1. #3581
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    I REALLY hope that they find something on Manchin that points to illegal levels of corruption over this and he gets his ass nailed to the wall.
    You mean, in addition to all of the things they already found?

    Oh, you said illegal? Sorry, this country requires cartoonishly over the top and obvious corruption to actually be illegal. Why do the illegal stuff when soooo much 'soft corruption' is perfectly legal?
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  2. #3582
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    You mean, in addition to all of the things they already found?

    Oh, you said illegal? Sorry, this country requires cartoonishly over the top and obvious corruption to actually be illegal. Why do the illegal stuff when soooo much 'soft corruption' is perfectly legal?
    His stuff is screwed up on so many levels that SHOULD be illegal but isn't. I am hoping he crossed a line that even it didn't allow for.

    But honestly, I think the only reason Manchin ever really ran as a Democrat was because his state was so fucked up there his brand isn't far enough gone to make it as a Republican.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  3. #3583
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Oh there's plenty that can be done. I support peaceful solutions so long as said peaceful solutions are working. But maybe it's time to put that second amendment "we need to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government" shit into action. The irony being that the conservatives are the ones bringing the tyranny.

    While doomerism might be "useless" it's also not that far out of the realm of reality now, given just how many ideological conservative judges have been packed into the courts. It's going to take Democrats doing something huge, that the courts CANNOT oppose, to stop the steady march of regression, and the Democrats seemingly don't have the balls to get bold.

    The Republicans are coming for trans rights, gay rights, and everything else that "the book" (and yet "the book" says nothing about such things) says is wrong, or at least what they think it says is wrong. They have the courts. They're galvanized and have momentum. I'd be genuinely concerned for my safety and rights if I wasn't a cishet white male. But I am concerned for the rights and safeties of all my friends that are being threatened by religious fanatics.
    You are just on the other end of a culture shift much like conservatives were in the 90s.

    Just like they desperately faught to have gay marriage not be called marriage I can't imagine you will be anymore effective.

    The old guard falls to the new. It is the way of things I know that isnt a comfort but people don't believe in the political system enough to engage with it. Worse the Democrats are fracturing hard while the Republicans are being bolstered. A lot of minority groups that historically made up the Democrats strength support... for a lack of a better term " traditional" views on the family.

  4. #3584
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david0925 View Post
    Just to get it out of the way, I'm not playing BoTh SiDeS game, but it seems like even when we ignore all the bullshit the conservatives are doing to skew everything in their favor, despite not holding a majority opinion, supporters of the Democrats also seemed to like fighting with each other way more than Republicans do. Yeah, tribalism is bad, but in the US' winner take all political system infighting is the worst thing that you can do.
    Exactly.

    The Conservatives don't have to like their candidate (you can see their primary is still very heated), but once they get someone they unite behind them because they know that's how you can get things done: push your candidate through and then make sure he does his thing. On the other hand Democrat supporters can just choose not vote or vote for third party candidates because "lol fuck the establishment"

    It took the Dems one loss in 2016 over some of the pettiest things for Republicans to win presidency and elect -3- of 9 SC judges which is a direct cause of this thread even existing. It didn't need to be Trump, ANY Republican president would have done the same. I don't know if it is too late at this point, but the best thing you can do to -try- to set things right is making sure Republican doesn't win another election ever again, despite how much rigging they have been doing, to even have a chance.
    This is what the "bUt HeR eMaIlS" and "bUt BeRnIe SaNdErS gOt ThE pRiMaRy StOlEn By ThE eStAbLiShMeNt!" crowd seem to forget. And were too stupid to realize at the time. 1 SCOTUS judge was dead, 1 was very close to retirement, and 1 suddenly died without warning but we couldn't have foreseen that last one. And while it is debatable whether that 1 retired judge would have retired under Hillary, that's still 1 SCOTUS seat of a FORMER PROGRESSIVE JUDGE that needed to be filled.

    If Hillary had won in 2016, it would have been FUCKING MASSIVE for progressive policy and a huge step forward with this country if Hillary had won.

    But they done fucked up.


