SCOTUS removes Roe V Wade

[Cthulhu 2020]

No they're not.

Transplants are a human invention. There's nothing natural about it. nOt saying I'm against them, but it's not the same as pregnancy.

And for me it's about giving the child a chance to control their body.

Whether something is "natural" or not is entirely an invention of humans as well. The entire concept of "natural" is a concept humans have invented. If your body will accept someone else's blood and someone else's organs, it is natural.

So we've established that you don't actually care about life. Why is it that you want to force women other than your wife to carry fetuses to term when they do not want to? Or is this a question I'm going to ask you for pages and you're going to continue to dodge? I'll take a non answer as you don't care about life.

[DarkTZeratul]

And for me it's about giving the child a chance to control their body.

So why doesn't the mother get a chance to control HER body?

Is it punishment for having sex? Because I'm guessing it's punishment for having sex.

[Varx]

So why doesn't the mother get a chance to control HER body?

Is it punishment for having sex? Because I'm guessing it's punishment for having sex.

Well that's how reproduction works unfortunately, I don't make it up.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Well that's how reproduction works unfortunately, I don't make it up.

So yes, it is a punishment for having sex?

Seeing as how birth control often fails, women are raped, etc. Most abortions are not about women getting abortions "for funsies". Nobody does that.

[DarkTZeratul]

Well that's how reproduction works unfortunately, I don't make it up.

So yes, as punishment for having sex, a woman loses control of her bodily autonomy. Thank you for confirming that it is, in fact, about the misogyny.

No further questions.

[gondrin]

Just dropping by to remind you guys that a fetus is a human being with a right to life and not a carrot or a Mercedes Benz. No one has the right to murder and there are a plethora of alternatives to abortion. A non perfect system is better than a zero chance at life.

Yes there are extreme exceptions such as rape, inviable pregnancy, or the life of the mother being in jeopardy. We're not savages without complex thought.

Someone has to remind this echo chamber of what's right if your college prof won't.

Untill next time! You're friendly neighborhood agnostic pro gay rights conservative.

Just take a minute if that last sentence takes a bit to sink in.

Just dropping by to remind this guy that nobody, no entity or organism has a right to use the body of another person or being for their continued existence. A fetus a right to life. This is a reminder that it does not have a right to use another person to sustain said life.

[Varx]

So yes, as punishment for having sex, a woman loses control of her bodily autonomy. Thank you for confirming that it is, in fact, about the misogyny.

No further questions.

It's not It punishment. No one is forcing women to get preggy Like it is what it is. If men could get pregnant also I'd still be the same

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Just dropping by to remind this guy that nobody, no entity or organism has a right to use the body of another person or being for their continued existence. A fetus a right to life. This is a reminder that it does not have a right to use another person to sustain said life.

Eeer wrong.

See you next time!

[gondrin]

It's not It punishment. No one is forcing women to get preggy Like it is what it is. If men could get pregnant also I'd still be the same

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Eeer wrong.

See you next time!

So I have a right to use your organs, blood or other tissues regardless if you consent or not?

[Cthulhu 2020]

It's not It punishment. No one is forcing women to get preggy Like it is what it is. If men could get pregnant also I'd still be the same

A lot of people who seek abortions did not want to get pregnant. They had sex and contraception failed them. So what I'm seeing is no direct rejection of the idea that it's punishment, even if you do not view it as such, that is what it is.

[Jastall]

That organ argument bis silly.

Pregnancy is completely natural. Organ donation isn't, though amazing in practice.

Donating for charity is amazing too but you don't have to be forced to do it.

What's "natural" is such a silly thing to base morality on. "Naturally", contraception (hell even medicine in general) does not exist and women dying in childbirth is fairly common. That's hardly an argument for preferring that state of affairs to the current one.

[Varx]

A lot of people who seek abortions did not want to get pregnant. They had sex and contraception failed them. So what I'm seeing is no direct rejection of the idea that it's punishment, even if you do not view it as such, that is what it is.

If you engage in sex you know that there's a chance for contraceptives to fail. So if ur not prepared for that then it's your fault not the baby's.

No one is gonna feel bad for you because you lost your life savings in a casino

[Orange Joe]

So no out of spite to the government, despite having the best of everything and predicted to having a healthy pregnancy

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No I do understand them, I just feel like "right to bodily autonomy doesn't apply to perfectly viable and consensual pregnancies.

You wanna fuck up your body with drugs and w/e be by guest. But I don't see pregnancy like that.

But I understand the adoption and financial inability arguments to a certain extent, even if I don't fully agree.

So with that being said, it's just a matter of a difference in values. life being the correct one of a perfect civilized society.

You have already said you are ok with murder in some cases. You DON'T have the moral high ground you think you do.

[Varx]

So I have a right to use your organs, blood or other tissues regardless if you consent or not?

Nope, not the same thing.

Though you were just stopping by?

[gondrin]

Nope, not the same thing.

