increasingly selfish. As you say, just look at the fuckin boomers.
    That generation has a gene coded need to project their awfulness onto others to justify there own terribleness.

    Shockingly, they vote Republican. Funny that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Venara
    Half this forum would be permanently banned if we did everything some of our users regularly demand or otherwise expect us to do.
    Actual blue mod response on doing what they volunteered to do. No wonder this place is infested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    I look at it the same way as I look at the climate crisis.

    Insisting that fascism has already won and that there's nothing that can be done to halt its advance is the political analogue to the last stage of climate change denial. It's not helpful and ultimately just services malign interests.
    That's very easy to say. But practically speaking, what are your ideas for solutions to the current litany of problems the United States faces? Specifics, please - not just ideological statements. How do we overcome this onslaught of oppression?

  5. #3345
    Elemental Lord unfilteredJW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    That's very easy to say. What are you ideas for solutions to the current litany of problems the United States faces? Specifics, please - not just ideological statements.

    - - - Updated - - -

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venara
    Half this forum would be permanently banned if we did everything some of our users regularly demand or otherwise expect us to do.
    Actual blue mod response on doing what they volunteered to do. No wonder this place is infested.

  6. #3346
    Just to get it out of the way, I'm not playing BoTh SiDeS game, but it seems like even when we ignore all the bullshit the conservatives are doing to skew everything in their favor, despite not holding a majority opinion, supporters of the Democrats also seemed to like fighting with each other way more than Republicans do. Yeah, tribalism is bad, but in the US' winner take all political system infighting is the worst thing that you can do. The Conservatives don't have to like their candidate (you can see their primary is still very heated), but once they get someone they unite behind them because they know that's how you can get things done: push your candidate through and then make sure he does his thing. On the other hand Democrat supporters can just choose not vote or vote for third party candidates because "lol fuck the establishment"

    It took the Dems one loss in 2016 over some of the pettiest things for Republicans to win presidency and elect -3- of 9 SC judges which is a direct cause of this thread even existing. It didn't need to be Trump, ANY Republican president would have done the same. I don't know if it is too late at this point, but the best thing you can do to -try- to set things right is making sure Republican doesn't win another election ever again, despite how much rigging they have been doing, to even have a chance.

  7. #3347
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Dems can't keep blaming the more left side of the party when bullshit like this is a regular occurrence

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-abortion.html

    We can't always get our way but the elected officials do fuck all or get in the way of doing fucking anything you can't blame the people who are tired of supporting the party.

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  8. #3348
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Dems can't keep blaming the more left side of the party when bullshit like this is a regular occurrence

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-abortion.html

    We can't always get our way but the elected officials do fuck all or get in the way of doing fucking anything you can't blame the people who are tired of supporting the party.
    Yeah, I'm sadly not surprised they're still refusing to budge on the issue. Which fuck sucks, because they're killing it for literally the rest of us and hurting Democratic chances of keeping or expanding their majorities.

    I'm just glad to hear that apparently progressives are taking over the Virginia Democratic Party and they're going to try to start having a presence in the state again.

  9. #3349
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Yeah, I'm sadly not surprised they're still refusing to budge on the issue. Which fuck sucks, because they're killing it for literally the rest of us and hurting Democratic chances of keeping or expanding their majorities.

    I'm just glad to hear that apparently progressives are taking over the Virginia Democratic Party and they're going to try to start having a presence in the state again.
    I REALLY hope that they find something on Manchin that points to illegal levels of corruption over this and he gets his ass nailed to the wall.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  10. #3350
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    I REALLY hope that they find something on Manchin that points to illegal levels of corruption over this and he gets his ass nailed to the wall.
    You mean, in addition to all of the things they already found?

    Oh, you said illegal? Sorry, this country requires cartoonishly over the top and obvious corruption to actually be illegal. Why do the illegal stuff when soooo much 'soft corruption' is perfectly legal?
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  11. #3351
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    You mean, in addition to all of the things they already found?

    Oh, you said illegal? Sorry, this country requires cartoonishly over the top and obvious corruption to actually be illegal. Why do the illegal stuff when soooo much 'soft corruption' is perfectly legal?
    His stuff is screwed up on so many levels that SHOULD be illegal but isn't. I am hoping he crossed a line that even it didn't allow for.

    But honestly, I think the only reason Manchin ever really ran as a Democrat was because his state was so fucked up there his brand isn't far enough gone to make it as a Republican.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  12. #3352
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Oh there's plenty that can be done. I support peaceful solutions so long as said peaceful solutions are working. But maybe it's time to put that second amendment "we need to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government" shit into action. The irony being that the conservatives are the ones bringing the tyranny.

    While doomerism might be "useless" it's also not that far out of the realm of reality now, given just how many ideological conservative judges have been packed into the courts. It's going to take Democrats doing something huge, that the courts CANNOT oppose, to stop the steady march of regression, and the Democrats seemingly don't have the balls to get bold.

