SCOTUS removes Roe V Wade

[Kathandira]

So when is the protest? I see my FB feed is blazing with this topic right now. Yet I haven’t seen anyone talking about an organized march in DC yet. This definitely seems to be something worthy of protest.

[Darththeo]

So when is the protest? I see my FB feed is blazing with this topic right now. Yet I haven’t seen anyone talking about an organized march in DC yet. This definitely seems to be something worthy of protest.

There are already protests in DC.

There are Pro-Choice and Anti-Abortion protests going on in DC.

[Kathandira]

There are already protests in DC.

There are Pro-Choice and Anti-Abortion protests going on in DC.

Do you have any sort of link that gives details on the pro choice protests? I want to share it in my FB feed.

[Breccia]

Abortion is on the decline, everywhere. Republicans are trying to virtue signal by coming up with a problem that isn't even a problem -- red states have much lower rates.

I guess they're desperate to come up with a 2022 campaign issue that isn't "Trump won".

[Dontrike]

Their internal discussions and public opinions are strictly SCOTUS', and no one else's.

With the decision they're likely to make it's not just their's. They can't decree "our privacy" while trying to strip about half the population's privacy. Context definitely matters here and while it may be wrong within the law it was the right thing to do.

[Draco-Onis]

Abortion is on the decline, everywhere. Republicans are trying to virtue signal by coming up with a problem that isn't even a problem -- red states have much lower rates.

I guess they're desperate to come up with a 2022 campaign issue that isn't "Trump won".

Since Trump they have been entirely focused on the culture wars and those type of issues because they have nothing else. All this bluster about saving the filibuster is moot, once republicans have power it will be gone so they can pass federal versions of all these laws.

[Ettan]

How is this crazy? Right now, this would actually be a victory for women in that they'd have somewhere to get the medical help they need. This isn't "we did it, we got access to abortions somewhere, its over, whatever happens doesn't matter now"... its "our country is going backwards, this country will offer the help we need, should that need actually arise, thanks to them."

But hey, gotta go at those pesky Democrats wherever possible, right? They're totally the reason for all this.

Well is this not something they can already do? It only being slightly more cost prohibitive, but hey I guess you could like plan a whole vecation araund it.
And to my understanding (personally idgaf on abortion tbh) the overruling is for allowing states to decide on the state level; not a nationwide ban.
So you would still have xyz states "right" next door, where you could go deletus that fetus.
With that in mind, I would reason it only really applies to the republican states bordering canada; ID MT ND.
Not exactly population dense states and then again; only the northernmost areas of those states; so even less people.

That makes it seem alittle bit crazy/ blown up to me;
But at the same time something nice for those idk 100-200k? who live in that particular area.

[Darththeo]

This has been there process for a while now. You make up a "problem," you get mad about said "problem," you amplify said "problem," you show up on Fox News about said "problem," fools all across the US now believe said "problem" and get mad about it.

I was told I was wrong on Twitter when I pointed out that abortions since Roe have been trending downwards because people believe abortions are just rising.

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Well is this not something they can already do? It only being slightly more cost prohibitive, but hey I guess you could like plan a whole vecation araund it.
And to my understanding (personally idgaf on abortion tbh) the overruling is for allowing states to decide on the state level; not a nationwide ban.
So you would still have xyz states "right" next door, where you could go deletus that fetus.
With that in mind, I would reason it only really applies to the republican states bordering canada; ID MT ND.
Not exactly population dense states and then again; only the northernmost areas of those states; so even less people.

That makes it seem alittle bit crazy/ blown up to me;
But at the same time something nice for those idk 100-200k? who live in that particular area.

Yeah, but there are states proposing legislation to make it illegal to go to another state or country for abortion services.

[beanman12345]

First, let me say I hate being on this side of the discussion. My position on McConnell and the GQP and all those things hopefully is clear.

That being said. McConnell's correct because the breach of internal memo's from SCOTUS' preliminary discussion is a breach of policy/procedure. Their internal discussions and public opinions are strictly SCOTUS', and no one else's. There is no room in our laws for public outcry to affect a particular opinion. The laws SCOTUS are interpreting and ruling on are already written. The time to change those is with the Legislative and Executive Branch. Even to affect the SCOTUS Justices (i.e. appointment and impeachment) come from those other two branches.

Leaking internal documents from SCOTUS and expecting changes to occur to their opinion is a fundamental attack on our laws and values. We absolutely do not want that to happen. It's tantamount to mob rule.

If mob rule happens from this SCOTUS are entirely to blame.

[Breccia]

I was told I was wrong on Twitter when I pointed out that abortions since Roe have been trending downwards because people believe abortions are just rising.

When you shove that article up their Axios, make sure you point out Florida is above the national average.

[Flarelaine]

fetal birth defects that would result in the baby dying soon after birth fall under medical shit too. and most fetal birth defects that wouldnt result in death cna be detected before the 20 week cutoff, normally.

It's tangential, but I remember some Swiss researchers came up with a test to detect Down syndrome as early as the 5th week.

You know who started protesting and calling for a ban? So-called Down advocates. They claimed mothers would surely want to abort those precious little gems so they cannot know.

So, yes, most birth defects can be detected... if they allow you to test. And in this case, if somehow medical exemptions stay alive, I fully expect ratfucking with access to such tests.

[Endus]

Within this framework, please explain convictions for manslaughter and or murder of a fetus from say a drunk drive striking a pregnant woman. Since it wasn’t the mother’s intention to abort the fetus, does that mean it gained equal protection under the law?

