1. #5061
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    I said I would be more open to the idea of it, and be less opposed. But I certainly wouldn't "Flip". I still hold that bodily autonomy is a much greater right than someone's right to life. If we start putting "preserving life" over "bodily autonomy" then your relatives could start claiming your spare organs for themselves when they need a kidney. Because of course, you've put preserving life as more important than your own bodily autonomy.

    I'm sure the right loves right to life more than bodily autonomy. Because most of them have never and will never be faced with a situation where their bodily autonomy has been or would be violated to protect someone else's life.
    That organ argument bis silly.

    Pregnancy is completely natural. Organ donation isn't, though amazing in practice.

    Donating for charity is amazing too but you don't have to be forced to do it.

  2. #5062
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    No I do. But saying no out of pure "right to bodily autonomy" is nuts.
    It's not. It's the same as people having bodily autonomy in every other regard, even when they're dead.

    You died and have perfectly good organs that can save lives? Too bad, unless you agreed to donate your organs they can't be touched.
    You have a rare blood type that could save thousands with occasional donations? Too bad, you cannot be compelled to donate blood no matter what the circumstances.

    Again, it's consistency, something you seem to struggle with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    And when I say that I mean pregnancy, idc how else you wanna fuck up your body, whether it'd be tattoos, piercings, drugs, have at you

    But with pregnancy you're no longer dealing with just your body
    You are dealing with just your own body. You're removing something unwanted from your body.

  3. #5063
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyonai View Post
    Well no one passing these laws is, and that's the reality we live in; enabling restrictions at all beyond 'is the baby viable? Then no abortion!' just leads to dipshits legislating that any and all abortion for any reason whatsoever is evil and has to be punished, or leaving laws so vaguely worded that medical personnel feel like they can't do their jobs without being fined, sued, or arrested.

    It really is an 'all or nothing' situation.
    Some are. Not all conservative are ibut bags.

  4. #5064
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Some are. Not all conservative are ibut bags.
    Who is? What states is this happening?

  5. #5065
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    It's not. It's the same as people having bodily autonomy in every other regard, even when they're dead.

    You died and have perfectly good organs that can save lives? Too bad, unless you agreed to donate your organs they can't be touched.
    You have a rare blood type that could save thousands with occasional donations? Too bad, you cannot be compelled to donate blood no matter what the circumstances.

    Again, it's consistency, something you seem to struggle with.



    You are dealing with just your own body. You're removing something unwanted from your body.
    See and that's where we differ and won't ever see eye to eye.

    You're convinced that a fetus isn't a human life and is just merely an inconvenience.And honestly I don't blame you for it. I blame democrats, the media, Hollywood, and quite frankly living in a privileged era.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Who is? What states is this happening?


    I dunno, man. I'm just saying not all conservatives are part of that insane hive mind.

  6. #5066
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    That organ argument bis silly.

    Pregnancy is completely natural. Organ donation isn't, though amazing in practice.

    Donating for charity is amazing too but you don't have to be forced to do it.
    It's not silly at all. After all, you are putting up your own right to bodily autonomy against someone else's right to life.

    Organ transplants are completely natural. One, because humans are part of the natural world, and two there has been evidence suggesting that organ transplants have existed for hundreds of years or more. On top of that, transplanting organs is an effective means of preserving failing life, meaning that nature has accepted it as a means of preserving life. If it wasn't natural, our bodies would reject other people's organs completely, and not just due to incorrect blood or tissue type.

    You want to hand wave it away because you don't like that I am correct. Aprox. 250,000 people in the Americas per year die from kidney failure. Everyone has an extra kidney. If we made kidney donations compulsory, we could save a lot of lives!


    But as I have correctly pointed out, this is not about preserving life. You don't give a shit about those living humans who die every year to kidney failure.

    It's about controlling women's bodies.
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  7. #5067
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    It's not silly at all. After all, you are putting up your own right to bodily autonomy against someone else's right to life.

    Organ transplants are completely natural. One, because humans are part of the natural world, and two there has been evidence suggesting that organ transplants have existed for hundreds of years or more. On top of that, transplanting organs is an effective means of preserving failing life, meaning that nature has accepted it as a means of preserving life. If it wasn't natural, our bodies would reject other people's organs completely, and not just due to incorrect blood or tissue type.

    You want to hand wave it away because you don't like that I am correct. Aprox. 250,000 people in the Americas per year die from kidney failure. Everyone has an extra kidney. If we made kidney donations compulsory, we could save a lot of lives!


    But as I have correctly pointed out, this is not about preserving life. You don't give a shit about those living humans who die every year to kidney failure.

    It's about controlling women's bodies.
    No they're not.

    Transplants are a human invention. There's nothing natural about it. nOt saying I'm against them, but it's not the same as pregnancy.

    And for me it's about giving the child a chance to control their body.

  8. #5068
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    You're convinced that a fetus isn't a human life and is just merely an inconvenience.
    Again, things I haven't said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    honestly I don't blame you for it. I blame democrats, the media, Hollywood, and quite frankly living in a privileged era.
    No thanks, hun, I'm perfectly happy to take full responsibility and agency for my own beliefs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    I dunno, man. I'm just saying not all conservatives are part of that insane hive mind.
    So is it happening or not? Because absent your showing us where it's happening, I'm inclined to believe you're making shit up.

