1. #6181
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    The crazier and nuttier the better for 2024 election. After Roe vs. Wade was overturned, Michigan actually expanded abortion access. Whitmer axed a 1931 anti-abortion law. It can't be resurrected in the future.
    I just hope Democrats don't play with fire by helping extremist candidates win in the hopes that it will improve their odds in the general. They did it once before and were lucky enough not to get burned, but I'd rather not tempt lady fortuna.

  2. #6182
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I just hope Democrats don't play with fire by helping extremist candidates win in the hopes that it will improve their odds in the general. They did it once before and were lucky enough not to get burned, but I'd rather not tempt lady fortuna.
    Actually they did that twice and got burned the first time. It was how we got Trump to begin with.

    Remember the Clinton campaign was asking to have Trump elevated because they thought he was the most damaged candidate to run against and gave her the best chance of winning. Then she lost to her own patsy.

    They tried that tactic again later and it worked out though. But the first time they tried it helped Trump to win the primaries and then had her losing to him.
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  3. #6183
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatBlast View Post
    I could be wrong, but I think Edge- was talking about the push to have Trump as the GOP nominee, and it worked out poorly, but I am not super well versed on american political history so it could have been about someone else in a state level or what not.
    Not quite, he mentioned not getting burned.

    Trump was the first attempt and the DNC and the nation got burned hard for it.

    Then, the last election the Democrats were pushing all the hardcore MAGA candidates they could in the primaries for the same reason, because they saw them as damaged and extreme and would run off the voters. The Democrats actually succeeded and got what they wanted with that attempt because Trump had turned those talking points and attitudes so toxic it actually drove turn out against them higher.
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  4. #6184
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatBlast View Post
    I could be wrong, but I think Edge- was talking about the push to have Trump as the GOP nominee, and it worked out poorly, but I am not super well versed on american political history so it could have been about someone else in a state level or what not.
    No, I'm referencing the Democratic Governors group that was throwing their support behind more extremist/fringe candidates the last election. It paid off, but it was a huge risk. Fugus is right in that while it wasn't quite the same kind of concerted effort, this did blow up in Democrats faces in 2016 with Trump.

  5. #6185
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I just hope Democrats don't play with fire by helping extremist candidates win in the hopes that it will improve their odds in the general. They did it once before and were lucky enough not to get burned, but I'd rather not tempt lady fortuna.
    Not my preferred tactic. Some interesting numbers. Trump won Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania in 2016. Biden won them back in 2020. Trump won Wisconsin by 20k votes in 2016. Biden won it by 20k in 2020. Protasiewicz won by 200,000 votes. We saw formerly GOP suburban counties voting for her. She managed to get close in several white working class counties. Which was nuts.

    It appears, at least yesterday, Democrats wedge issue - abortion trumps all of GOP wedge issues combined - crime & economy & wokeness.
    Last edited by Rasulis; 2023-04-06 at 06:21 PM.

  6. #6186
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatBlast View Post
    Ah, I thought you meant long-term as in yeah trump won but the ship got righted, good to know, albeit I REALLY wish this wasn't an avenue gone down, you are gambling so much on the table for not a huge gain politically.

    Apologies @Fugus.
    It's fine, you were genuinely talking in good faith with no insults or any of that. No apology needed.
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  7. #6187
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Not my preferred tactic. Some interesting numbers. Trump won Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania in 2016. Biden won them back in 2020. Trump won Wisconsin by 20k votes in 2016. Biden won it by 20k in 2020. Protasiewicz won by 200,000 votes. We saw formerly GOP suburban counties voting for her. She managed to get close in several white working class counties. Which was nuts.

    It appears, at least yesterday, Democrats wedge issue - abortion trumps all of GOP wedge issues combined - crime & economy.
    Yeah. If Republicans want to keep campaigning on this issue, have at it. It's been fairly disastrous for them overall. I just don't want Democrats egging them on given the risks associated with losing any one of those bets.

    And hope that voters see that the Republican position on this issue is largely the same as their positions on a lot of other issues and start wondering why they used to vote for them.

  8. #6188
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Yeah. If Republicans want to keep campaigning on this issue, have at it. It's been fairly disastrous for them overall. I just don't want Democrats egging them on given the risks associated with losing any one of those bets.

    And hope that voters see that the Republican position on this issue is largely the same as their positions on a lot of other issues and start wondering why they used to vote for them.
    There are other signs of trouble for the GOP during the Wisconsin election. Dan Knodl (R) barely defeated his opponent Jodi Habush Sinykin (D) 50.9% to 49.1% in a special election. That's a heavily gerrymandered district with 83.6% white population.

