1. #6321
    The Florida House has approved a bill that would ban most abortions after six weeks, one of the nation's most restrictive. The bill now goes to Gov. Ron DeSantis, who has indicated his support.

    RIP to Florida but possibly they will be our martyr on the national level. If(?) DeSantis gets the nomination should should be a huge blow and should be mentioned every time in any debate. I yearn that this will stick with voters and never sleep that this is a direct connection of Florida to a National Ban.

    By Pew Research Florida by 56% favors abortion legal in all/most cases.. So once more right wing legislation against popular support.
    "Buh dah DEMS"

  2. #6322
    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    So once more right wing legislation against popular support.
    Shocking to no one. Abortion has like a 70% approval across the country? They don't give a shit. They have never cared about what people want.

  3. #6323
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Good luck proving MW wants to fuck teenagers.
    Everyone knows Matt Walsh fucks children. We also know that top tier politicians won't be held accountable for crimes. For as much as the right cries about how the rich and powerful are above the law and will never be held accountable, in their minds they're only thinking of the left wing types. When in reality it's every rich and powerful person, including (and especially) the right. That and Republicans continue to uphold laws that make it legal to marry 12 year olds. And it's Republicans, youth pastors, and other alt right personas that keep getting caught with kiddie porn or charged for diddling pre teens daily. It's just the random joes and politicians in lower level political positions that get arrested and charged.

    But anyway, seems the Texas ruling about the abortion pill was overturned, but it was also pushed back that it can't be received by mail, and you have to get the pill within a time period where you wouldn't even know you're pregnant unless you had good reason to believe you engaged in unprotected sex during ovulation. The time limit is extremely restrictive and unrealistic for people who say, used protection, didn't think they would get pregnant, and did anyway, but now can't get the pill because it's past the 3 weeks mark restriction for the pill. Oh and you have to have 3 doctors visits before you can get the pill.

    Republicans once again detached from reality. Well wait, they're not detached from reality. They're just the pro-birth party, and don't give a fuck about women, and only see them as incubators for future white supremacists and exploitable cheap labor.
    “Terrible things are happening outside. Poor helpless people are being dragged out of their homes. Families are torn apart. Men, women, and children are separated. Children come home from school to find that their parents have disappeared.”
    Diary of Anne Frank
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  4. #6324
    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    The Florida House has approved a bill that would ban most abortions after six weeks, one of the nation's most restrictive. The bill now goes to Gov. Ron DeSantis, who has indicated his support.

    RIP to Florida but possibly they will be our martyr on the national level. If(?) DeSantis gets the nomination should should be a huge blow and should be mentioned every time in any debate. I yearn that this will stick with voters and never sleep that this is a direct connection of Florida to a National Ban.

    By Pew Research Florida by 56% favors abortion legal in all/most cases.. So once more right wing legislation against popular support.
    Even Trump who put the 3 judges in that secured the end of Roe, isn't stupid enough to be openly "pro-life" because he actually wants to win a general election. DeSantis killing on his own presidential aspirations before announcing. And he's backed himself in a corner because now if he doesn't sign he won't have enough to make it to a general, ever. Considering he's really their only hope after Trump, just more evidence the joke of a party is going the way of the Whigs.

  5. #6325
    Elemental Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Good luck proving MW wants to fuck teenagers. Don't hold your breath.... Libs will try and try again to stain great MW's name and fail miserably each and every time.
    There is literally a clip of him saying that there is no such thing as a teenage pregnancy problem, but an unwed mother problem.
    And that 16 is the point in time where a "woman" is most fertile.

    If you could explain how someone could hold both of these positions and not want to have intercourse with teenagers, please be my guest.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  6. #6326
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    There is literally a clip of him saying that there is no such thing as a teenage pregnancy problem, but an unwed mother problem.
    And that 16 is the point in time where a "woman" is most fertile.