    I'm sorry if you didn't "like Hillary". And no, all of the conspiracies about how Bernie Sanders got cheated out of his primary win are just that CONSPIRACIES. They are the feelings of sore losers looking for an excuse as to why their candidate didn't get the majority of votes, with zero substantiating evidence to back those claims up. 2016 was about the Supreme Court. We told you, again and again and again and again. And you wouldn't listen.
    Last edited by Cthulhu 2020; 2022-07-01 at 01:57 AM.
    Plenty of people have been holding their breath waiting for me to fail. I think they all suffocated years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Just came here to remind people that the right has no moral conscious. If they ever try to morally scold you, it's not because they think what you're doing is wrong. Is because it's effective, and want to discourage you from doing it.

  5. #3585
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    and 1 suddenly died without warning but we couldn't have foreseen that last one.
    Not true. Lots of people foresaw that one. Quite a few people specifically pointed that out, especially after she got cancer.

  6. #3586
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Not true. Lots of people foresaw that one. Quite a few people specifically pointed that out, especially after she got cancer.
    I was trying to give the idiots the benefit of the doubt even though RBG was serving from the hospital for a long time. I felt they deserved at least a little credit for being ignorant of the 2 seats that needed filling imminently.
    Plenty of people have been holding their breath waiting for me to fail. I think they all suffocated years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Just came here to remind people that the right has no moral conscious. If they ever try to morally scold you, it's not because they think what you're doing is wrong. Is because it's effective, and want to discourage you from doing it.

  7. #3587
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    This is what the "bUt HeR eMaIlS" and "bUt BeRnIe SaNdErS gOt ThE pRiMaRy StOlEn By ThE eStAbLiShMeNt!" crowd seem to forget. And were too stupid to realize at the time. 1 SCOTUS judge was dead, 1 was very close to retirement, and 1 suddenly died without warning but we couldn't have foreseen that last one. And while it is debatable whether that 1 retired judge would have retired under Hillary, that's still 1 SCOTUS seat of a FORMER PROGRESSIVE JUDGE that needed to be filled.
    Ok, but counterpoint: "Bernie Bros" just understood that human rights being dependent on whether or not one particular octogenarian lives or dies is the most reasonable way to organize a judiciary.

    (/s)
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  8. #3588
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Look at all the side effects of the new laws being passed by each state.

    Pray you do not get breast cancer or need hormones in certain states, because you're fucked.
    Plenty of people have been holding their breath waiting for me to fail. I think they all suffocated years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Just came here to remind people that the right has no moral conscious. If they ever try to morally scold you, it's not because they think what you're doing is wrong. Is because it's effective, and want to discourage you from doing it.

  9. #3589
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Exactly.



    This is what the "bUt HeR eMaIlS" and "bUt BeRnIe SaNdErS gOt ThE pRiMaRy StOlEn By ThE eStAbLiShMeNt!" crowd seem to forget. And were too stupid to realize at the time. 1 SCOTUS judge was dead, 1 was very close to retirement, and 1 suddenly died without warning but we couldn't have foreseen that last one. And while it is debatable whether that 1 retired judge would have retired under Hillary, that's still 1 SCOTUS seat of a FORMER PROGRESSIVE JUDGE that needed to be filled.

    If Hillary had won in 2016, it would have been FUCKING MASSIVE for progressive policy and a huge step forward with this country if Hillary had won.

    But they done fucked up.


    I'm sorry if you didn't "like Hillary". And no, all of the conspiracies about how Bernie Sanders got cheated out of his primary win are just that CONSPIRACIES. They are the feelings of sore losers looking for an excuse as to why their candidate didn't get the majority of votes, with zero substantiating evidence to back those claims up. 2016 was about the Supreme Court. We told you, again and again and again and again. And you wouldn't listen.
    Putting this on 2016 is beyond lazy at this point. It's one things to say non-voters made it easier to win but you can't just shift blame away from the candidates and parties job it is to win over voters.

    You can't just shift blame from the Democrats who didn't at least raise hell every day while McConnell held the seat for an entire year. The GOP will raise hell for less, doesn't matter how long they need to do it and if they'll end up losing anyway.

    You can't just shift blame from abortion note being codified over the past DECADES when the GOP was very open about their goals and plans if given the opportunity.

    You can't just shift blame from RBG (and may she rest in peace) for not retiring when she opportunity was ripe.

    You can't just shift blame from Democrats who are still twiddling their thumbs, obstructing, singing songs, and reading poems, hoping the cold hearts of the GOP spontaneously melt and 'do the right thing'.

    You can't just shift blame from Democrats who were politically pro-life while in office or avoided the top when it politically advantageous for them to not come out as being pro-choice.


    Stop making excuses for people who aren't doing their jobs. They'll give you every excuse as to why they how no role in anything while asking for donations in the same breath.