  9. #6189
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Not my preferred tactic. Some interesting numbers. Trump won Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania in 2016. Biden won them back in 2020. Trump won Wisconsin by 20k votes in 2016. Biden won it by 20k in 2020. Protasiewicz won by 200,000 votes. We saw formerly GOP suburban counties voting for her. She managed to get close in several white working class counties. Which was nuts.

    It appears, at least yesterday, Democrats wedge issue - abortion trumps all of GOP wedge issues combined - crime & economy & wokeness.
    Don't forget, Dems also get to point at Republicans bullying the shit out of trans kids and generally just shitting on trans people in general. That'll help sustain the youth vote, absolutely guaranteed.

  10. #6190
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    There are other signs of trouble for the GOP during the Wisconsin election. Dan Knodl (R) barely defeated his opponent Jodi Habush Sinykin (D) 50.9% to 49.1% in a special election. That's a heavily gerrymandered district with 83.6% white population.
    Yeah, so I went into some Conservative spaces today to see what they're all saying and my god, the Doomers are giving my tingles.

    Between Kelly getting absolutely fucking Wholloped and a conservative WI SC seat lost as well as Knodl barely winning re-election for Darling's Republican Senate seat. Everyone is saying the general same thing:

    Republicans are fucked because of terrible policies.

    Their is like 20-25% of the base who are hardcore pro-lifers and if they switch toward a pro-choice platform, they immediately lose that 20-25% of the base.

    Then their is a large number of independents and moderates who are pro-choice and the overturning of Roe resulted in those people just voting straight D tickets now throwing everything into whack.

    Conservatives, meanwhile keep pushing these awful bills, like in Florida, and continue to try to ban it everywhere. Democrats are running on a heavy pro-choice message.

    Then look at the campaigns being won. Kelly had nothing to attack with to try and get that WI Supreme Court seat. Meanwhile, Janet discussed how she was pro-choice, pro-gun restrictions and her message resonated with more people resulting in a 10 point shellacking in a state that is usually won/lost by 1-2 points.

    The general consensus among Conservatives in those spaces is they've got no clue what to do. With an energized Dem party and poor policy, they don't think they're winning 2024 with Trump or any other candidate.

  11. #6191
    Quote Originally Posted by Taifuu View Post
    There is no reason to switch opposing ideologies if you do not plan upon voting along those ideologies. Otherwise, it is just a pointless publicity stunt, which is also not good.
    I just listed 3. I could list more.

    Your arguments about Idaho are the exact same arguments that were made about the Texas law that made its way to the Supreme Court and was left in place. Pro-choice has been the popular opinion regarding abortion rights for decades, it doesn't change the fact that the Republican party has been trying to repeal Roe v. Wade all this time. It also doesn't change the fact that, regardless of whether or not it goes through, Republicans WANT it to go through.
    You're trying to defend comparing Idaho (Trump +30) to NC (Trump +1.3) by talking about Texas? Just tell me you never had any intention of defending what you wrote. This is like X state is Y State, and let me talk about Z State to tell you why my fears are justified.

    And yes, I would point out that if a Republican performed the same stunt I would have the same opinion. Deceiving your voters is wrong regardless of who is doing it.

    Thank you acknowledging that this is a problem (pending upon her choices in your opinion at least, we can disagree there).
    I wouldn't have thought you'd hold this opinion, but I applaud sticking to your principles!

    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    Not surprised a conservative like you supports the act of defrauding voters for the sake of consolidating power though.
    Representatives aren't puppets of their national or state party structure. It also presupposes that she will abandon everything she ran on. Go back to my previous posts if you're confused about my thoughts in the event she abandons her core campaign issues.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  12. #6192
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    It also presupposes that she will abandon everything she ran on.
    Yes. This is what happens when someone declares that they're switching to the other party after winning a seat. They lose the benefit of the doubt that their word on their policy positions is worth more than a particularly loud fart.

    Especially when you swap to a Republican party that has been ramping up their anti-democracy, anti-LGBT, anti-democracy, and anti-woman rhetoric/legislature as they feel the noose of inevitable demographic changes tightening around their worthless throats.
    Last edited by s_bushido; 2023-04-07 at 12:19 AM.

  13. #6193
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Yes. This is what happens when someone declares that they're switching to the other party after winning a seat. They lose the benefit of the doubt that their word on their policy positions is worth more than a particularly loud fart.

