1. #4301
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Arbitrary distinction, based on nonsense and lies. A baby is a baby all the way through pregnancy.
    Actual medical and legal terms are "based on nonsense and lies" says forum user celebrating women losing a right to make their own choices about their bodies.
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Their enemies are busy labeling people "shitheads," dodging all the tough arguments (to the extent they acknowledge contrary arguments existing), and going over all the prejudices that make them believe they're arguing with bad people.
    "Dodge tough questions" types the poster with people on ignore who he couldn't handle the tough questions of.

  2. #4302
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Arbitrary distinction, based on nonsense and lies. A baby is a baby all the way through pregnancy.

    You lost, buddy. Abortion is going to be illegal and/or highly restrictive, as it should be, in most of the country.
    Not any time the people are actually asked.

  3. #4303
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    You lost me at "Unborn Child". Until a fetus actually develops a consciousness, it isn't a child or a person.

    And are going by "potential", then you just outlawed getting rid of any infection because there is a chance that could develop a consciousness.

    And whose morals are you going by? Because you are the immoral one in this going from what I seeing.

    Edit: Heck, science has already turned stem cells into eggs and sperm and even an actual life when it comes to smaller species, your logic would mean that soon the skin off my ass would be as deserving of life as your children because it could become a child too.
    You remember anything before you were 4 years old? Having consciousness as a rule is another bullship cope to self justify killing your baby.

    That's all I ever read from you guys.

    Oh a fetus isn't a baby. They have no consciousness. They're not a human being. Blah blah blah.

    These are lies you tell yourselves so you can bare looking at yourselves in the mirror after killing your son or daughter and not seeing a sick twisted monster staring back at you


    Infracted for trolling.
    Last edited by xskarma; 2022-09-13 at 05:58 PM.

  4. #4304
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    You remember anything before you were 4 years old? Having consciousness as a rule is another bullship cope to self justify killing your baby.

    That's all I ever read from you guys.

    Oh a fetus isn't a baby. They have no consciousness. They're not a human being. Blah blah blah.

    These are lies you tell yourselves so you can bare looking at yourselves in the mirror after killing your son or daughter and not seeing a sick twisted monster staring back at you
    The only one causing harm here is you and your ilk by removing rights away from people while being unaffected.

    Fucking deplorable. And then you have the gall to speak of morals.
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Their enemies are busy labeling people "shitheads," dodging all the tough arguments (to the extent they acknowledge contrary arguments existing), and going over all the prejudices that make them believe they're arguing with bad people.
    "Dodge tough questions" types the poster with people on ignore who he couldn't handle the tough questions of.

  5. #4305
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    No, we're just all about bodily autonomy and the state having as minimal a role as necessary when it comes to people making their own health care decisions as they relate to their own bodies.
    No you guys are about baby murder justified because you made shitty decisions one night at the bar. Who's fighting for the baby's autonomy and rights.

    Who? Cuz it sure as hell isn't their shitty excuse for a mom.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by unfilteredJW View Post
    The only one causing harm here is you and your ilk by removing rights away from people while being unaffected.

    Fucking deplorable. And then you have the gall to speak of morals.
    Saving the lives of fucking babies is immoral? I feel bad for you guys, I truly do since you've been completely misguided by your parents or w/e college you went to.

  6. #4306
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    You remember anything before you were 4 years old? Having consciousness as a rule is another bullship cope to self justify killing your baby.
    1> Yes.
    2> Memory retention isn't the same thing, anyway.

    That's all I ever read from you guys.

    Oh a fetus isn't a baby. They have no consciousness. They're not a human being. Blah blah blah.

    These are lies you tell yourselves so you can bare looking at yourselves in the mirror after killing your son or daughter and not seeing a sick twisted monster staring back at you
    You're projecting, a lot. To push a religiofascist attack on women.


  7. #4307
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    I feel bad for you guys, I truly do since you've been completely misguided by your parents or w/e college you went to.
    Project harder.
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Their enemies are busy labeling people "shitheads," dodging all the tough arguments (to the extent they acknowledge contrary arguments existing), and going over all the prejudices that make them believe they're arguing with bad people.
    "Dodge tough questions" types the poster with people on ignore who he couldn't handle the tough questions of.

  8. #4308
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    1> Yes.
    2> Memory retention isn't the same thing, anyway.



    You're projecting, a lot. To push a religiofascist attack on women.
    Memory retention is a bug fucking part of being self aware and conscience. People say death is no different than before when you were born or became self aware cuz you can't even remember what it was like, it's just a big void.

