1. #4961
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    So it's always just because? Never legitimate reasons? What if Bob reaching for his ar15.
    Then that's okay. Context matters.

    But there is no justifiable context outside of pregnancy viability or rape to terminate a preggy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mekh View Post
    To you? No.

    To everyone else here, showing them you are wholly unqualified to speak on complex topics, because there is no Laude in your Cum and I doubt you are graduate of anything. It's a shame you still have a vote though.
    Dude the only thing you've succeeded in is showing your lack of perceiving context clues and your ability to reach to Pluto in an argument.

  2. #4962
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Then that's okay. Context matters.

    But there is no context outside of pregnancy viability or rape to terminate a preggy.
    So the life of the mother is not a reason for you. Your misogyny is showing (again).

  3. #4963
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Then that's okay. Context matters.

    But there is no context outside of pregnancy viability or rape to terminate a preggy.
    Wait, you're saying rape is a reason to permit abortion?


  4. #4964
    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    So the life of the mother is not a reason for you. Your misogyny is showing (again).
    Ffs, I literally said pregnancy viability. You even quoted it.

  5. #4965
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Dude the only thing you've succeeded in is showing your lack of perceiving context clues.
    Oh, I am perfectly aware of the context. Which makes all these unforced errors even weirder, like starting to talk about the "purpose of cancer" or saying shit like "it's programmed". It's inept. I'm trying to figure out the source though. Is it because you don't know the biology any better? Is it because you are religious after all? I'm dying to know, where your particular brand of stupid is coming from.
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  6. #4966
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Wait, you're saying rape is a reason to permit abortion?
    I mean I've stated this time and time again as an exception, and you know this so I dunno why you acting all Pikachu face.

  7. #4967
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Na that's the governments job.

    Im sure if both sides put their heads in the game it could be figured out. Starting with proper sex ed and accessibility to proper contraceptives
    Hey listen, if conservatives are willing to pass reform to give women free contraceptives and improve sexual education in schools, as well sweeping reforms that give financial support for infants and children in low income households, I might reconsider this whole pro-choice thing.

    But we know conservatives don't care about life. They only care about controlling women's bodies. So none of that is going to happen, and I'll continue to support pro-choice efforts.
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  8. #4968
    Quote Originally Posted by Mekh View Post
    Oh, I am perfectly aware of the context. Which makes all these unforced errors even weirder, like starting to talk about the "purpose of cancer" or saying shit like "it's programmed". It's inept. I'm trying to figure out the source though. Is it because you don't know the biology any better? Is it because you are religious after all? I'm dying to know, where your particular brand of stupid is coming from.
    Okay.

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  9. #4969
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Ffs, I literally said pregnancy viability. You even quoted it.
    Ah, that may be a language problem. I thought pregnancy viability is about the viability of the fetus/baby - so if the baby is 100% healthy but the mother has a significant health risk giving birth, its okay for you?
    Last edited by Pannonian; 2022-11-10 at 07:53 PM.

  10. #4970
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    I mean I've stated this time and time again as an exception, and you know this so I dunno why you acting all Pikachu face.
    It's more that it's a direct admission that you don't actually believe the fetus is a human being, at all, and all that nonsense is just a cover for your animus against women.

    Can I kill a 12 year old kid because his dad raped his mom? Or were you admitting that fetuses aren't actually human persons at the stages of development where abortion is an option? Pick A or B, because there is no C.


  11. #4971
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Hey listen, if conservatives are willing to pass reform to give women free contraceptives and improve sexual education in schools, as well sweeping reforms that give financial support for infants and children in low income households, I might reconsider this whole pro-choice thing.

    But we know conservatives don't care about life. They only care about controlling women's bodies. So none of that is going to happen, and I'll continue to support pro-choice efforts.
    Thank you!!!

    Look I know many politicians are corrupt but this ain't handmaid's tale. There ain't no secret agenda to oppress women. And if there was I ain't for it. Despite what some here think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Ah, that me be a language problem. I thought pregnancy viability is about the viability of the fetus/baby - so if the baby is 100% healthy but the mother has a significant health risk giving birth, its okay for you?
    .... Yes, as terrible as that is. Yes. But that's assuming all possibilities to preserve both lives have been exhausted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It's more that it's a direct admission that you don't actually believe the fetus is a human being, at all, and all that nonsense is just a cover for your animus against women.

    Can I kill a 12 year old kid because his dad raped his mom? Or were you admitting that fetuses aren't actually human persons at the stages of development where abortion is an option? Pick A or B, because there is no C.
    I know this is messy ground and I get what you're coming from. But rape is an extreme.

    Now if a raped woman waits for months to finally agree to an abortion then I'd say no. But. As soon as possible then yes.

    But hey extremes are extremes.

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  12. #4972
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    I know this is messy ground and I get what you're coming from. But rape is an extreme.

    Now if a raped woman waits for months to finally agree to an abortion then I'd say no. But. As soon as possible then yes.

    But hey extremes are extremes.
    It's actually very clear ground. What you're running into is that your stated premises, such as "life begins at conception and the fetus is a human being from that point on", don't hold up to the pressure of real circumstances, because it would require you to deny abortion rights to, say, a 12-year old girl who was repeatedly raped by her own father and was now pregnant. So you want to make an exception for cases like that.

    What you should be doing is recognizing that the problem is your base premise. Even you don't actually believe it, because if you did, you'd see that fetus as just as "human" as the 12-year old. Clearly, you can tell the difference, and don't consider them the same thing. But you want us to argue with that presumption.

