1. #5121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Except pregnancy isnt just dealing with one body.
    That's an outrageously dishonest argument. First, the fetus isn't a person, and all your arguments otherwise mean nothing. Second, even if it were, nobody's infringing on the fetus' bodily autonomy.

    And stop with that weak organ donation argument. I already explained why it's senseless, whether u agree or not is up to u.
    That's the inevitable consequence of your argument. If right to life of Person A can be construed to supercede the right to bodily autonomy of Person B, that's what justifies forcing organ donations. If that upsets you, engage in some self-reflection because it's your argument.

    What part of rape is an EXTREME do you not get?
    In short words so we're clear. I get what you're saying. It's just unreasonable and demonstrates that you're lying to us when you say you think the fetus is a person. Because you're okay, apparently, with killing a child of rape, by your own argument. So now we have to decide; do you think you could freely kill a 12 year old because they're the product of rape? Or were you just lying the whole time you claimed you considered the fetus to be a human being, a person? It's one of the two. Feel free to pick.

    It's not that we don't understand you. We do. That's how we know you're lying.

    Murder is bad plain and simple but you can bet if someone comes Into my home that I'ma make a rug out of them.
    And? Ignoring the castle doctrine nonsense, killing in self defense is not "murder". And pretty much nobody argues that killing is always "wrong". The base principle is not violated by the existence of self defense considerations.

    You can keep screeching I hate women, man you do you. But it is what it is, and rvw is only the beginning, mark my words.
    There's really no other explanation. You don't believe in fetal personhood, and even if you did that's not even an argument against abortion rights, so what else is there?


  2. #5122
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Neither is cold blooded homicide and that's illigal.

    Anyone can do w/e they want to themselves medically. I don't give a fuck.

    But when you're pregnant it's not just you anymore. And people need to own up to their shit.

    You might see it as misogyny but it ain't my fault nature deemed it that only females get pregnant. It is what it is.
    What I find most interesting about conservatives is they think they can force their views one everyone. Its a really simple concept. Don't get an abortion if you don't want one.

  3. #5123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Heh, honestly if anyone is misogynistic, it's liberal women themselves. They spit in the face of the greatest superpower in the planet, their ability to produce offspring.
    That's fucking ridiculous, and demonstrates that, again, your position is entirely religious in origin, despite your false claims otherwise.

    Potatoes can produce offspring. Goldfish produce offspring. It's so completely unspectacular a "superpower" that nearly all multicellular life on the planet is capable of it, and I'm only including "multicellular" because single-celled organisms generally replicate via mitosis, and the question of which is the "offspring" and which the "parent" is nonsensical. But the moment we developed sexual reproduction, life's been producing offspring. It's so categorically baseline to living things that it's less of a "superpower" than taste, or smell, or vision, or even just basic touch.

    The only reason to see it as particularly special is religion. So once again; you've been lying to us.


  4. #5124
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That's an outrageously dishonest argument. First, the fetus isn't a person, and all your arguments otherwise mean nothing. Second, even if it were, nobody's infringing on the fetus' bodily autonomy.



    That's the inevitable consequence of your argument. If right to life of Person A can be construed to supercede the right to bodily autonomy of Person B, that's what justifies forcing organ donations. If that upsets you, engage in some self-reflection because it's your argument.



    In short words so we're clear. I get what you're saying. It's just unreasonable and demonstrates that you're lying to us when you say you think the fetus is a person. Because you're okay, apparently, with killing a child of rape, by your own argument. So now we have to decide; do you think you could freely kill a 12 year old because they're the product of rape? Or were you just lying the whole time you claimed you considered the fetus to be a human being, a person? It's one of the two. Feel free to pick.

    It's not that we don't understand you. We do. That's how we know you're lying.



    And? Ignoring the castle doctrine nonsense, killing in self defense is not "murder". And pretty much nobody argues that killing is always "wrong". The base principle is not violated by the existence of self defense considerations.



