1. #6001
    This is interesting. How are these people getting elected? Unless it is another joke proposition. It does have the support of 21 South Carolina legislators.

    South Carolina Prenatal Equal Protection Act of 2023

    The bill would confer personhood on a zygote. Basically, a fertilized egg at the point of conception. It would subject a woman having an abortion in South Carolina to a charge of homicide. Which under SC laws may be subject to the death sentence by electrocution, by firing squad or lethal injection. I guess the convicted person get to choose one of the three.

  2. #6002
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    The bill would confer personhood on a zygote. Basically, a fertilized egg at the point of conception. It would subject a woman having an abortion in South Carolina to a charge of homicide. Which under SC laws may be subject to the death sentence by electrocution, by firing squad or lethal injection. I guess the convicted person get to choose one of the three.
    Is that it?

    What if the pregnant person smokes or drinks alcohol? Is that assault/abuse? How about if either of those things results in a stillbirth? Is that murder? If they don't wear their seatbelt and get in an accident that causes the pregnancy to be terminated, are they liable for involuntary manslaughter/vehicular manslaughter? Can pregnant people at any stage of pregnancy drive in carpool lanes legally? Do they need to pay for two tickets to the movie theater?

    This opens a host of legal questions throughout every aspect of daily life.

  3. #6003
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Is that it?

    What if the pregnant person smokes or drinks alcohol? Is that assault/abuse? How about if either of those things results in a stillbirth? Is that murder? If they don't wear their seatbelt and get in an accident that causes the pregnancy to be terminated, are they liable for involuntary manslaughter/vehicular manslaughter? Can pregnant people at any stage of pregnancy drive in carpool lanes legally? Do they need to pay for two tickets to the movie theater?

    This opens a host of legal questions throughout every aspect of daily life.
    Section 16-3-760. (A) As used in this article, "fertilization" means the fusion of a human spermatozoon with a human ovum.

    (B) As used in this article, "person" includes an unborn child at every stage of development from fertilization until birth.

    Section 16-3-761. Where the victim is an unborn child and the defendant is the child's mother, it is a defense to prosecution under this article that the mother engaged in the proscribed conduct because she was compelled to do so by the threat of imminent death or great bodily injury.

    Section 16-3-762. In a prosecution under this article where the victim is an unborn child, unless specifically provided otherwise:

    (1) enforcement is subject to the same presumptions, defenses, justifications, laws of parties, immunities, and clemencies as would apply to the assault of a person who had been born alive;

    (2) solicitors and the Attorney General shall have concurrent authority to prosecute criminal cases and to perform any duty that necessarily relates to such prosecution; and

    (3) this article prevails over other law to the extent of any conflict.
    The whole thing is crazy. Like I said, how did these people get elected in the first place?

  4. #6004
    Man, they really seem to hate clearly defined laws, at least as long as having loosely defined laws works in their interest.

    If this passes there's likely going to be a lot of case-law that needs to be built around this so people can figure out just how much of a "person" that little clump of cells is. Will someone need to pay for a second metro card to ride the train, or would that be fare hopping for the passenger?

  5. #6005
    Pandaren Monk masterhorus8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Man, they really seem to hate clearly defined laws, at least as long as having loosely defined laws works in their interest.

    If this passes there's likely going to be a lot of case-law that needs to be built around this so people can figure out just how much of a "person" that little clump of cells is. Will someone need to pay for a second metro card to ride the train, or would that be fare hopping for the passenger?
    Normally, vague laws wind up losing in court, yeah? Just too many people are scared to fight these...
    9

  6. #6006
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Will someone need to pay for a second metro card to ride the train, or would that be fare hopping for the passenger?
    Women better be ready to be asked if they are pregnant every time they buy a ticket for themselves. Can't have them cheap out on a second fare.

  7. #6007
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Women better be ready to be asked if they are pregnant every time they buy a ticket for themselves. Can't have them cheap out on a second fare.
    Will be interesting seeing signs with admission prices having to put on it that fetuses get in free.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  8. #6008
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Women better be ready to be asked if they are pregnant every time they buy a ticket for themselves. Can't have them cheap out on a second fare.
    That's a fair point: If they're unaware they are pregnant and say, only pay for one fare on the train, can the train company come after them to collect the second fare after they find out they're now carrying a passenger, themselves?

  9. #6009
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    That's a fair point: If they're unaware they are pregnant and say, only pay for one fare on the train, can the train company come after them to collect the second fare after they find out they're now carrying a passenger, themselves?
    I see your point, I see your point. The law must be amended that women have to keep track of every bus ticket they bought in the last couple months and in the happy event of a fusion of a human spermatozoon with a human ovum they are required to disclose this fact to the nearest bus driver and buy another ticket for each they used earlier.

