1. #4541
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Give it time...

    All good things take time. The civil rights movement, gay marriage, all those great things didn't happen over night. Eventually abortion will be outlawed and many lives will be saved. Hopefully it'll push people to be more responsible when I comes to sex and for parents to properly educate their kids instead of leaving it all for school.
    I know both don't know this, and will never understand why, but we have to try. Anti-abortion is an anti-civil rights movement. You'll notice the same people advocating for civil rights and gay marriage are the same people advocating for pro abortion.

    Entire wings of library's exist to point out how wrong your entire statement is above, btw.

  2. #4542
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    I know it might be a bit weird since most ring wingers are religious and are motivated by their religious veiws, but not me. Im agnostic, and I don't need religion to have a good moral compass, which is what this is all about. The immorality about killing babies and finding justification by claiming the earliest stages of dev aren't human.
    A good moral compass, by forcing people to carry to term a pregnancy no matter the circumstance?

    Pretty sure those two are at ends with each other then.

  3. #4543
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    I know it might be a bit weird since most ring wingers are religious and are motivated by their religious veiws, but not me. Im agnostic, and I don't need religion to have a good moral compass, which is what this is all about. The immorality about killing babies and finding justification by claiming the earliest stages of dev aren't human.
    So what about when the health of the mother is at stake? For a fetus that would not survive regardless of taking to term?


    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    And btw, the republican party was the party that was against slavery, democrats we're for it.
    This is where we see you pushing points of view you were told to think rather than thinking for yourself. No need to continue responding.

  4. #4544
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I know both don't know this, and will never understand why, but we have to try. Anti-abortion is an anti-civil rights movement. You'll notice the same people advocating for civil rights and gay marriage are the same people advocating for pro abortion.

    Entire wings of library's exist to point out how wrong your entire statement is above, btw.
    Except that killing babies isn't a human right so it's stupid to compare that to gay and civil rights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    A good moral compass, by forcing people to carry to term a pregnancy no matter the circumstance?

    Pretty sure those two are at ends with each other then.
    No, there are exceptions for extreme circumstances. Rape and the life of the mother. otherwise no one is forcing anyone to get pregnant. sooooo...

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    So what about when the health of the mother is at stake? For a fetus that would not survive regardless of taking to term?



    This is where we see you pushing points of view you were told to think rather than thinking for yourself. No need to continue responding.
    ^^ refer up.

  5. #4545
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    I know it might be a bit weird since most ring wingers are religious and are motivated by their religious veiws, but not me. Im agnostic, and I don't need religion to have a good moral compass, which is what this is all about. The immorality about killing babies and finding justification by claiming the earliest stages of dev aren't human.

    And btw, the republican party was the party that was against slavery, democrats we're for it.

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    Lol totally against outlawing all of that. Just the unjust killing of babies you know. You don't want them then make sure you dot all your I and cross your t when having sex.

    Birth control, condoms, pulling out, morning after pill, spermacide, etc. You do all of that then it's practically guaranteed you won't face an unwanted pregnancy.

    And worst case scenario there's adoption.
    First, you have to prove they are babies to begin with. Babies are humans already born. Prove to me otherwise that a partially grown fetus is a baby. Terms do have meaning.

  6. #4546
    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    First, you have to prove they are babies to begin with. Babies are humans already born. Prove to me otherwise that a partially grown fetus is a baby. Terms do have meaning.
    Does a human fetus turn into a carrot after 9 months? Lol....

  7. #4547
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    No, there are exceptions for extreme circumstances. Rape and the life of the mother. otherwise no one is forcing anyone to get pregnant. sooooo...
    So then what angle are we going with here, that the people who can't afford babies should have to raise them anyway even if it means the child stands no chance, or that they should be put into adoption services that are already struggling to get children adopted?

  8. #4548
    Pro choice people think that lack of brain activity or w/e means a fetus isn't human.

    But a fetus is just a stage of dev of any human. Is a baby less human and undeserving of rights because they can't speak or walk like an adult can? Of course not.

    It's all about laziness and not wanting to own up the the consequences of your actions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    So then what angle are we going with here, that the people who can't afford babies should have to raise them anyway even if it means the child stands no chance, or that they should be put into adoption services that are already struggling to get children adopted?
    Um yeah exactly. Does there need to be adoption reform, yeah. Does that justify killing babies, lmao obviously not.

    And pretty extreme for you to assume a child stands no chance because of financial standing.

    I was raised by a single Hispanic mother and lived in a 10 by 10 studio for 6 months. Literally toilet and shower next to the bed.
    But she ain't no quiter and our lives improved over the years

    Amazing what hard work and dedication does.
    Last edited by Varx; 2022-09-27 at 06:30 PM.

  9. #4549
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Um yeah exactly. Does there need to be adoption reform, yeah. Does that justify killing babies, lmao obviously not.