    Especially when you swap to Republican party that has been ramping up their anti-democracy, anti-LGBT, anti-democracy, and anti-woman rhetoric/legislature as they feel the noose of inevitable demographic changes tightening around their worthless throats.
    So help me god if this turns into a tie-in with what we learned about Clarence Thomas, Joe Manchin, and Kristen Sinema all taking bribes from the billionaire conservative donor.
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  14. #6194
    /me looks up from sharpening guillotine

    Is it time NOW?

  15. #6195
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    So help me god if this turns into a tie-in with what we learned about Clarence Thomas, Joe Manchin, and Kristen Sinema all taking bribes from the billionaire conservative donor.
    I mean...I'm fully expecting media to start doing some serious digging into her to see if suddenly some huge debts disappeared out of nowhere. Or maybe there's some embarrassing family member that someone else discovered that she's trying to protect.

    It's absolutely possible she just got upset that Democrats were big 'ol meanies to her and not very nice at all and thinks that for some reason the party that wants to control her uterus is going to be any more pleasant. I don't find it very likely or reasonable, but quite possible.

  16. #6196
    Old God Captain N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    So help me god if this turns into a tie-in with what we learned about Clarence Thomas, Joe Manchin, and Kristen Sinema all taking bribes from the billionaire conservative donor.
    It wouldn't be as shocking as it would have been 10 years ago. Everyone has a price, and those 3 would (and have) sold out the American populace to line their pockets and there won't be any consequences for them. Just like there won't be for anyone else pulling them same thing that aren't normal Americans. Edge's post also reminded me that Kavanaugh is another we can add to the list of debts and such just disappearing with zero consequence.
    “You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.”― Malcolm X

    I watch them fight and die in the name of freedom. They speak of liberty and justice, but for whom? -Ratonhnhaké:ton (Connor Kenway)

  17. #6197
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    So help me god if this turns into a tie-in with what we learned about Clarence Thomas, Joe Manchin, and Kristen Sinema all taking bribes from the billionaire conservative donor.
    Manchin doesn't need to be bribed. He is what he is. A very conservative Democrat who wants to make money selling coal.

    Sinema was bribed by Wall Street lobbyists and McConnell's donor network.

  18. #6198
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Manchin doesn't need to be bribed. He is what he is. A very conservative Democrat who wants to make money selling coal.

    Sinema was bribed by Wall Street lobbyists and McConnell's donor network.
    Yes, I mentioned them because the guy who has been throwing money at Clarence Thomas was also giving them money too. I know about Manchin's history with Coal but that money could explain some of his other stances and Sinema we knew what was up when she started going to McConnell's rallies as a guest that McConnell cheered for screwing the US for his benefit.

    But to find out she flipped because some other billionaire has been floating cash her way and maybe she just wanted to retire after this one with a massive payday on her way out and a middle finger to the American public on her last term. Would not surprise me but also would be completely messed up as well.
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  19. #6199
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Charlotte Observer quotes.

    Wall Street Journal.

    It sounds like Democrats went too far in trying to force party unity on votes, without allowing for dissent. She's no trojan horse; she's been a Democratic politician in NC from 2007-2016. But maybe today's NC State Democratic Party isn't the same as yesteryear's. The big question is if she changes on abortion legislation, or just issues like school choice. The left here will have my sympathies if she flips after running on codifying Roe vs Wade as law.
    Follow the cash. If I were a betting person, I'd put lots of money on she got a huge donation from special interests and sold out her values. She's run on a VERY left wing platform for a long time. A mild altercation with the party she aligns her views with wouldn't cause her to do a complete 180 on EVERY SINGLE policy she believes in.

    It's not exactly some big secret that a lot of washed up celebrities who don't have cash flow jump down the right wing pipeline because it's the only way for them to gain relevance and secure an income. There's a lot of money in being an insincere right wing ally.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    It's absolutely possible she just got upset that Democrats were big 'ol meanies to her and not very nice at all and thinks that for some reason the party that wants to control her uterus is going to be any more pleasant. I don't find it very likely or reasonable, but quite possible.
    It's possible, but as I mentioned, if I was a betting type of person, I'd absolutely bet a lot of money against this.
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
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  20. #6200
    Herald of the Titans PickleballAce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unfilteredJW View Post
    /me looks up from sharpening guillotine
    Is it time NOW?
    I really look forward to what Average MMO-Champion UnfilteredJW's brand of Revolution looks like.


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