    If you could explain how someone could hold both of these positions and not want to have intercourse with teenagers, please be my guest.
    Let's be fair, shall we? We don't know Matt Walsh himself wants to fuck teens.

    He just wants them all to be sold into child marriages and raped into pregnancy because that's all he thinks women are good for.


  7. #6327
    Please do not contribute further to the success of the derailing operation. Matt Walsh is not the topic of this thread.

  8. #6328
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Indeed. If we force people to have children, we will have more faces to press to the grindstone. A perfect plan!
    And more soldiers in the fight against "communism."

    Dontrike/Shadow Priest/Black Cell Faction Friend Code - 5172-0967-3866

  9. #6329
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    Please do not contribute further to the success of the derailing operation. Matt Walsh is not the topic of this thread.
    Please just permaban people like him so we can have normal discourse.
    “There you stand, the good man doing nothing. And while evil triumphs, and your rigid pacifism crumbles to blood stained dust, the only victory afforded to you is that you stuck true to your guns.”

  10. #6330
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulForge View Post
    Shocking to no one. Abortion has like a 70% approval across the country? They don't give a shit. They have never cared about what people want.
    Yeah, but Floridians will vote overwhelmingly for DeSantis and ilk because Covid Vaccines are Cuban Communists and Fidel Castro overrunning America.

    Or something.

  11. #6331
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    Please do not contribute further to the success of the derailing operation. Matt Walsh is not the topic of this thread.
    When they derail the thread or knowingly post false information, would you consider that "Posts that contribute nothing"?

    When they post lies based on nothing but their own faith and then reject any facts that disprove it, would you consider that "Posting Conspiracy Theories"?

    If so, there is no need to warn the group, just go after the individuals whom are breaking the 2 rules above as they are already part of the rules.


    Also, you guys have repeatedly said that you didn't have the authority when it came to people breaking those 2 rules and just relied on the other users to fact check them over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. The derailments are quite literally a consequence of them being fact checked when they are allowed to break the rules without consequence like they have.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  12. #6332
    The Lightbringer tehdang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taifuu View Post
    I'm actually quoting your response to my post. This is really not a difficult concept to grasp. Please explain why, after commenting on an article where the first line mentions parental consent, you then had to "investigate" the law to find out about the parental consent part.
    I had to investigate a Senator's statement, because she mentioned Idaho "preventing young women in Idaho from exercising their constitutional right to travel to get the legal abortion care they need." Her statement did not mention parental consent, so which law she was referring to had to be guessed. Re-read my post to find my comments regarding her statement referencing a law, not your article referencing a particular law.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Hospitals and doctors are not expert in laws. They depend on the advice of their legal departments and liability insurance carriers. If legislators could not be bothered to write unambiguous laws which are clear to lawyers and insurance carriers, then the problem is with them. Not with the hospitals, doctors, or even the news.
    If journalists can't be bothered to check up on their assertions of ambiguous provisions, then the problem is with them. Simply put, certain partisans want to assert ambiguity because it helps their cause. Your argument consists in defending the deliberate publication of misinformation, simply because some doctors and hospitals believed it. And, like my post referenced, writing follow-up stories on the chaos as they checked with counsel and administrators. Conservative outlets have documented it since this started frequently happening last year:

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/...ing-condition/
    https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...c-pregnancies/

    It serves notice on pro-life citizens just how committed their opponents are to winning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Mothers looking for an abortion and no other option are tricked into being guilt tripped. If you googled where to find McDonald's, found a location, arrived, and then they accosted you to try and preach at you about the evils of McDonald's and why you should buy Wendy's, that goes beyond a "free speech" level and starts breaking into law-breaking territory.
    Going to a McDonalds and being discouraged from buying McDonalds products? Now, this would be more like going to a burger place and being shocked and surprised that cheeseburgers are spoken of more highly than hamburgers.

