SCOTUS removes Roe V Wade

[Endus]

Im not moving goal post. You need me to hold your hand for everything I say? You a coder or something? Follow the bouncing ball. It's all specifics and semantics with you.

You claimed it was about "unique DNA blueprints". Then, when that was obviously ridiculous because identical twins share DNA blueprints, you started talking about "minds" and "sentience", shifting it back towards arguing that there's some ineffable "soul" that emerges at conception. Because that "mind" sure doesn't exist until somewhere in the 2nd trimester, at best.

Edit: And I'll note that the earliest arguments are based on coherency in brain wave activity, which is a really poor argument, since lobsters have coherent brain waves. Lobsters are also "sentient", since all that means is "being able to perceive via senses". It's a poor measure for the idea that there's a "mind" that's active inside that fetus in any but the most animalistic sense.

[Varx]

In other words, an "abortion".

Basic medical definitions really bother you, don't they?

An abortion is deliberate, a miscarriage is not. It's a very clear difference.

What next, death by heart attack is suicide?

[Darththeo]

An abortion is deliberate, a miscarriage is not. It's a very clear difference.

What next, death by heart attack is suicide?

The medical term for miscarriage is spontaneous abortion.

Also, death by heart attack is a method of suicide in a sense.

[Varx]

Walks like a duck, talks like a duck, idolize a dogshit rapist like a duck. We have you pegged for what you are.

No wonder metoo is considered a joke now a days

[Darththeo]

Im not moving goal post. You need me to hold your hand for everything I say? You a coder or something? Follow the bouncing ball. It's all specifics and semantics with you.

Says the person who can't admit the pro-life arguments are not based on science, despite given evidence of that.

[Endus]

An abortion is deliberate, a miscarriage is not. It's a very clear difference.

What next, death by heart attack is suicide?

An induced abortion is deliberate, a spontaneous abortion is not.

They're both medically defined as "abortions". Because all "abortion" means is that a pregnancy has been ended before natural birth. Miscarriages are defined as abortions.

[Varx]

No one can say what you are saying. Again, the majority of abortions are due to unknown causes. You cannot assert a cause onto it.

To say it was not normal or healthy is to assert a cause. Most cases it is unknown what caused it.

Dude, it is not NORMAL for a pregnancy to spontaneous end like that. Like.are you serious.

The normal thing to happen is to conceive then gestate for 9 months, if that doesn't happen then something went wrong.

Like what part.of that don't.you get?

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This is false. You have no basis for this, you're literally making it up. Most miscarriages occur for reasons that aren't understood.

Also, you're literally describing an abortion, here, still.



https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...report-n858476

Banning abortions increases abortion rates. Canada, for instance, has a lower abortion rate than the USA, despite having absolutely no legal restrictions on abortion whatsoever.

If you really wanted to limit abortion rates, you'd support abortion rights.



That just means that "killing another human being" is not defined as "murder". And it isn't. It's defined as "homicide". And not all homicides are unlawful. Lawful homicides aren't exceptions to some base rule.

You're mangling the legal definitions and premises and proving your argument false, here.

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"Soul"-like arguing detected.

You keep falling back on that no matter how many times you insist you're not talking about it.

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It does in literally every other case. Why would pregnancy be an exception? You're arguing it should be and the onus is on you to justify that to us.

Because pregnancy is natural and involves an innocent life of an individual.

[Endus]

Dude, it is not NORMAL for a pregnancy to spontaneous end like that. Like.are you serious.

10-20% of pregnancies end in miscarriage. It's absolutely "normal". It may not be the most common outcome, but claiming it's "abnormal" is like claiming that blonde hair is "abnormal", or being left-handed. It's a super weird take.

[Darththeo]

Dude, it is not NORMAL for a pregnancy to spontaneous end like that. Like.are you serious.

The normal thing to happen is to conceive then gestate for 9 months, if that doesn't happen then something went wrong.

Like what part.of that don't.you get?

Wow, dude, stop and think before you type. Think if you were saying this to a woman that had a miscarriage.

Miscarriages are 100% normal. They are natural, they happen. Saying otherwise is beyond just merely being wrong, it is cruel.

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10-20% of pregnancies end in miscarriage. It's absolutely "normal". It may not be the most common outcome, but claiming it's "abnormal" is like claiming that blonde hair is "abnormal", or being left-handed. It's a super weird take.

Not just super weird. It is cruel in my opinion.

[Endus]

Because pregnancy is natural and involves an innocent life of an individual.

So are abortions. And the "innocent life" in this equation is that of the pregnant person, despite how much you want to pretend they don't matter and should have no rights.

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Not just super weird. It is cruel in my opinion.

It's a real short step to blaming people for their miscarriages, which is just unconscionably horrible.

Speaking as a dude whose then-wife had a miscarriage when we were trying for kids, so I'm not just spouting off. And as badly as that marriage ended, I really wanted to be a dad.

[Varx]

You claimed it was about "unique DNA blueprints". Then, when that was obviously ridiculous because identical twins share DNA blueprints, you started talking about "minds" and "sentience", shifting it back towards arguing that there's some ineffable "soul" that emerges at conception. Because that "mind" sure doesn't exist until somewhere in the 2nd trimester, at best.

Edit: And I'll note that the earliest arguments are based on coherency in brain wave activity, which is a really poor argument, since lobsters have coherent brain waves. Lobsters are also "sentient", since all that means is "being able to perceive via senses". It's a poor measure for the idea that there's a "mind" that's active inside that fetus in any but the most animalistic sense.