    People who rarely vote (if ever) didn't vote for a candidate they didn't like in 2016. Their RIGHT AND CHOICE is a tiny piece of this shit pie. If you want to make sure those people vote in 22, 24, and beyond, stop making them scapegoats.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  10. #3590
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post


    Look at all the side effects of the new laws being passed by each state.

    Pray you do not get breast cancer or need hormones in certain states, because you're fucked.
    Yep. Yep, yep, yep...and more yep. And this just one miniscule example of the devastating loss of rights the people of the United States have just recently suffered with Roe falling. But people like @tehdang just wanna own the 'libs, ignorantly flailing about a discussion they can't even comprehend, while their Aunt and Cousin die of imminently treatable diseases. He'll have an excuse for that as well. Not that he'll understand it of course.

    And 'dang is just the epitome of the GQP voter/supporter. Their blind faith to a religious based political party is based on hate and anger, instead of caring and hope.

  11. #3591
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Yep. Yep, yep, yep...and more yep. And this just one miniscule example of the devastating loss of rights the people of the United States have just recently suffered with Roe falling. But people like @tehdang just wanna own the 'libs, ignorantly flailing about a discussion they can't even comprehend, while their Aunt and Cousin die of imminently treatable diseases. He'll have an excuse for that as well. Not that he'll understand it of course.

    And 'dang is just the epitome of the GQP voter/supporter. Their blind faith to a religious based political party is based on hate and anger, instead of caring and hope.
    "Pro life" btw

    LOL!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Putting this on 2016 is beyond lazy at this point. It's one things to say non-voters made it easier to win but you can't just shift blame away from the candidates and parties job it is to win over voters.

    You can't just shift blame from the Democrats who didn't at least raise hell every day while McConnell held the seat for an entire year. The GOP will raise hell for less, doesn't matter how long they need to do it and if they'll end up losing anyway.

    You can't just shift blame from abortion note being codified over the past DECADES when the GOP was very open about their goals and plans if given the opportunity.

    You can't just shift blame from RBG (and may she rest in peace) for not retiring when she opportunity was ripe.

    You can't just shift blame from Democrats who are still twiddling their thumbs, obstructing, singing songs, and reading poems, hoping the cold hearts of the GOP spontaneously melt and 'do the right thing'.

    You can't just shift blame from Democrats who were politically pro-life while in office or avoided the top when it politically advantageous for them to not come out as being pro-choice.


    Stop making excuses for people who aren't doing their jobs. They'll give you every excuse as to why they how no role in anything while asking for donations in the same breath.


    People who rarely vote (if ever) didn't vote for a candidate they didn't like in 2016. Their RIGHT AND CHOICE is a tiny piece of this shit pie. If you want to make sure those people vote in 22, 24, and beyond, stop making them scapegoats.
    Yes, this is mostly the right's fault, they are the ones being devils.

    No, we can blame plenty of people. If the Dems won in 2016, and we got 3 progressive judges, far more progress would have been made.

    Abortion rights "should" have been codified, but they weren't. Protect what you have. Stop going pie-in-the-sky like so much of the left does. Where they won't accept gradual progress, they need rapid, radical progress RIGHT NOW or they won't be happy. That's contributing to this country going into the shitter.
    Plenty of people have been holding their breath waiting for me to fail. I think they all suffocated years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Just came here to remind people that the right has no moral conscious. If they ever try to morally scold you, it's not because they think what you're doing is wrong. Is because it's effective, and want to discourage you from doing it.

  12. #3592
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Abortion rights "should" have been codified, but they weren't. Protect what you have. Stop going pie-in-the-sky like so much of the left does. Where they won't accept gradual progress, they need rapid, radical progress RIGHT NOW or they won't be happy. That's contributing to this country going into the shitter.
    Can't agree with this, because there are very few, if any, "pie in the sky" people actually in Congress.

    Edit: Yes I agree abortion rights should have been codified. I don't think "pie in the sky" is anywhere NEAR a problem from an institutional standpoint with the Dems.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post


    Look at all the side effects of the new laws being passed by each state.