    There's really no other explanation. You don't believe in fetal personhood, and even if you did that's not even an argument against abortion rights, so what else is there?
    A fetus is a person and second I'm pretty sure killing them is infringement on their autonomy, wtf lmao.


    I dunno how else I can say it. An exception an extreme is what it is. Saying that all women can get an abortion because a rape victim did is like saying anyone can kill anyone because those who do it in self.defense can.

    I do believe in fetal person hood which is why I'm making these arguments to begin with and it's the only and only argument against abortion, take it or leave it.

    I'm not going to agree with you and you're not with me so why do u keep responding to me.

    If you're worried I might feel lonely, don't. I got plenty others in the thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoulForge View Post
    What I find most interesting about conservatives is they think they can force their views one everyone. Its a really simple concept. Don't get an abortion if you don't want one.
    And liberals don't lol?

    And I got an even more simpler concept. The lives of babies matter, not a woman's master degree in gender studies.

  5. #5125
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    And liberals don't lol?

    And I got an even more simpler concept. The lives of babies matter, not a woman's master degree in gender studies.
    No liberals don't. They force nothing on anyone.

    Same sex marriage? Don't get married to the same sex if you don't like it.

    Abortion? Don't get one if you don't like it.

    All of these are choices. Conservatives take away choice. They always have.

  6. #5126
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    A fetus is a person and second I'm pretty sure killing them is infringement on their autonomy, wtf lmao.
    Say a person is starving to death and no one is giving them food. Is the entirety of humanity infringing on their autonomy?

    Why is the fetus's autonomy more important than the mother's autonomy in this case?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulForge View Post
    No liberals don't. They force nothing on anyone.
    Let's not go that far. Liberals also are the first to mandate people HAVE to be nice and care for each other post-womb.
    Last edited by BeepBoo; 2022-11-11 at 06:00 PM.

  7. #5127
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That's fucking ridiculous, and demonstrates that, again, your position is entirely religious in origin, despite your false claims otherwise.

    Potatoes can produce offspring. Goldfish produce offspring. It's so completely unspectacular a "superpower" that nearly all multicellular life on the planet is capable of it, and I'm only including "multicellular" because single-celled organisms generally replicate via mitosis, and the question of which is the "offspring" and which the "parent" is nonsensical. But the moment we developed sexual reproduction, life's been producing offspring. It's so categorically baseline to living things that it's less of a "superpower" than taste, or smell, or vision, or even just basic touch.

    The only reason to see it as particularly special is religion. So once again; you've been lying to us.
    Nope, I'm the farthest thing from religious. Believe it or not. I know it's hard to comprehend. But I'm just fueled by pure societal morality and you don't need a silly book for that.

    And yeah producing offspring is the most common thing on the planet yet the most powerful. You see life anywhere else in our solar system?

    Nothing else matters in life. Not you're still degree, not you're career. None of that shit matters when you're 90 and dying alone, pathetically in a small bed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Say a person is starving to death and no one is giving them food. Is the entirety of humanity infringing on their autonomy?

    Why is the fetus's autonomy more important than the mother's autonomy in this case?
    Lol what????!


    Did someone force starvation on them????

    The fetus is not more important, they're equal. The mother can easily send them for adoption as they wish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoulForge View Post
    No liberals don't. They force nothing on anyone.

    Same sex marriage? Don't get married to the same sex if you don't like it.

    Abortion? Don't get one if you don't like it.

    All of these are choices. Conservatives take away choice. They always have.
    Oh yeah? What about speech?

    Trying to force people to change language to appease some minority demographics.


    Gtfo...

  8. #5128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    A fetus is a person and second I'm pretty sure killing them is infringement on their autonomy, wtf lmao.
    You're wrong, by definition. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/1/8

    Also, you're confusing bodily autonomy and right to life, intentionally.

    I dunno how else I can say it. An exception an extreme is what it is. Saying that all women can get an abortion because a rape victim did is like saying anyone can kill anyone because those who do it in self.defense can.
    Nope. The self defense laws don't create an exception to any supposed "no killing" law. Only certain types of killing are unlawful, and self defense is one of the cases that isn't.