  9. #5069
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    No they're not.

    Transplants are a human invention. There's nothing natural about it. nOt saying I'm against them, but it's not the same as pregnancy.

    And for me it's about giving the child a chance to control their body.
    Whether something is "natural" or not is entirely an invention of humans as well. The entire concept of "natural" is a concept humans have invented. If your body will accept someone else's blood and someone else's organs, it is natural.

    So we've established that you don't actually care about life. Why is it that you want to force women other than your wife to carry fetuses to term when they do not want to? Or is this a question I'm going to ask you for pages and you're going to continue to dodge? I'll take a non answer as you don't care about life.
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
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  10. #5070
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    And for me it's about giving the child a chance to control their body.
    So why doesn't the mother get a chance to control HER body?

    Is it punishment for having sex? Because I'm guessing it's punishment for having sex.

  11. #5071
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    So why doesn't the mother get a chance to control HER body?

    Is it punishment for having sex? Because I'm guessing it's punishment for having sex.
    Well that's how reproduction works unfortunately, I don't make it up.

  12. #5072
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Well that's how reproduction works unfortunately, I don't make it up.
    So yes, it is a punishment for having sex?

    Seeing as how birth control often fails, women are raped, etc. Most abortions are not about women getting abortions "for funsies". Nobody does that.
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
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  13. #5073
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Well that's how reproduction works unfortunately, I don't make it up.
    So yes, as punishment for having sex, a woman loses control of her bodily autonomy. Thank you for confirming that it is, in fact, about the misogyny.

    No further questions.

  14. #5074
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Just dropping by to remind you guys that a fetus is a human being with a right to life and not a carrot or a Mercedes Benz. No one has the right to murder and there are a plethora of alternatives to abortion. A non perfect system is better than a zero chance at life.

    Yes there are extreme exceptions such as rape, inviable pregnancy, or the life of the mother being in jeopardy. We're not savages without complex thought.

    Someone has to remind this echo chamber of what's right if your college prof won't.

    Untill next time! You're friendly neighborhood agnostic pro gay rights conservative.

    Just take a minute if that last sentence takes a bit to sink in.
    Just dropping by to remind this guy that nobody, no entity or organism has a right to use the body of another person or being for their continued existence. A fetus a right to life. This is a reminder that it does not have a right to use another person to sustain said life.

  15. #5075
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    So yes, as punishment for having sex, a woman loses control of her bodily autonomy. Thank you for confirming that it is, in fact, about the misogyny.

    No further questions.
    It's not It punishment. No one is forcing women to get preggy Like it is what it is. If men could get pregnant also I'd still be the same

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    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    Just dropping by to remind this guy that nobody, no entity or organism has a right to use the body of another person or being for their continued existence. A fetus a right to life. This is a reminder that it does not have a right to use another person to sustain said life.
    Eeer wrong.

    See you next time!

  16. #5076
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    It's not It punishment. No one is forcing women to get preggy Like it is what it is. If men could get pregnant also I'd still be the same

    - - - Updated - - -



    Eeer wrong.

    See you next time!
    So I have a right to use your organs, blood or other tissues regardless if you consent or not?

  17. #5077
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    It's not It punishment. No one is forcing women to get preggy Like it is what it is. If men could get pregnant also I'd still be the same
    A lot of people who seek abortions did not want to get pregnant. They had sex and contraception failed them. So what I'm seeing is no direct rejection of the idea that it's punishment, even if you do not view it as such, that is what it is.
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
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  18. #5078
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    That organ argument bis silly.

    Pregnancy is completely natural. Organ donation isn't, though amazing in practice.

    Donating for charity is amazing too but you don't have to be forced to do it.
    What's "natural" is such a silly thing to base morality on. "Naturally", contraception (hell even medicine in general) does not exist and women dying in childbirth is fairly common. That's hardly an argument for preferring that state of affairs to the current one.
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  19. #5079
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    A lot of people who seek abortions did not want to get pregnant. They had sex and contraception failed them. So what I'm seeing is no direct rejection of the idea that it's punishment, even if you do not view it as such, that is what it is.
    If you engage in sex you know that there's a chance for contraceptives to fail. So if ur not prepared for that then it's your fault not the baby's.

    No one is gonna feel bad for you because you lost your life savings in a casino

  20. #5080
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    So no out of spite to the government, despite having the best of everything and predicted to having a healthy pregnancy

    - - - Updated - - -



    No I do understand them, I just feel like "right to bodily autonomy doesn't apply to perfectly viable and consensual pregnancies.

    You wanna fuck up your body with drugs and w/e be by guest. But I don't see pregnancy like that.

    But I understand the adoption and financial inability arguments to a certain extent, even if I don't fully agree.

    So with that being said, it's just a matter of a difference in values. life being the correct one of a perfect civilized society.

    You have already said you are ok with murder in some cases. You DON'T have the moral high ground you think you do.
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