    Well, no. Why would we entertain ideas even you know are bullshit?

    And once we've knocked that premise out, you don't really have any basis for opposing abortion rights. Your entire argument was predicated upon a false statement you don't even believe, by your own admission. Even you know you're wrong, when push comes to shove at these "extreme" positions (not that extreme).

    If you have to make exceptions to your base premises in "extreme" situations, your base premise does not hold up.


  13. #4973
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It's actually very clear ground. What you're running into is that your stated premises, such as "life begins at conception and the fetus is a human being from that point on", don't hold up to the pressure of real circumstances, because it would require you to deny abortion rights to, say, a 12-year old girl who was repeatedly raped by her own father and was now pregnant. So you want to make an exception for cases like that.

    What you should be doing is recognizing that the problem is your base premise. Even you don't actually believe it, because if you did, you'd see that fetus as just as "human" as the 12-year old. Clearly, you can tell the difference, and don't consider them the same thing. But you want us to argue with that presumption.

    Well, no. Why would we entertain ideas even you know are bullshit?

    And once we've knocked that premise out, you don't really have any basis for opposing abortion rights. Your entire argument was predicated upon a false statement you don't even believe, by your own admission. Even you know you're wrong, when push comes to shove at these "extreme" positions (not that extreme).

    If you have to make exceptions to your base premises in "extreme" situations, your base premise does not hold up.
    Of course it does...

    There are always exceptions for everything. But exceptions don't make the rule, they define them...

    That's why an extreme is what it is.

    And against it has to been within reasonable time..

    I wouldn't support a rape victim who waited 6 months to get an abortion after the fact.

  14. #4974
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Of course it does...

    There are always exceptions for everything. But exceptions don't make the rule, they define them...

    That's why an extreme is what it is.
    That's not how logic works. If there's an exception to a premise, that premise is flawed. In this case, you've admitted explicitly that you agree that fetuses are not full human beings and that they can be aborted, the only question is the specific circumstances, and you're not making any arguments on why they should be denied.


  15. #4975
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That's not how logic works. If there's an exception to a premise, that premise is flawed. In this case, you've admitted explicitly that you agree that fetuses are not full human beings and that they can be aborted, the only question is the specific circumstances, and you're not making any arguments on why they should be denied.
    Society ain't black and white. We don't live in a perfect logical vacuum. We're not robots.

    So yes, society is flawed. But that's part of human nature. So yeah, exceptions are always going to exist but it's not prudent to let them make the rules.
    Last edited by Varx; 2022-11-10 at 08:09 PM.

  16. #4976
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Society ain't black and white. We don't live in a perfect vacuum.
    It's not about "black and white". It's about valid or invalid. It's that if you argue for Maxim A, and it has exceptions B and C, then you're admitting Maxim A does not hold up to scrutiny and is not actually true. Why would we entertain an argument even you admit doesn't actually function?
    You can't have something that's valid except for all the times where it isn't; that's just invalid. Literally all you need to prove is one case that doesn't fit and you invalidate the maxim.


  17. #4977
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It's not about "black and white". It's about valid or invalid. It's that if you argue for Maxim A, and it has exceptions B and C, then you're admitting Maxim A does not hold up to scrutiny and is not actually true. Why would we entertain an argument even you admit doesn't actually function?
    You can't have something that's valid except for all the times where it isn't; that's just invalid. Literally all you need to prove is one case that doesn't fit and you invalidate the maxim.
    But dude we're not robots.

    We don't live as dictated by a program code. life is chaotic, which is why we have society, to best order that chaos.

    But given human nature it's not going to be perfect.

    Rape is part of that chaos with consequences that are very difficulty to find a remedy for.

    If we had robotic linear way of thinking then it wouldn't be an issue, but we don't.

  18. #4978
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    But dude we're not robots.

    We don't live as dictated by a program code. life is chaotic, which is why we have society, to best order that chaos.

    But given human nature it's not going to be perfect.

    Rape is part of that chaos with consequences that are very difficulty to find a remedy for.

    If we had robotic linear way of thinking then it wouldn't be an issue, but we don't.
    Lots of words to say "I arbitrarily make shit up as I go along, which is also why I decided women are incubators."
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  19. #4979
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Not at the moment but working on it with the Mrs after two consecutive miscarriages, so I have a warped idea of it yes...

    And let me tell you the Mrs is as pro life as you can get after experiencing something so horrific.

    But that's how life is. You learn via experiences, the shittiest being the best teachers if all.

    But I know therapy ain't the best thing In the world but it is better than murder.
    Someone who has a wife and a stable job who wants a family is pro-life? And is trying to force others to give birth when they don't want to or don't have the means to support it? QUE SHOQUE!

    Anyway, if you're pro-life, have at it brother. You don't have to get an abortion and neither does your wife! Stay out of other people's lives, whose circumstances you don't know and obviously can't sympathize with.
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  20. #4980
    Quote Originally Posted by Mekh View Post
    Lots of words to say "I arbitrarily make shit up as I go along, which is also why I decided women are incubators."
    All of society is based off of arbitration. If not we'd all be wild animals killing each other to survive. You realize this right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Someone who has a wife and a stable job who wants a family is pro-life? And is trying to force others to give birth when they don't want to or don't have the means to support it? QUE SHOQUE!

    Anyway, if you're pro-life, have at it brother. You don't have to get an abortion and neither does your wife! Stay out of other people's lives, whose circumstances you don't know and obviously can't sympathize with.
    Let me ask you this.

    If we had the best possible system for adoption and welfare for single or unexpected mothers imaginable. Would you be pro life?

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