1. #4981
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    All of society is based off of arbitration. If not we'd all be wild animals killing each other to survive.
    I thought we'd be robots? Programmed like cancer?
    “There you stand, the good man doing nothing. And while evil triumphs, and your rigid pacifism crumbles to blood stained dust, the only victory afforded to you is that you stuck true to your guns.”

  2. #4982
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Thank you!!!

    Look I know many politicians are corrupt but this ain't handmaid's tale. There ain't no secret agenda to oppress women. And if there was I ain't for it. Despite what some here think.
    I can respect that you're not for Gilead, but there are many Republicans on the record stating they want to implement measures and policy that would effectively make this Handmaid's Tale. And voting for them is a support for such measures.

    Women got to be people approximately 100 years ago in the USA. Anyone who denies that there are any lingering parts of the culture that still want to return to the "old ways" just demonstrates wild ignorance.
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
    2023: "What's with all these massively successful games with ugly (realistic) women? How could this have happened?!"

  3. #4983
    Quote Originally Posted by Mekh View Post
    I thought we'd be robots? Programmed like cancer?
    I said we're not robots.... But society tries it's best to order human chaos....

    Your lack of reading comprehension continues to show.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    I can respect that you're not for Gilead, but there are many Republicans on the record stating they want to implement measures and policy that would effectively make this Handmaid's Tale. And voting for them is a support for such measures.

    Women got to be people approximately 100 years ago in the USA. Anyone who denies that there are any lingering parts of the culture that still want to return to the "old ways" just demonstrates wild ignorance.
    Well you wouldn't catch me on that train. But as I said this system ain't perfect. I'm just voicing my opinions.

  4. #4984
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Let me ask you this.

    If we had the best possible system for adoption and welfare for single or unexpected mothers imaginable. Would you be pro life?
    I probably wouldn't be pro-life at my core, as I still believe in people's right to bodily autonomy. For instance, you can't be forced to give up a liver for someone dying of liver disease. Why should a womb be forced to carry a fetus to term?

    But I would be much more sympathetic and much less opposed to pro-life if the pro-lifers demonstrated that they actually cared about the life they were bringing into this world through force.

    But we both know that isn't true. And it never will be. The pro-life movement in the USA has its roots in controlling women and their bodies, and will never actually be about life. So why is this hypothetical an important question?
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
    2023: "What's with all these massively successful games with ugly (realistic) women? How could this have happened?!"

  5. #4985
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    I probably wouldn't be pro-life
    Reminder that this is a strawman term that means absolutely nothing, and often has a contradictory meaning.

    It's about bodily autonomy. Pure and simple.

  6. #4986
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Your lack of reading comprehension continues to show.
    Fun coming from someone who thinks "arbitrary" means things have been "arbitrated". Is English like your second language or something? Your Hispanic mom no teach you very good?
    “There you stand, the good man doing nothing. And while evil triumphs, and your rigid pacifism crumbles to blood stained dust, the only victory afforded to you is that you stuck true to your guns.”

  7. #4987
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It's not about "black and white". It's about valid or invalid. It's that if you argue for Maxim A, and it has exceptions B and C, then you're admitting Maxim A does not hold up to scrutiny and is not actually true. Why would we entertain an argument even you admit doesn't actually function?
    You can't have something that's valid except for all the times where it isn't; that's just invalid. Literally all you need to prove is one case that doesn't fit and you invalidate the maxim.
    Let's look at freedom of speech and right to privacy.

    Both are absolute, but both have exceptions.

    For speech, you can't say things like "fire" or "bomb" in a crowded space. But you apply that exception to everyday life then you have rampant censorship of speech.

    For the 4th amendment, the government. Isn't allow to walk into your home with our a warrant. An exception would be in hot pursuit of a criminal who breaks into a home.

    Apply that exception to everyday life then you can imagine how that would impact our liberty from the government.


    Abortion is a perfect example to apply the exception as the rule.

    Now we have perfectly viable pregnancies from sexually consenting mothers who are more than capable of raising the child.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    I probably wouldn't be pro-life at my core, as I still believe in people's right to bodily autonomy. For instance, you can't be forced to give up a liver for someone dying of liver disease. Why should a womb be forced to carry a fetus to term?

    But I would be much more sympathetic and much less opposed to pro-life if the pro-lifers demonstrated that they actually cared about the life they were bringing into this world through force.

    But we both know that isn't true. And it never will be. The pro-life movement in the USA has its roots in controlling women and their bodies, and will never actually be about life. So why is this hypothetical an important question?
    Because many pro choicers wouldn't think twice to kill a healthy baby if they had all the resources I'm the world just because they want to.

    How is that any different that cold blood murder?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Reminder that this is a strawman term that means absolutely nothing, and often has a contradictory meaning.

    It's about bodily autonomy. Pure and simple.
    Like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mekh View Post
    Fun coming from someone who thinks "arbitrary" means things have been "arbitrated". Is English like your second language or something? Your Hispanic mom no teach you very good?
    Being arbitrated is to have a dispute settled.

    Who settling most disputes in the world. Courts created by arbitrary human laws or skynet?

  8. #4988
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Because many pro choicers wouldn't think twice to kill a healthy baby.
    Healthy babies get delivered. Fetuses get aborted. You want to vote in this country, learn the language.
    “There you stand, the good man doing nothing. And while evil triumphs, and your rigid pacifism crumbles to blood stained dust, the only victory afforded to you is that you stuck true to your guns.”