Ffs dude, again, you SERIOUSLY need me to tell you why twins and triplets don't apply to that. Are you serious????

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The medical term for miscarriage is spontaneous abortion.

Also, death by heart attack is a method of suicide in a sense.

Okay well your done....

[Endus]

Ffs dude, again, you SERIOUSLY need me to tell you why twins and triplets don't apply to that. Are you serious????

I just want you to make a single coherent, consistent argument, rather than spouting off completely debunkable nonsense like "unique DNA blueprints" and then immediately retracting it when the most-trivial of examples proves that argument completely ridiculous.

Yes, I know why arguing that twins and triplets aren't people is ridiculous. You still made that argument. Don't blame me for pointing out how silly and meritless that argument was. Be better.

[Varx]

An induced abortion is deliberate, a spontaneous abortion is not.

They're both medically defined as "abortions". Because all "abortion" means is that a pregnancy has been ended before natural birth. Miscarriages are defined as abortions.

Dude no one refers to miscarriage as abortion.

Just stop with the semantics. This isn't about "SPonTANeOus abortions anyway. And you know it.


Ugh, this is typical leftwing tactic. To derail the conversation on BS like this.

[Darththeo]

Okay well your done....

It isn't my fault you don't know that certain drugs can induce heart attacks.
And if you intentionally take one to cause one, that would be suicide by heart attack.

Again, you not being knowledgeable isn't my fault.

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Dude no one refers to miscarriage as abortion.

Yes, the entire medical professional are no ones.

[Edge-]

Dude, it is not NORMAL for a pregnancy to spontaneous end like that. Like.are you serious.

https://www.marchofdimes.org/find-su...ef/miscarriage

Jesus, how are you so hilariously uniformed about almost every single aspect of this discussion, rofl.

Miscarriage are absolutely "normal", and conservatives have this really weird view of pregnancy as some beautiful, peaceful, smooth, almost "immaculate" process rather than it still, especially in the US and doubly so in the south and triply so if you're a woman of color in the south, being a messy, painful, and carrying fairly considerable risk to women's health.

[Endus]

Dude no one refers to miscarriage as abortion.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK560521/
https://www.aafp.org/pubs/afp/issues...001/p1243.html
https://www.rxlist.com/spontaneous_a...definition.htm
https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/001488.htm
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics...neous-abortion
https://openmd.com/define/spontaneous+abortion

You have literally no idea what you're talking about.

[Varx]

Wow, dude, stop and think before you type. Think if you were saying this to a woman that had a miscarriage.

Miscarriages are 100% normal. They are natural, they happen. Saying otherwise is beyond just merely being wrong, it is cruel.

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Not just super weird. It is cruel in my opinion.

What exactly do you think I'm saying????

Yes miscarriage are a natural phenomenon in nature. That doesn't mean it's the "norm" of reproduction.

The norm is to gestate and give. Birth after 9 months.

Miscarriage means something went wrong in that process that normally shouldn't happen.

Like where am I losing you with this?

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So are abortions. And the "innocent life" in this equation is that of the pregnant person, despite how much you want to pretend they don't matter and should have no rights.

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It's a real short step to blaming people for their miscarriages, which is just unconscionably horrible.

Speaking as a dude whose then-wife had a miscarriage when we were trying for kids, so I'm not just spouting off. And as badly as that marriage ended, I really wanted to be a dad.

Okay since your all about semantics.

INDUCED abortions are not natural.

And normally the mother isn't going to die from child birth. Lol

[Endus]

What exactly do you think I'm saying????

Yes miscarriage are a natural phenomenon in nature. That doesn't mean it's the "norm" of reproduction.

The norm is to gestate and give. Birth after 9 months.

Miscarriage means something went wrong in that process that normally shouldn't happen.

Like where am I losing you with this?

That "norms" aren't single factors, but a statistical breadth of likely outcomes/circumstances. You're misusing terminology again.

Would you agree that it's not "normal" to be a black person in the USA? Because that's the same ridiculous misuse of the term as you're using.

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Okay since your all about semantics.

INDUCED abortions are not natural.

Hence "induced". You're being tautological.

And normally the mother isn't going to die from child birth. Lol

Look at those new goalposts come flying into play.

[Varx]

I just want you to make a single coherent, consistent argument, rather than spouting off completely debunkable nonsense like "unique DNA blueprints" and then immediately retracting it when the most-trivial of examples proves that argument completely ridiculous.

Yes, I know why arguing that twins and triplets aren't people is ridiculous. You still made that argument. Don't blame me for pointing out how silly and meritless that argument was. Be better.

I made that argument to prove that even at the cusp of life a person is a person even if they're just one cell.

[Darththeo]

What exactly do you think I'm saying????

Yes miscarriage are a natural phenomenon in nature. That doesn't mean it's the "norm" of reproduction.

The norm is to gestate and give. Birth after 9 months.

Miscarriage means something went wrong in that process that normally shouldn't happen.

Like where am I losing you with this?

If it is natural, it is normal.

And miscarriage doesn't mean something "went wrong." No medical professional holds that opinion.

Like where am I losing you with this?

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I made that argument to prove that even at the cusp of life a person is a person even if they're just one cell.

Which isn't a scientific argument against abortion.
Which was what started this.