    The Republicans are coming for trans rights, gay rights, and everything else that "the book" (and yet "the book" says nothing about such things) says is wrong, or at least what they think it says is wrong. They have the courts. They're galvanized and have momentum. I'd be genuinely concerned for my safety and rights if I wasn't a cishet white male. But I am concerned for the rights and safeties of all my friends that are being threatened by religious fanatics.
    You are just on the other end of a culture shift much like conservatives were in the 90s.

    Just like they desperately faught to have gay marriage not be called marriage I can't imagine you will be anymore effective.

    The old guard falls to the new. It is the way of things I know that isnt a comfort but people don't believe in the political system enough to engage with it. Worse the Democrats are fracturing hard while the Republicans are being bolstered. A lot of minority groups that historically made up the Democrats strength support... for a lack of a better term " traditional" views on the family.

  13. #3353
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    Quote Originally Posted by david0925 View Post
    Just to get it out of the way, I'm not playing BoTh SiDeS game, but it seems like even when we ignore all the bullshit the conservatives are doing to skew everything in their favor, despite not holding a majority opinion, supporters of the Democrats also seemed to like fighting with each other way more than Republicans do. Yeah, tribalism is bad, but in the US' winner take all political system infighting is the worst thing that you can do.
    Exactly.

    The Conservatives don't have to like their candidate (you can see their primary is still very heated), but once they get someone they unite behind them because they know that's how you can get things done: push your candidate through and then make sure he does his thing. On the other hand Democrat supporters can just choose not vote or vote for third party candidates because "lol fuck the establishment"

    It took the Dems one loss in 2016 over some of the pettiest things for Republicans to win presidency and elect -3- of 9 SC judges which is a direct cause of this thread even existing. It didn't need to be Trump, ANY Republican president would have done the same. I don't know if it is too late at this point, but the best thing you can do to -try- to set things right is making sure Republican doesn't win another election ever again, despite how much rigging they have been doing, to even have a chance.
    This is what the "bUt HeR eMaIlS" and "bUt BeRnIe SaNdErS gOt ThE pRiMaRy StOlEn By ThE eStAbLiShMeNt!" crowd seem to forget. And were too stupid to realize at the time. 1 SCOTUS judge was dead, 1 was very close to retirement, and 1 suddenly died without warning but we couldn't have foreseen that last one. And while it is debatable whether that 1 retired judge would have retired under Hillary, that's still 1 SCOTUS seat of a FORMER PROGRESSIVE JUDGE that needed to be filled.

    If Hillary had won in 2016, it would have been FUCKING MASSIVE for progressive policy and a huge step forward with this country if Hillary had won.

    But they done fucked up.


    I'm sorry if you didn't "like Hillary". And no, all of the conspiracies about how Bernie Sanders got cheated out of his primary win are just that CONSPIRACIES. They are the feelings of sore losers looking for an excuse as to why their candidate didn't get the majority of votes, with zero substantiating evidence to back those claims up. 2016 was about the Supreme Court. We told you, again and again and again and again. And you wouldn't listen.
    Last edited by Cthulhu 2020; 2022-07-01 at 01:57 AM.
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  14. #3354
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    and 1 suddenly died without warning but we couldn't have foreseen that last one.
    Not true. Lots of people foresaw that one. Quite a few people specifically pointed that out, especially after she got cancer.

  15. #3355
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Not true. Lots of people foresaw that one. Quite a few people specifically pointed that out, especially after she got cancer.
    I was trying to give the idiots the benefit of the doubt even though RBG was serving from the hospital for a long time. I felt they deserved at least a little credit for being ignorant of the 2 seats that needed filling imminently.
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  16. #3356
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    This is what the "bUt HeR eMaIlS" and "bUt BeRnIe SaNdErS gOt ThE pRiMaRy StOlEn By ThE eStAbLiShMeNt!" crowd seem to forget. And were too stupid to realize at the time. 1 SCOTUS judge was dead, 1 was very close to retirement, and 1 suddenly died without warning but we couldn't have foreseen that last one. And while it is debatable whether that 1 retired judge would have retired under Hillary, that's still 1 SCOTUS seat of a FORMER PROGRESSIVE JUDGE that needed to be filled.
    Ok, but counterpoint: "Bernie Bros" just understood that human rights being dependent on whether or not one particular octogenarian lives or dies is the most reasonable way to organize a judiciary.

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  17. #3357
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    Look at all the side effects of the new laws being passed by each state.

    Pray you do not get breast cancer or need hormones in certain states, because you're fucked.
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  18. #3358
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Exactly.



    This is what the "bUt HeR eMaIlS" and "bUt BeRnIe SaNdErS gOt ThE pRiMaRy StOlEn By ThE eStAbLiShMeNt!" crowd seem to forget. And were too stupid to realize at the time. 1 SCOTUS judge was dead, 1 was very close to retirement, and 1 suddenly died without warning but we couldn't have foreseen that last one. And while it is debatable whether that 1 retired judge would have retired under Hillary, that's still 1 SCOTUS seat of a FORMER PROGRESSIVE JUDGE that needed to be filled.