    Pray you do not get breast cancer or need hormones in certain states, because you're fucked.
    Holy cow; I know a children's oncologist in Missouri; I'll have to ask her how this will affect children that have...uh...actually been born
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  13. #3593
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    I was trying to give the idiots the benefit of the doubt even though RBG was serving from the hospital for a long time. I felt they deserved at least a little credit for being ignorant of the 2 seats that needed filling imminently.
    Honestly, I think Justice Kennedy's retirement was a much bigger surprise than RBG's death. You may not remember, but that happened a full year into Trump's presidency. It was hardly imminent in 2016.
    Last edited by DarkTZeratul; 2022-07-01 at 06:16 AM.

  14. #3594
    Quote Originally Posted by unfilteredJW View Post
    The point you make about getting older and becoming more conservative is a myth.

    Just the current crop of boomers are awful.
    Nah, it is not that a myth. It is a trend quite easily observable. It happens in most election, and the same was right before the "boomer generation".

  15. #3595
    Stood in the Fire VMSmith's Avatar
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    I feel it's worth pointing out that the Democratic leadership vocally endorsed and supported an anti-choice candidate in Texas against a pro-choice challenger, who ended up being narrowly defeated by the "Democrat" who was in favor of overturning RvW.

    But keep blaming Bernie supporters, it's totally not the Democratic Party not really giving a shit about abortion rights other than as a fundraiser.
    Last edited by VMSmith; 2022-07-01 at 06:10 AM.

  16. #3596
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Oh, I know who he is, I have a good memory and typically remember all the absolute shitters that exist on this forum.
    I always marvel at regulars who don't.

  17. #3597
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    I always marvel at regulars who don't.
    You and me both. There aren't that many here in this specific sub-forum, and it definitely leans more to the left after so many more right-leaning folks left, so it always stands out to me when we have one of those on the right posting. They're easy to remember, imo, even those that try to hide with name/avatar changes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by david0925 View Post
    supporters of the Democrats also seemed to like fighting with each other way more than Republicans do.
    This is the major difference in the parties, really. Republicans are effectively a hivemind, imo; they all want the same thing, so they have a unified approach to getting what they want. Whereas Democrats are the definitely of a "big tent" party, in that they have members that, generally, have a very wide range of different opinions on things. So their messaging tends to not be consistent.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Putting this on 2016 is beyond lazy at this point.
    I don't think it is, tbh. While it goes back further than 2016, that election was a bit of a turning point which lead to a knock-on effect, bringing the US to where it is now. Yes, Democrats can do, and should have done, a whole lot more than they have. Especially when the sum total of preparation over even just the last couple of months is to read a fucking poem. So while they do share quite a lot of blame in all this, some of that blame still falls on people that voted certain ways in 2016, if they bothered to vote at all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    But keep blaming Bernie supporters
    The reality is that they absolutely deserve some of the blame, depending on how they behaved. No getting away from that fact.

  18. #3598
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    I REALLY hope that they find something on Manchin that points to illegal levels of corruption over this and he gets his ass nailed to the wall.
    And then you'd get someone in his seat who is not even pretending to be a Democrat.

  19. #3599
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    And then you'd get someone in his seat who is not even pretending to be a Democrat.
    That's a double edge. And yea, it cuts worse the other way. But the more honest edge may suck harder but...damn.

  20. #3600
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    snip
    It's not beyond lazy. It's identifying a problem that can directly be solved by the voters, for issues that will directly affect the voters. The Conservatives, whom a lot of liberals deem as "stupid", actually see the bigger picture here. Do they know or care that they are voting their own interest in a lot of areas? No, they don't. But as long as Republicans talk about Bible, Guns, and pro-life, they get their votes to put SC judges to make sure these things get done, and so far they got at least one of these things done.

    Some of us seem to focus on 2016 because it is the year that had the biggest impact as far as SC goes, but pro-liberal people either don't know, or don't care (I will voter blame every single election on people that don't go out; but more damage is done in certain years than others, and that's exactly what 2016 was). If they don't get their ideal candidate they give you the finger by staying home, which is basically half a vote for the opposite party. Yes, you definitely voiced your opinion that you don't like the Democratic candidate; you showed them. What did you get out of it? Did any of Republican policy in 2016-2020 benefit you more than Democrat's counterpart, while they are doing actual harm elsewhere.

    People had a chance here to pick between Mcdonalds and poison, and the entire population have to eat one of them. You don't get to walk out and go to a different store. They choose to abstain because their favorite organic keto vegan carnivore diet wasn't selected over Mcdonalds. Well, is poison better now?

    I sincerely hope those that abstained aren't part of the LGBTQ group because you are about to be directly affected next, and you only have yourself to blame for it.

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