    And pretty extreme for you to assume a child stands no chance because of financial standing.

    I was raised by a single mother and lived in a 10 by 10 studio. Literally toilet and shower next to the bed. Damn did I turn out good.
    And how, pray tell, is there supposed to be a adoption reform if the issue is that people don't want to adopt?

    Also, I put the statement "Even if" in there for a reason. It's not extreme, it's just a statement.


    Oh, and the "holier than thou" nonsense isn't actually bringing anything to the table. You spew out your "ideals" yet seem to have nothing to actually back them up beside vague ideas. So slandering the other side isn't earning you any real credits.

  10. #4550
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    And how, pray tell, is there supposed to be a adoption reform if the issue is that people don't want to adopt?

    Also, I put the statement "Even if" in there for a reason. It's not extreme, it's just a statement.


    Oh, and the "holier than thou" nonsense isn't actually bringing anything to the table. You spew out your "ideals" yet seem to have nothing to actually back them up beside vague ideas. So slandering the other side isn't earning you any real credits.



    Right but because there's a chance they might not make it is excuse to kill them?

    And there are many many people who want to adopt.

    Hetero couples that can't conceive. Gay couples, etc.

    The problem is the adoption process is long and difficult. Especially for the latter.

    But again just because the system isn't perfect doesn't justify killing unwanted babies. That type of thinking doesn't help out with revolutions or the rise of great civilizations

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post

    Oh, and the "holier than thou" nonsense isn't actually bringing anything to the table. You spew out your "ideals" yet seem to have nothing to actually back them up beside vague ideas. So slandering the other side isn't earning you any real credits.
    What are you talking about. I am giving back. I'm stating the obvious fact that a fetus is a human and has the right to live as anyone else because it's undeniably a human.

    Pro life arguments are really simple yet strong because it's the truth. Lefties have to bend over backwards and double think to justify abortion. That's why it seems like I'm not providing anything.
    Last edited by Varx; 2022-09-27 at 06:35 PM.

  11. #4551
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    I mean if you deny the right to have control of ones body over the right to life of others I hope you'd agree to, I don't know, everyone being compelled to be an organ donor regardless of personal or religious objections. Including donating organs they can survive without.

  12. #4552
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Right but because there's a chance they might not make it is excuse to kill them?

    And there are many many people who want to adopt.

    Hetero couples that can't conceive. Gay couples, etc.

    The problem is the adoption process is long and difficult. Especially for the latter.

    But again just because the system isn't perfect doesn't justify killing unwanted babies. That type of thinking doesn't help out with revolutions or the rise of great civilizations
    Calling it "killing them" is just an attempt to appeal to emotion in this kinda situation. More than enough people have already covered this topic though and since it seems like it falls on deaf ears, there's no point in me trying.

    And that isn't exactly falling to "many" when you have to point towards people who are in a minority (some of which are probably going to be next on the chopping block for the right wing).


    It's honestly slightly horrifying that you think this is a good situation to be in. So I'll just leave you with a snippet from Penny-Arcade that sums it up better, since you seem to think this is about "morals" and not religion.

    I'm shocked; Brenna is not shocked. I grew up in church, in the eighties, and it took them forty years to do it but they did exactly what they said they were going to do. It might be a good idea to listen to them, you know, now, and hear what they want to do next, so we don't go to bed one night and wake up fifty fucking years ago. Again.
    https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2022/06/27/calgon

    From under the comic.

  13. #4553
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Pro life arguments are really simple yet strong because it's the truth. Lefties have to bend over backwards and double think to justify abortion. That's why it seems like I'm not providing anything.
    Then should people with healthy organs and blood be forced to donate them to people in need? If Yes, then your position is consistent but still abhorrent.

    If no, your stance is hypocritical and/or just based on appeals to emotion.

  14. #4554
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I mean if you deny the right to have control of ones body over the right to life of others I hope you'd agree to, I don't know, everyone being compelled to be an organ donor regardless of personal or religious objections. Including donating organs they can survive without.
    This argument is insane....

    Pregnancy is completely natural between to individuals who have concented to have sex. Organ donation isn't remotely the same phenomenon.

    This is what I'm talking about bending over backwards to create completely insane arguments from the left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Calling it "killing them" is just an attempt to appeal to emotion in this kinda situation. More than enough people have already covered this topic though and since it seems like it falls on deaf ears, there's no point in me trying.

    And that isn't exactly falling to "many" when you have to point towards people who are in a minority (some of which are probably going to be next on the chopping block for the right wing).


    It's honestly slightly horrifying that you think this is a good situation to be in. So I'll just leave you with a snippet from Penny-Arcade that sums it up better, since you seem to think this is about "morals" and not religion.


    https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2022/06/27/calgon

    From under the comic.
    What else would you call ending the life of a living being if not "killing".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyonai View Post
    Then should people with healthy organs and blood be forced to donate them to people in need? If Yes, then your position is consistent but still abhorrent.