    And no I'm pushing what I believe is morally right to a bunch of social degenerates who disguise themselves as good people.

  9. #4309
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Saving the lives of fucking babies is immoral? I feel bad for you guys, I truly do since you've been completely misguided by your parents or w/e college you went to.
    The only arguments for fetal personhood are fundamentally and incontrovertibly religious in nature. There's no basis for that argument in secular space, and there's no grounds for forcing your religious views upon non-believers.

    Fetal personhood isn't even relevant, since bodily autonomy always takes precedence. Can you be forced to donate blood to save a life? No. Why? Because bodily autonomy trumps right to life. Always. Unless you've got a religion-based antagonism that pushes you to harm women.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Memory retention is a bug fucking part of being self aware and conscience.
    Not even a little bit. People with amnesia or memory retention issues like Alzheimer's don't suddenly become less conscious, sentient people. You have no idea what you're talking about.

    And no I'm pushing what I believe is morally right to a bunch of social degenerates who disguise themselves as good people.
    What you think is "morally right" is subjugating and harming women. That's the problem.


  10. #4310
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    You remember anything before you were 4 years old? Having consciousness as a rule is another bullship cope to self justify killing your baby.

    That's all I ever read from you guys.

    Oh a fetus isn't a baby. They have no consciousness. They're not a human being. Blah blah blah.

    These are lies you tell yourselves so you can bare looking at yourselves in the mirror after killing your son or daughter and not seeing a sick twisted monster staring back at you
    Do I remember being younger than 4 years old? Actually yes, I do and even if I didn't, it would be irrelevant to this as I had developed a consciousness before then. And before that formed, it is no more murder then if I deal with a foot infection as that fetus is nothing but a vaginal infection before that consciousness forms.

    You are the one lying to yourself here. Aborting a fetus with no consciousness is no more murder than when my brain dead sister was unplugged off life support last year. If the consciousness isn't there, then you aren't there, then it isn't murder.

    Sorry, but both the physical and metaphysical views say you are wrong.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  11. #4311
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    No you guys are about baby murder justified because you made shitty decisions one night at the bar.
    Ah yes, every woman who has ever pursued an abortion is just a slut and a harlot. Not because they were raped. Not because of health complications that risk their lives. Not because they find out that the developing fetus will have serious health complications and not survive for long after fully developing. Not because their birth control failed and they are in absolutely no position to provide for and raise a child.

    They're all just sluts. All of 'em.

    Your misogyny is showing.

  12. #4312
    Quote Originally Posted by unfilteredJW View Post
    Project harder.
    You can say what you want, idc. You all know it's wrong.

    But again, if anyone could take the easy way out of anything, poverty, sickness, loneliness, hunger they'd do it.

    In this case they apply to Parenthood because of the huge responsibility it takes despite what their doing is completely evil and unatural. But when you've been conditioned to think that's it's you "human right" then I can't partially blame you.

    I can only fully blame you if you begin to think for yourself and still end up with the same conclusion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Ah yes, every woman who has ever pursued an abortion is just a slut and a harlot. Not because they were raped. Not because of health complications that risk their lives. Not because they find out that the developing fetus will have serious health complications and not survive for long after fully developing. Not because their birth control failed and they are in absolutely no position to provide for and raise a child.

    They're all just sluts. All of 'em.

    Your misogyny is showing.
    I literally said that if it's rape or health reasons the they should have that option.

    And we all know that birth control is not 100% so you're still taking a gamble which you should be ready to own up to if it goes south.

  13. #4313
    I don't even care if it's a baby or not. If something can't live without help and no one wants to help it, it can die and I won't be mad.

    You can't force me to give blood to someone just because they're dying and in need. You shouldn't be able to force a woman to carry a baby to term if she doesn't want to. Especially if you're not also willing to take up the burden after the fact, since she'd otherwise be capable of freeing herself from said burden.

    It's not like we're hurting for more people to where we need to force people to carry to term. WE have the technology to spare undesired children from that existence while also allowing people to avoid unintended consequences.

    What I don't understand is why all these people seem to want to force such a meager existence onto a kid while also making adults hate their own life? What kind of "good" is that?

    "But maybe the kid will become the next Mozart!" K. Just as likely for the very NEXT kid in line that didn't get aborted to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    And we all know that birth control is not 100% so you're still taking a gamble which you should be ready to own up to if it goes south.
    Nah. Why do that when we have the means of not having to own up to it without any major harm being done? Not every human (or, in this case, would-be human) is a gift from god.