  10. #6010
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    We'd love to see good-faith, responsible, and objectively justifiable arguments. The problem is that right-wingers insist on presenting only arguments rooted in petty, abusive bigotries, and with a goal of inflicting suffering and hardship on innocents, and demanding consideration despite those factual and ethical failures out the gate.

    You want your arguments to be given due consideration and respect? Make arguments that deserve it, because you and the rest sure the fuck haven't been.
    Not really just it's a learned defense to move the topic towards forbidden topics to get them banned or make the entire topic taboo.

    It's why once you leave a left leaning platform to an open one most left leaning ideology is eviscerated. It can't even acknowledge arguments against it much less debate them.

  11. #6011
    Quote Originally Posted by Tentim View Post
    It's why once you leave a left leaning platform to an open one most left leaning ideology is eviscerated. It can't even acknowledge arguments against it much less debate them.
    rofl

    Meanwhile in reality - https://twitter.com/vanguard_pod/sta...49284355211264

    Conservatives consistently crumple at the slightest pushback. Including failing to be able to define a term they wrote an entire fucking book about.

  12. #6012
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    rofl

    Meanwhile in reality - https://twitter.com/vanguard_pod/sta...49284355211264

    Conservatives consistently crumple at the slightest pushback. Including failing to be able to define a term they wrote an entire fucking book about.
    Imagine that, finding a idoit on Twitter riveting stuff that.

  13. #6013
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tentim View Post
    Not really just it's a learned defense to move the topic towards forbidden topics to get them banned or make the entire topic taboo.

    It's why once you leave a left leaning platform to an open one most left leaning ideology is eviscerated. It can't even acknowledge arguments against it much less debate them.
    Case in point about the resilience of conservative arguments; you're manufacturing a nonsense persecution claim rather than attempting to make any actual counterclaim to any actual argument presented.

    So I repeat; We'd love to see good-faith, responsible, and objectively justifiable arguments. Instead, you insist on this kind of nonsense.


  14. #6014
    Quote Originally Posted by Tentim View Post
    Imagine that, finding a idoit on Twitter riveting stuff that.
    "on twitter"

    On Hill Rising, a generally garbage podcast that's long platformed right wing idiots, having been created by Jon Solomon.

    Sorry if that example is inconvenient.

  15. #6015
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tentim View Post
    Not really just it's a learned defense to move the topic towards forbidden topics to get them banned or make the entire topic taboo.

    It's why once you leave a left leaning platform to an open one most left leaning ideology is eviscerated. It can't even acknowledge arguments against it much less debate them.
    Please provide evidence of this. The only time I have ever seen this sort of thing is when they pull some random person off the street or when they just yell at someone and consider that winning the argument. Probably because the vast majority of right-wing talking points cannot actually be backed up with any sort of evidence.

    I also recommend that you watch any Jordan Klepper Trump rally videos to see an actual example of what you describe occurring.

  16. #6016
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Case in point about the resilience of conservative arguments; you're manufacturing a nonsense persecution claim rather than attempting to make any actual counterclaim to any actual argument presented.

    So I repeat; We'd love to see good-faith, responsible, and objectively justifiable arguments. Instead, you insist on this kind of nonsense.
    As you insist. Best of luck out there

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    "on twitter"

    On Hill Rising, a generally garbage podcast that's long platformed right wing idiots, having been created by Jon Solomon.

    Sorry if that example is inconvenient.
    I have no idea what any of those things or people are...

  17. #6017
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterhorus8 View Post
    Normally, vague laws wind up losing in court, yeah? Just too many people are scared to fight these...
    They can't afford to either, public defenders are kinda ass most times.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    That's a fair point: If they're unaware they are pregnant and say, only pay for one fare on the train, can the train company come after them to collect the second fare after they find out they're now carrying a passenger, themselves?
    Insurance for the thing also.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  18. #6018
    Quote Originally Posted by Tentim View Post
    Not really just it's a learned defense to move the topic towards forbidden topics to get them banned or make the entire topic taboo.

    It's why once you leave a left leaning platform to an open one most left leaning ideology is eviscerated. It can't even acknowledge arguments against it much less debate them.
    Remember the good ol' days when you were pretending to be an enlightened centrist? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.

  19. #6019
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Remember the good ol' days when you were pretending to be an enlightened centrist? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.
    No but I recall both sides idoits in whatever the thread was about. Not aligning with either of the major parties out of sheer embarrassment for their stupidity is a more subtle position then blue/red and confuses people horribly. I'm rarely on the fence about most issues.

  20. #6020
    Quote Originally Posted by Tentim View Post
    It's why once you leave a left leaning platform to an open one most left leaning ideology is eviscerated. It can't even acknowledge arguments against it much less debate them.
    "Finishing an argument when you're by yourself proves you were right."

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