    It's why the California case was justified. The pregnancy crisis centers are a scam. They don't offer anything for mothers who do come and already want to keep the pregnancy. They send those people away, not offering any kind of pregnancy assistance. Their entire reason for existing is to try and guilt trip people into carrying pregnancies to term, as well as yes, accosting people from abortion clinics to do that very same guilt tripping.
    They do offer things for mothers who come and want to keep the pregnancy. Like ultrasounds, prenatal supplements, screenings, diapers, baby toys, blankets, and tons of other stuff. I swear that half the arguments against crisis pregnancy centers are people that have never been to one and just make up which services they aren't going to provide.

    The state has no business telling them that they're not pushing contraception or abortion hard enough. They aren't advertising subsidized abortions and then refusing to perform them when the pregnant mother enters through the doors. It's not like the state can barge into a private center and decide how much speech they're allowed to dedicate to providing for a baby despite financial troubles, and how much speech they must put out extolling first trimester abortion care. Just to quote from the Supreme Court case, the state has it's own problems with seeking "to suppress unpopular ideas or information" through their laws on speech. And the state exempted other providers from their law on speech.

    I will say, your obsession over a Democrat leaving out a single detail (which turned out to be irrelevant even then) is pretty funny when faced with the fact that the law is overall draconian and will most likely tie the hands of anyone who wishes to help the child out of a rape or incest pregnancy that the parents are forcing them to have.
    "It's just for minors and parental consent" is not just a little detail compared to "preventing young women in Idaho from exercising their constitutional right to travel to get the legal abortion care." The second leaves the reader to think all young women cannot travel to a different state to obtain an abortion.

    We call Republicans the "pro-birth" party for a reason. Because they don't care about life. When people die, it's their fault. When people suffer, it's their fault. When they go hungry, fuck em. When pregnant women need help, fuck em. But when they want to have an abortion? OH NO WE CARE SO MUCH ABOUT THAT FETUS HOW DARE YOU.

    Their own actions make their priorities clear. They don't care about life. They want to control women, and if they can fuck them over in the process.
    Too busy helping pregnant women with their needs to make time for how mad Democrats are that it isn't exclusively routed through the state.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    I won't give anyone who calls themselves "pro-life" the benefit of the doubt about them until they also support:
    Universal health care
    Free for the family and not district funded schools
    Free school lunch
    Guaranteed housing

    At a minimum. Until that they are only pro birth, suffering, and control.
    I never said you have to extend the benefit of the doubt. Just don't go on the internet arguing that the pro-life position is wrong and that they can't call themselves pro-life. That's just inviting circular arguments that say very little more than "My worldview is pro-abort, therefore other worldviews are wrong" or "Your worldview is wrong, therefore you can't choose labels within your worldview." I am even-handed in this: it also applies to pro-lifers that demand others identify as pro-death ("Because, logically that's what you guys are"). Thank you, just argue the position, don't also argue the taxonomy. It's worthless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    The shoe is on the other foot now. It is Democrats turn to use abortion to drive turnout, and it worked in Wisconsin. Protasiewicz won the major metro areas by 73% which was 3% higher than Biden victory. Her biggest gains were in medium-sized metropolitan areas (Madison, Green Bay, and Duluth, Minnesota, whose metro area has one county in Wisconsin). In those metros, she performed 7% better than Biden in 2020. She garnered 45% of the rural vote in the election which was 5% better than Biden in 2020 and the U.S. Senate race in 2022.

    The issue still drives the anti-abortion supporters. Kelly actually received 200,000 more votes than when he ran against Karofsky in 2020. He would have won if this was still 2020. Unfortunately for him, Protasiewicz received around 400,000 more votes than Karofsky.

    Younger voters and suburban voters showed up big time. The vote totals out of suburban-heavy Dane County was impressive. It's the state's second most populated county behind Milwaukee - but it produced more votes for Protasiewicz than Milwaukee, 240,000 vs. 233,000.

    She did significantly better than Biden in 2020 and Barnes in 2022 in all parts of Wisconsin, from major metropolitan areas to rural counties. She almost won ruby red Ozaukee county.