Though you were just stopping by?

Well, you are saying the mother has to carry the fetus to term regardless of the wishes of the mother outside of some extreme examples. So I am giving you the same type of example as a fetus will use the body of the mother to sustain itself as that is what it does. Without the blood flow from the mother, the fetus will die.

So, once again, I have a right to use your blood, organs or tissues to sustain me regardless if you consent or not? I mean, consistency is a thing here.

[Varx]

Well, you are saying the mother has to carry the fetus to term regardless of the wishes of the mother outside of some extreme examples. So I am giving you the same type of example as a fetus will use the body of the mother to sustain itself as that is what it does. Without the blood flow from the mother, the fetus will die.

So, once again, I have a right to use your blood, organs or tissues to sustain me regardless if you consent or not? I mean, consistency is a thing here.

Again not the same,I already explained why so read back

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You have already said you are ok with murder in some cases. You DON'T have the moral high ground you think you do.

Yeah for self defense.

[Cthulhu 2020]

If you engage in sex you know that there's a chance for contraceptives to fail. So if ur not prepared for that then it's your fault not the baby's.

No one is gonna feel bad for you because you lost your life savings in a casino

People are going to have sex. Having sex for pleasure is something humans have done since the beginning of human history. Having sex for pleasure is something that is even documented among animals. It's quite natural, seeing as how you're a proponent of "natural" stuff, no matter how arbitrary your definition is.

You're not going to stop people from having sex for pleasure. EVER.

So what we've found out is that you don't particularly care about life, and are thus not about life, and you want pregnancy to be the result of sex. So you have a very puritanical view of sex? That it should only ever be for conception?

[Captain N]

So what we've found out is that you don't particularly care about life, and are thus not about life, and you want pregnancy to be the result of sex. So you have a very puritanical view of sex? That it should only ever be for conception?

I'm going to go with he's a staunch advocate on punishing women for having sex because there's a really good chance he's not getting any.

[Varx]

People are going to have sex. Having sex for pleasure is something humans have done since the beginning of human history. Having sex for pleasure is something that is even documented among animals. It's quite natural, seeing as how you're a proponent of "natural" stuff, no matter how arbitrary your definition is.

You're not going to stop people from having sex for pleasure. EVER.

So what we've found out is that you don't particularly care about life, and are thus not about life, and you want pregnancy to be the result of sex. So you have a very puritanical view of sex? That it should only ever be for conception?

Jesus no lol

I'm all for recreational sex lmao. I'm just saying there's an aspect of responsibility that comes with it. Like everything else about growing up

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I'm going to go with he's a staunch advocate on punishing women for having sex because there's a really good chance he's not getting any.

Boy u don't even know. I have a very VERY healthy marriage that begun in sex crazed high school I'm just in tuned with personal accountability

[Endus]

No I do understand them, I just feel like "right to bodily autonomy doesn't apply to perfectly viable and consensual pregnancies.

And yet, you can't even begin making an argument to support that. We keep asking, you keep refusing.

You wanna fuck up your body with drugs and w/e be by guest. But I don't see pregnancy like that.

No what self-ownership is about.

So with that being said, it's just a matter of a difference in values. life being the correct one of a perfect civilized society.

You're not in favor of "life". You're in favor of denying women ownership over themselves, and the infliction of hardship and suffering that entails. As you've freely admitted, you don't actually care about the nascent life that a fetus represents. You openly admitted that. You don't get to take that admission back.

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If you engage in sex you know that there's a chance for contraceptives to fail. So if ur not prepared for that then it's your fault not the baby's.

No one is gonna feel bad for you because you lost your life savings in a casino

If you want to use gambling as a metaphor, here, then forced pregnancy (which is what you're arguing for) is responsibly choosing to stop gambling when you've spent $200 and choosing to go home, and the casino owners block your exist and tell you that you can't leave as long as there's money in your account. You have to stay and continue playing. You don't get a choice; you started gambling, so you can't withdraw your consent after you've started.

That's your argument. It's vile and indefensible. All the bullshit "sex is consent to pregnancy" falls apart once you acknowledge that consent can always be withdrawn. And if you won't allow consent to be withdrawn, well, see the casino example and how that underscores that your position is an attack on women's fundamental rights and freedoms, first and foremost.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Jesus no lol

I'm all for recreational sex lmao. I'm just saying there's an aspect of responsibility that comes with it. Like everything else about growing up

There isn't though. We have very reliable and safe methods of inducing an abortion for unwanted pregnancies. So really, this just seems like you have a very puritan view of sex, or you want to punish women for having sex.

Not that I'd ever share either of those, but I could at least understand a puritan view of sex. I can't understand wanting to punish women who decided to engage in recreational sex because contraception fails.

We realize you and your wife have been attempting to have a child, and have failed thus far. As a stable pair, you have decided you are ready for that. But again, that does mean you get to dictate how other women's bodies are used.