    If no, your stance is hypocritical and/or just based on appeals to emotion.
    Please refer up.

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    All pro choice arguments are either completely reachy, like the organ donor one that is not even the same type of situation

    Or. Completely arbitrary, like claiming a fetus isn't human due to lack of brain activity. As if a fetus won't ever have brain activity.

    Ultimately they're just attempts to justify the horrible act of murder under the flimsy disguise of human rights.

  15. #4555
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    This argument is insane....

    Pregnancy is completely natural between to individuals who have concented to have sex. Organ donation isn't remotely the same phenomenon.

    This is what I'm talking about bending over backwards to create completely insane arguments from the left.
    Then you are failing at comprehension. You espouse morality and one that deals in absolutes so I counter it in deontology which is the most likely approximation to your presumed ethical calculation. Pregnancy requires for the mother to host the fetus without her direct consent and provide it with use of her body to the detriment of her own health. This is not something that is up for debate; it is a basic fact. The main argument against abortion does not even have to do with whether it is a baby or fetus; that is ultimately a secondary argument that calls more on legal concerns. It is that the right to control your own body is ABSOLUTE and thus the right of the pregnant person to control their body is greater than the right of the fetus to assistance for its survival. If we remove this right, if we stop considering it a moral good, the situation I presented that places the right of others to life by means of assistance that is to the detriment of the health of others, which is what pregnancy is, becomes a moral good and you should be accepting it. Or you know, you are a hypocrite.

  16. #4556
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    What else would you call ending the life of a living being if not "killing".
    Biology begs to differ.

    You keep claiming it has to do with just "brain activity" while you know fully well it's more than that, it's just easier for you to try to argue brain activity.

    Also the organ donor thing is pretty on point actually. It's more compelling too actually because organ donors would actually save a life unlike this abortion ban.

  17. #4557
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    What else would you call ending the life of a living being if not "killing".
    Well for one, I don't call it a "living being" if it can't survive on its own. Once a fetus is viable outside of a womb, then yeah, living being, do what you can to make sure they survive. Any point before that? No, it's basically just a parasite, and the life and well-being of the mother is paramount.

  18. #4558
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Then you are failing at comprehension. You espouse morality and one that deals in absolutes so I counter it in deontology which is the most likely approximation to your presumed ethical calculation. Pregnancy requires for the mother to host the fetus without her direct consent and provide it with use of her body to the detriment of her own health. This is not something that is up for debate; it is a basic fact. The main argument against abortion does not even have to do with whether it is a baby or fetus; that is ultimately a secondary argument that calls more on legal concerns. It is that the right to control your own body is ABSOLUTE and thus the right of the pregnant person to control their body is greater than the right of the fetus to assistance for its survival. If we remove this right, if we stop considering it a moral good, the situation I presented that places the right of others to life by means of assistance that is to the detriment of the health of others, which is what pregnancy is, becomes a moral good and you should be accepting it. Or you know, you are a hypocrite.

    Haha!!! Without her direct consent??? Unless you're raped. Literally the act of sex is "CONSENT" to become pregnant.

    Wow..

  19. #4559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    This argument is insane....

    Pregnancy is completely natural between to individuals who have concented to have sex. Organ donation isn't remotely the same phenomenon.

    This is what I'm talking about bending over backwards to create completely insane arguments from the left.
    It's exactly the same argument. In both situations it's suspending the bodily autonomy of Individual A and giving it to Individual B, disallowing Individual A to have a say in what can and can't be done with their own body in regards to the life support of another.

    I'm hardly bending over backwards, kid. Bending over backwards is hand wringing about things being 'natural' as if that even matters to us anymore with how much our lives revolve around man-made conveniences to function, let alone thrive, as a species.

  20. #4560
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Biology begs to differ.

    You keep claiming it has to do with just "brain activity" while you know fully well it's more than that, it's just easier for you to try to argue brain activity.

    Also the organ donor thing is pretty on point actually. It's more compelling too actually because organ donors would actually save a life unlike this abortion ban.
    I'm pretty sure biology would tell you that terminating a pregnancy is fatal to the fetus.... Which would be killing.

    And that's the argument that lefties use. Maybe also heart beat idk. The point is that somehow being at a very early point in human dev somehow means you aren't human and don't deserve rights.

    And no the organ donor argument is completely BS. Organ donation is not a normal act by nature. It's all by the donor's good will.

    Pregnancy on the other hand is a part of life that's been bastardized by the left as a sort of inconvenience or disease.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    Jeeze, dude literally just came off of a ban and immediately proceeds to bury himself again.
    No I'm keeping it clean. Nice that you remember me though.

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