Simple, and obvious, and explicit in those laws. Attacking or killing a pregnant woman is seen as particularly egregious, so in some jurisdictions they're treated as if the fetus were a person. Because it's clear the fetus is not actually a person, because if it were, such laws would not exist at all.

The very existence of those laws is a strong argument against pro-life positions, not a seeming support of the same.

And that’s really the rub. Where is that point? Science has yet to answer that question as far as I know which is one of the reasons why people still look to religion to answer that question (beyond merely being religious). Get that answer wrong and maybe we’ve been committing genocide on a massive scale. It’s not an easy answer which is exactly why I believe it should be between a woman and her doctor. But the rhetoric about how fetuses aren’t people? Fucking gross.

The discussion is absolutely fucking meaningless. It's a distraction from the relevant issue.

That issue is women's basic human rights to the control and use of their own body.

You can't force a corpse to donate organs or tissue against the will of the now-deceased person it used to be, so why the everloving hell would you be able to force a living person to do the same, in the case of a pregnancy? And no; "because the fetus is a human being" is not an argument; in the case of organ donations, those organs save actual human lives, no dispute about when they become human available. And in the case of the corpse, the position is clear; the individual has the inalienable right to deny such use. Even if other people will die as a result of that decision.

Fetal personhood does not matter. If we decided to grant that a fetus was fully a human being at conception (I'm not granting that, this is hypothetical), that provides no argument or principle that would justify banning abortion, at any particular abitrary stage of fetal development. At best, it argues for inducing birth or removing the fetus intact if it has reached a stage of potential viability, and if the fetus survives or not is up to the fetus and post-natal NICU care. Ending the pregnancy must always be the pregnant woman's right.

Anything less is a dehumanization of women and a declaration that their rights are considered inferior to those of others, including the fetus in their womb. There is no argument for restrictions or bans on abortion that does not, fundamentally, boil down to "women are lesser and their purpose as breeding stock takes precedence over any illusion that they're actually people". It's outright misogyny, and nothing more. "But my religious views . . . " congrats, your religion is misogynist and treats women like absolute shit.

[Belize]

If mob rule happens from this SCOTUS are entirely to blame.

His argument doesn't hold any water either, considering Roe is supported by a vast majority of Americans.
Overturning it is simply a minority ruling over a majority and is antithetical to either a Democracy or a Republic since I know we're gonna have a few smartasses that'll try to argue the U.S. is a RePuBlIc NoT a DeMoCrAcY

[Endus]

His argument doesn't hold any water either, considering Roe is supported by a vast majority of Americans.
Overturning it is simply a minority ruling over a majority and is antithetical to either a Democracy or a Republic since I know we're gonna have a few smartasses that'll try to argue the U.S. is a RePuBlIc NoT a DeMoCrAcY

I mean, if we're fair, Roe is a really shitty decision that tried to avoid the actual topic of abortion rights and focused on a right to privacy so they could avoid taking an actual stance on the relevant issue. It's a decision rooted in moral cowardice, for all that it's been held up and lauded for so long.

The outcome was good, but we're at this point because the justices in Roe v. Wade were too chickenshit to make a proper decision. Right to health and bodily autonomy is right there, it's an easy argument to make.

[minteK917]

The issue is that while Democrats have 50 seats in Congress now, the only way to protect it fully is with an Amendment to the Constitution and that won't happen because 50 senators isn't enough.

Also, as it stands right now, only 49 Senators would vote for the bill while Manchin is questionable if they would vote yes. It was Sinema and Manchin, but Sinema came out and voiced her support for the bill.

Thats why i said, its just odd this was never made into law since 1973... the democrat had plently of opportunities in the past. Like most of the other western countries, but never took it. You guys give too much power to courts.

[Darththeo]

Thats why i said, its just odd this was never made into law since 1973... the democrat had plently of opportunities in the past. Like most of the other western countries, but never took it. You guys give too much power to courts.

We have a growing population in the United States of people who believe the courts are the sole determiner of law here.
And even then they make up rules on what courts actually do that.

As for why it was never done, the United States suffers from political theater. Politics that do nothing, but look like they are doing something.

There are politicians who vote against a bill, and then take credit for the bill if passed if their supporters love it.
There are politicians who say they'll support X, but then vote no because "it wasn't passing anyway."

The reason I am not affiliated with a party is I HATE political theater. Republicans don't want a national ban on abortion when they had control because then they lose a selling point of why they are the better party.

[Darththeo]

I thank whatever magical sky deities there are that Twitter isn't real life each and every day. People go on about how crazy the left wing folks on there are, but some of the right wing stuff is absolutely bonkers.

Right wing twitter is insane.

"WE ARE BEING CENSORED BY TWITTER!" posted on Twitter after every time they post their opinions that remain on twitter and aren't removed.

[Elegiac]

I thank whatever magical sky deities there are that Twitter isn't real life each and every day. People go on about how crazy the left wing folks on there are, but some of the right wing stuff is absolutely bonkers.

It's something like 80% of posts being made by only 10% of American users if I recall correctly.

[Drutt]

You REALLY don't want mob rule, it always leads to horrible things.

People say that, but it seems to me that minority rule is far worse.

The Senate is more than sufficient of a power check on a theoretical malicious majority. There's no need to skew the result of a national two horse race for the office of the Presidency. It only serves to facilitate fringe candidates sneaking into the role.

[Drutt]

Right wing twitter is insane.

"WE ARE BEING CENSORED BY TWITTER!" posted on Twitter after every time they post their opinions that remain on twitter and aren't removed.

Gotta feed the victim complex, or everything starts to unravel.