    Once you've acknowledged that rape victims should be able to abort, you need to make a case for others, on some principle other than the generics you've already admitted can't be true by allowing for rape victims to abort.

    I do believe in fetal person hood which is why I'm making these arguments to begin with and it's the only and only argument against abortion, take it or leave it.
    Like, first, it's objectively false, and second, by allowing exceptions for rape victims, you've admitted you don't even believe it. This is why we can't take you seriously.

    I'm not going to agree with you and you're not with me so why do u keep responding to me.
    Where'd you ever get the idea I'm trying to convince you? You don't matter. I'm making sure nobody else thinks you have anything meaningful to say and doesn't get misled by the nonsense you're trying to push.


  9. #5129
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Oh yeah? What about speech?

    Trying to force people to change language to appease some minority demographics.


    Gtfo...
    Show me the law forcing speech that liberals have passed.

  10. #5130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Nope, I'm the farthest thing from religious. Believe it or not. I know it's hard to comprehend. But I'm just fueled by pure societal morality and you don't need a silly book for that.
    You claimed basic reproduction was a "superpower". That's a fundamentally religion-based view. You're lying to my face.

    Oh yeah? What about speech?

    Trying to force people to change language to appease some minority demographics.
    You're free to be as racist and bigoted as you want to be in your speech. There's no law against that.

    Everyone else is free to think you're a bigoted shithead for doing so, and say so publicly to call you out, and stop having anything to do with you including ending business and employment relationships. And the only one responsible for those outcomes would be you, for being a bigot, in this hypothetical. Nothing's been "forced" on you; you demonstrated that you're a terrible person and others responded accordingly.


  11. #5131
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Did someone force starvation on them????
    Why does it matter how they ended up starving? Most of the time I'd say poor people end up where they are due to unfortunate circumstances and bad luck as opposed to outright horrible decisions. To me, that doesn't matter. It's still a whole lot of "not my problem, not my concern."

    The fetus is not more important, they're equal. The mother can easily send them for adoption as they wish.
    But you see, there literally isn't an "equal" in this circumstance. Equal would be neither party gets what they want, or both parties get what they want, but that's not happening in your scenario. The baby gets what it (presumably innately) "wants" while the mother doesn't. The mom is forced to continue to supplement the life of the unborn child like a parasite.

    So, someone has to win, and my predisposition is always in favor of whoever is the one that would be providing the support to the other. If something can't live on it's own and would require the forced help of something else, that first "something" deserves to not be alive.

  12. #5132
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You're wrong, by definition. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/1/8

    Also, you're confusing bodily autonomy and right to life, intentionally.



    Nope. The self defense laws don't create an exception to any supposed "no killing" law. Only certain types of killing are unlawful, and self defense is one of the cases that isn't.

    Once you've acknowledged that rape victims should be able to abort, you need to make a case for others, on some principle other than the generics you've already admitted can't be true by allowing for rape victims to abort.



    Like, first, it's objectively false, and second, by allowing exceptions for rape victims, you've admitted you don't even believe it. This is why we can't take you seriously.



    Where'd you ever get the idea I'm trying to convince you? You don't matter. I'm making sure nobody else thinks you have anything meaningful to say and doesn't get misled by the nonsense you're trying to push.
    Lol you're not making a service to anyone. I'm sure everyone here is capable of coming to their own conclusion with your help so go take your high horse back to the stable Sir white knight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoulForge View Post
    Show me the law forcing speech that liberals have passed.
    There isn't, but they'd pass it if they could. Look at shi hole Canada for example.

    And that's the point. And you said only conservatives apparently try to force their shit on people.

    Hypocrite liberals as usual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You claimed basic reproduction was a "superpower". That's a fundamentally religion-based view. You're lying to my face.



    You're free to be as racist and bigoted as you want to be in your speech. There's no law against that.