    I say this as the husband of a wife who is now pregnant. WE'RE ACTUALLY HAPPY ABOUT IT AND WANT THE CHILD. Stop creating broken homes with parents and children suffering because no one was excited.
    Last edited by BeepBoo; 2022-09-13 at 05:54 PM.

  14. #4314
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    I literally said that if it's rape or health reasons the they should have that option.
    Which, again, is implicitly a confession that even you don't actually believe the fetus is a human being.


  15. #4315
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The only arguments for fetal personhood are fundamentally and incontrovertibly religious in nature. There's no basis for that argument in secular space, and there's no grounds for forcing your religious views upon non-believers.

    Fetal personhood isn't even relevant, since bodily autonomy always takes precedence. Can you be forced to donate blood to save a life? No. Why? Because bodily autonomy trumps right to life. Always. Unless you've got a religion-based antagonism that pushes you to harm women.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Not even a little bit. People with amnesia or memory retention issues like Alzheimer's don't suddenly become less conscious, sentient people. You have no idea what you're talking about.



    What you think is "morally right" is subjugating and harming women. That's the problem.
    A fetus is just the earliest point of development for a human being. Find a case where someone's fetus turned into a fucking carrot and then I'll change my mind. Until then a fetus is just as human as you are.

    Hilarious how you have to use a freaking disease to justify your BS

    Oh I'm harming women, what are you doing to unborn children, you ain't putting them on time out that's for sure.

    The only thing that's harmed those women was their shitty parents and shitty teachers they had growing up.

  16. #4316
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    A fetus is just the earliest point of development for a human being. Find a case where someone's fetus turned into a fucking carrot and then I'll change my mind. Until then a fetus is just as human as you are.

    Hilarious how you have to use a freaking disease to justify your BS

    Oh I'm harming women, what are you doing to unborn children, you ain't putting them on time out that's for sure.

    The only thing that's harmed those women was their shitty parents and shitty teachers they had growing up.
    A fetus with no consciousness is like an adult who is a vegetable on life support, unplugging either of them is not murder as there was no person there to kill.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  17. #4317
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Which, again, is implicitly a confession that even you don't actually believe the fetus is a human being.
    It's an extreme situation that by definition shouldn't happen often. It is what it is. We're humans and are capable of seeing that. But we all know that terminating perfectly healthy pregnancies and consented conceptions to be evil as fuck. The problem is that you've been conditioned to think otherwise.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    A fetus with no consciousness is like an adult who is a vegetable on life support, unplugging either of them is not murder as there was no person there to kill.
    A fetus is not in a fucking coma because of a car accident... A fetus hasn't developed enough yet to have that conscience. The person in a coma did have that conscience but was unfortunate to have been injured.

    It's not the same thing.

  18. #4318
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    And we all know that birth control is not 100% so you're still taking a gamble which you should be ready to own up to if it goes south.
    Again, this is a fairly misogynistic position to take.

  19. #4319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    A fetus is just the earliest point of development for a human being.
    Even that's not true. You're ignoring the zygote stage. And that gametes themselves are "human". And that "human being" isn't even a medical term in the first place.

    Find a case where someone's fetus turned into a fucking carrot and then I'll change my mind. Until then a fetus is just as human as you are.
    And as "human" as my toenails. Are my toenails each a person?

    Hilarious how you have to use a freaking disease to justify your BS
    You're the one who made the absolutely ridiculous assertion that memory retention was necessary for personhood.

    Oh I'm harming women, what are you doing to unborn children, you ain't putting them on time out that's for sure.
    They're not people. Maybe the problem is you don't see women as people, either?


  20. #4320
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    A fetus is not in a fucking coma because of a car accident... A fetus hasn't developed enough yet to have that conscience. The person in a coma did have that conscience but was unfortunate to have been injured.

    It's not the same thing.
    I didn't say in a coma, I said a vegetable, as in there is no consciousness there which is the part that matters. The fetus hasn't developed enough to have that consciousness yet which even you just admit here.

    No consciousness means no person, end of story. Getting rid of a lump of cells that has no consciousness is not murder. And if you are going by potential, then you are saying that it shouldn't be legal to get rid of any other infection, vaginal or otherwise because there is a chance it could mutate into something that could potentially have that consciousness as well or, again, you just made the skin off my ass as sacred as your kids because it could theoretically become life as well.

    We aren't dealing in what is potentially there, we are dealing with what is ACTUALLY there, and no consciousness means no person which means no murder.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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