  9. #4989
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Because many pro choicers wouldn't think twice to kill a healthy baby if they had all the resources I'm the world just because they want to.
    This is a frankly terrible strawman, like, hilariously so.

  10. #4990
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Being arbitrated is to have a despute settled.

    Who settling disputing most disputes in the world. Courts created by arbitrary human laws or skynet?
    Yes. And what you are rambling here is not arbitrated, it's arbitrary.

    "Hurr-durr! Killing babies is EvIl, unless the mother was raped, then it's FiNe. Hurr-durr."

    Perfectly arbitrary. One baby is worth less than the other, because you feel so.
    “There you stand, the good man doing nothing. And while evil triumphs, and your rigid pacifism crumbles to blood stained dust, the only victory afforded to you is that you stuck true to your guns.”

  11. #4991
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    This is a frankly terrible strawman, like, hilariously so.
    Bullshit...

    You just said it's all about bodily autonomy and nothing else.

  12. #4992
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Bullshit...

    You just said it's all about bodily autonomy and nothing else.
    A baby is born, so there is no question of bodily autonomy at play here. Thanks for playing, we'll see you on the show next week.

  13. #4993
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Let me ask you this.

    If we had the best possible system for adoption and welfare for single or unexpected mothers imaginable. Would you be pro life?
    If we also had artificial wombs and we could transplant the gamete/fetus with minimum intrusion and harm to the person giving it up with guaranteed abortion at delivery and no costs whatsoever for the original host?
    Potentially.
    - Lars

  14. #4994
    Quote Originally Posted by Mekh View Post
    Yes. And what you are rambling here is not arbitrated, it's arbitrary.

    "Hurr-durr! Killing babies is EvIl, unless the mother was raped, then it's FiNe. Hurr-durr."

    Perfectly arbitrary. One baby is worth less than the other, because you feel so.
    Jesus Christ it's like you're being willfully obtuse.

    This is why I said that life ain't perfect, that it ain't black and white. Not that one baby is worth more than the other. It's just that rape is an extreme with little wiggle.room. but it's an exception non the less, shouldn't be the rule.

  15. #4995
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Jesus Christ it's like you're being willfully obtuse.

    This is why I said that life ain't perfect, that it ain't black and white. Not that one baby is worth more than the other. It's just that rape is an extreme with little wiggle.room. but it's an exception non the less, shouldn't be the rule.
    "Why should the baby be punished for what happened to the mother?"

    Would be the logically consistent argument if you actually believed what you were saying.

  16. #4996
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    A baby is born, so there is no question of bodily autonomy at play here. Thanks for playing, we'll see you on the show next week.
    You could predict a pregnancy would be nice and healthy even early on while also having the means to care for them.

    But "muh autonomy"

    So nice try.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    "Why should the baby be punished for what happened to the mother?"

    Would be the logically consistent argument if you actually believed what you were saying.
    I told you already I'm not a raging mysogonist. If men could get pregnant too then I'd still be the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    If we also had artificial wombs and we could transplant the gamete/fetus with minimum intrusion and harm to the person giving it up with guaranteed abortion at delivery and no costs whatsoever for the original host?
    Potentially.
    Wouldn't that be perfect

  17. #4997
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    You could predict a pregnancy would be nice and healthy even early on while also having the means to care for them.
    ...what? You said a baby, as in like, out of the womb. Unless you're using personal definitions for words that we can't possibly know since we can't read your mind.

    Also, lots of pregnancies start out healthy and safe and unexpected complications crop up along the way. If you're being logically consistent with your "abortion is murder" argument, then the health of the mother is an acceptable risk to avoid committing murder. Since by forcing her to carry the pregnancy won't guarantee death, but an abortion "will".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    I told you already I'm not a raging mysogonist. If men could get pregnant too then I'd still be the same.
    This is pathetic evasion of the fact that you don't even have an internally consistent and logical position.

  18. #4998
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Jesus Christ it's like you're being willfully obtuse.
    Don't get angry at us for pointing out your arbitration, lol.
    “There you stand, the good man doing nothing. And while evil triumphs, and your rigid pacifism crumbles to blood stained dust, the only victory afforded to you is that you stuck true to your guns.”

  19. #4999
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    ...what? You said a baby, as in like, out of the womb. Unless you're using personal definitions for words that we can't possibly know since we can't read your mind.

    Also, lots of pregnancies start out healthy and safe and unexpected complications crop up along the way. If you're being logically consistent with your "abortion is murder" argument, then the health of the mother is an acceptable risk to avoid committing murder. Since by forcing her to carry the pregnancy won't guarantee death, but an abortion "will".

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    This is pathetic evasion of the fact that you don't even have an internally consistent and logical position.
    They already admitted that they put the birth of a healthy baby ahead of the life of the parent
    - Lars

  20. #5000
    I'll post here.

    BREAKING: Montana has officially rejected an anti-abortion ballot initiative, meaning abortion rights groups won all (6/6) of their ballot fights this year.

    I hope the people who voted to keep their choice in some of these states, turn around and vote someone who could possibly take it away federally.
    Democrats are the best! I will never ever question a Democrat again. I LOVE the Democrats!

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