    Everyone else is free to think you're a bigoted shithead for doing so, and say so publicly to call you out, and stop having anything to do with you including ending business and employment relationships. And the only one responsible for those outcomes would be you, for being a bigot, in this hypothetical. Nothing's been "forced" on you; you demonstrated that you're a terrible person and others responded accordingly.
    Yeah thank God, freedom of speech is amazing. But the point I was making is that liberals would do such a thing which is them forcing their fascism towards others to protect a very small minority, again Canada is a prime example.

    It's just an example as that poster said that only conservatives try to push shit on others

  13. #5133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    There isn't, but they'd pass it if they could. Look at shi hole Canada for example.
    Oh god, are you one of the people who fell for Peterson's stupid bullshit about Bill C-17?

    Canada ranks higher than the USA on freedom indices. But sure, we're a "shit hole", that makes you sound reasonable.


  14. #5134
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Why does it matter how they ended up starving? Most of the time I'd say poor people end up where they are due to unfortunate circumstances and bad luck as opposed to outright horrible decisions. To me, that doesn't matter. It's still a whole lot of "not my problem, not my concern."

    But you see, there literally isn't an "equal" in this circumstance. Equal would be neither party gets what they want, or both parties get what they want, but that's not happening in your scenario. The baby gets what it (presumably innately) "wants" while the mother doesn't. The mom is forced to continue to supplement the life of the unborn child like a parasite.

    So, someone has to win, and my predisposition is always in favor of whoever is the one that would be providing the support to the other. If something can't live on it's own and would require the forced help of something else, that first "something" deserves to not be alive.
    Of course they both win, baby lives, mom gives up parental rights. Her body is designed for pregnancy so relax. And I'm all for life of the mother exception given complications.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Oh god, are you one of the people who fell for Peterson's stupid bullshit about Bill C-17?

    Canada ranks higher than the USA on freedom indices. But sure, we're a "shit hole", that makes you sound reasonable.
    Canada has criminalized misgendering people... That's what I'm talking about. Now stop derailing the thread and get off your high horse, no one here needs your wisdom, we're all adults.

  15. #5135
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Of course they both win, baby lives, mom gives up parental rights. Her body is designed for pregnancy so relax. And I'm all for life of the mother exception given complications.
    They don't both win, though. You're just completely ignoring the entire PREGNANCY part of it and skipping to the end. IMO even 1 second of the mother giving forced help she doesn't want to is too much and flies in the face of "equal."

    You're saying she's not equal during the pregnancy, but gets to resume being treated as an equal after. That. Is. Not. Equal.

  16. #5136
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Canada has criminalized misgendering people... That's what I'm talking about. Now stop derailing the thread and get off your high horse, no one here needs your wisdom, we're all adults.
    Yep, that never happened, that was bullshit Peterson invented because he's a fascy idiot and gullible rubes lapped it up.

    You are, again, just openly lying.


  17. #5137
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    They don't both win, though. You're just completely ignoring the entire PREGNANCY part of it and skipping to the end. IMO even 1 second of the mother giving forced help she doesn't want to is too much and flies in the face of "equal."

    You're saying she's not equal during the pregnancy, but gets to resume being treated as an equal after. That. Is. Not. Equal.
    Did anyone force her to get pregnant? No.

    And pregnancy is a natural part of life. She'll be fine... You act like someone is taking a chainsaw to her limbs.

  18. #5138
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Yep, that never happened, that was bullshit Peterson invented because he's a fascy idiot and gullible rubes lapped it up.

    You are, again, just openly lying.
    I had to correct my Dad on this Bullshit as well. I'm amazed it keeps going around.

  19. #5139
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Yep, that never happened, that was bullshit Peterson invented because he's a fascy idiot and gullible rubes lapped it up.

    You are, again, just openly lying.
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...fm5RwiGBZF5CJF

    Amazing what a quick Google search does.

  20. #5140
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Did anyone force her to get pregnant? No.

    And pregnancy is a natural part of life. She'll be fine... You act like someone is taking a chainsaw to her limbs.
    They literally are. Pregnancy is hard on the human body. And sure as hell isn't 100% safe. Abortion is safer statistically. Some people also have a higher predisposition for problems during pregnancy.

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