    If Hillary had won in 2016, it would have been FUCKING MASSIVE for progressive policy and a huge step forward with this country if Hillary had won.

    But they done fucked up.


    I'm sorry if you didn't "like Hillary". And no, all of the conspiracies about how Bernie Sanders got cheated out of his primary win are just that CONSPIRACIES. They are the feelings of sore losers looking for an excuse as to why their candidate didn't get the majority of votes, with zero substantiating evidence to back those claims up. 2016 was about the Supreme Court. We told you, again and again and again and again. And you wouldn't listen.
    Putting this on 2016 is beyond lazy at this point. It's one things to say non-voters made it easier to win but you can't just shift blame away from the candidates and parties job it is to win over voters.

    You can't just shift blame from the Democrats who didn't at least raise hell every day while McConnell held the seat for an entire year. The GOP will raise hell for less, doesn't matter how long they need to do it and if they'll end up losing anyway.

    You can't just shift blame from abortion note being codified over the past DECADES when the GOP was very open about their goals and plans if given the opportunity.

    You can't just shift blame from RBG (and may she rest in peace) for not retiring when she opportunity was ripe.

    You can't just shift blame from Democrats who are still twiddling their thumbs, obstructing, singing songs, and reading poems, hoping the cold hearts of the GOP spontaneously melt and 'do the right thing'.

    You can't just shift blame from Democrats who were politically pro-life while in office or avoided the top when it politically advantageous for them to not come out as being pro-choice.


    Stop making excuses for people who aren't doing their jobs. They'll give you every excuse as to why they how no role in anything while asking for donations in the same breath.


    People who rarely vote (if ever) didn't vote for a candidate they didn't like in 2016. Their RIGHT AND CHOICE is a tiny piece of this shit pie. If you want to make sure those people vote in 22, 24, and beyond, stop making them scapegoats.

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  19. #3359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post


    Look at all the side effects of the new laws being passed by each state.

    Pray you do not get breast cancer or need hormones in certain states, because you're fucked.
    Yep. Yep, yep, yep...and more yep. And this just one miniscule example of the devastating loss of rights the people of the United States have just recently suffered with Roe falling. But people like @tehdang just wanna own the 'libs, ignorantly flailing about a discussion they can't even comprehend, while their Aunt and Cousin die of imminently treatable diseases. He'll have an excuse for that as well. Not that he'll understand it of course.

    And 'dang is just the epitome of the GQP voter/supporter. Their blind faith to a religious based political party is based on hate and anger, instead of caring and hope.

  20. #3360
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Yep. Yep, yep, yep...and more yep. And this just one miniscule example of the devastating loss of rights the people of the United States have just recently suffered with Roe falling. But people like @tehdang just wanna own the 'libs, ignorantly flailing about a discussion they can't even comprehend, while their Aunt and Cousin die of imminently treatable diseases. He'll have an excuse for that as well. Not that he'll understand it of course.

    And 'dang is just the epitome of the GQP voter/supporter. Their blind faith to a religious based political party is based on hate and anger, instead of caring and hope.
    "Pro life" btw

    LOL!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Putting this on 2016 is beyond lazy at this point. It's one things to say non-voters made it easier to win but you can't just shift blame away from the candidates and parties job it is to win over voters.

    You can't just shift blame from the Democrats who didn't at least raise hell every day while McConnell held the seat for an entire year. The GOP will raise hell for less, doesn't matter how long they need to do it and if they'll end up losing anyway.

    You can't just shift blame from abortion note being codified over the past DECADES when the GOP was very open about their goals and plans if given the opportunity.

    You can't just shift blame from RBG (and may she rest in peace) for not retiring when she opportunity was ripe.

    You can't just shift blame from Democrats who are still twiddling their thumbs, obstructing, singing songs, and reading poems, hoping the cold hearts of the GOP spontaneously melt and 'do the right thing'.

    You can't just shift blame from Democrats who were politically pro-life while in office or avoided the top when it politically advantageous for them to not come out as being pro-choice.


    Stop making excuses for people who aren't doing their jobs. They'll give you every excuse as to why they how no role in anything while asking for donations in the same breath.


    People who rarely vote (if ever) didn't vote for a candidate they didn't like in 2016. Their RIGHT AND CHOICE is a tiny piece of this shit pie. If you want to make sure those people vote in 22, 24, and beyond, stop making them scapegoats.
    Yes, this is mostly the right's fault, they are the ones being devils.

    No, we can blame plenty of people. If the Dems won in 2016, and we got 3 progressive judges, far more progress would have been made.

    Abortion rights "should" have been codified, but they weren't. Protect what you have. Stop going pie-in-the-sky like so much of the left does. Where they won't accept gradual progress, they need rapid, radical progress RIGHT NOW or they won't be happy. That's contributing to this country going into the shitter.
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