    That Texas judge did not do the GOP any favor with his decision. Hence the muted response.
    Not a universal rule. Georgia (a state Trump lost) voted for Brian Kemp over Stacey Abrams despite Kemp signing a heartbeat bill months before the election. DeWine in Ohio also voted for heartbeat bills, and won by 25 points (compare that to JD Vance who only won by 6 points). You can't say about either that their abortion positions really hurt them. The biggest turnarounds will be in places with full bans or no exceptions, with more varied responses on first trimester restrictions with exceptions.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  13. #6333
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I never said you have to extend the benefit of the doubt. Just don't go on the internet arguing that the pro-life position is wrong and that they can't call themselves pro-life. That's just inviting circular arguments that say very little more than "My worldview is pro-abort, therefore other worldviews are wrong" or "Your worldview is wrong, therefore you can't choose labels within your worldview." I am even-handed in this: it also applies to pro-lifers that demand others identify as pro-death ("Because, logically that's what you guys are"). Thank you, just argue the position, don't also argue the taxonomy. It's worthless
    I'm against:
    The death penalty, Punishment Sentencing (reform should always be the goal when jailing someone if possible) etc in justice.

    I am believe:
    That Universial Healthcare should be a goal across the globe with medicine technology shared freely.
    That School should be payed by for society and free for all that use it.
    That good housing should be a human right.
    That good food should be a human right.
    That any consenting adults should be free to love etc any other concenting adult.

    However, I think abortions are OK if it's best for the mother, and others involved. That means I'm "pro-death"? Hahahah

    That's just silly on the face of it. The reason "Pro-life" gets laughed at is because everything that they are otherwise against. The fact that it costs $18,865 on average to deliver a baby in the US, where Insurance covers "most" of it?
    Is fucking laughable, and anyone who calls themselves "pro-life" should be up in arms about that. Not abortion.
    Anyone who calls themselves "pro-life" should rail against medical dept.
    - Lars

  14. #6334
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Even Trump who put the 3 judges in that secured the end of Roe, isn't stupid enough to be openly "pro-life" because he actually wants to win a general election. DeSantis killing on his own presidential aspirations before announcing. And he's backed himself in a corner because now if he doesn't sign he won't have enough to make it to a general, ever. Considering he's really their only hope after Trump, just more evidence the joke of a party is going the way of the Whigs.
    Why do you think he signed it in a private ceremony at midnight on Thursday. You would think he would want to celebrate this monumental legislative achievement with full press coverage.

    Notice that he is not talking about it either the next morning. His biggest donors thought this was a bad idea and recommended that he did not sign the bill.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    If journalists can't be bothered to check up on their assertions of ambiguous provisions, then the problem is with them. Simply put, certain partisans want to assert ambiguity because it helps their cause. Your argument consists in defending the deliberate publication of misinformation, simply because some doctors and hospitals believed it. And, like my post referenced, writing follow-up stories on the chaos as they checked with counsel and administrators. Conservative outlets have documented it since this started frequently happening last year:

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/...ing-condition/
    https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...c-pregnancies/
    No. Hospitals and doctors do not make decision to withhold treatments. Lawyers representing the hospitals' and insurance companies' legal departments made the decision. If lawyers that specialize in liabilities could not figure out the laws, then the problem is not with the hospitals, doctors or press. The problem is with the lawmakers.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Not a universal rule. Georgia (a state Trump lost) voted for Brian Kemp over Stacey Abrams despite Kemp signing a heartbeat bill months before the election. DeWine in Ohio also voted for heartbeat bills, and won by 25 points (compare that to JD Vance who only won by 6 points). You can't say about either that their abortion positions really hurt them. The biggest turnarounds will be in places with full bans or no exceptions, with more varied responses on first trimester restrictions with exceptions.
    The impact will be felt the most in swing states like AZ, PA, WI and MI. Where a measly couple percent shift could change the whole dynamic. Barring a major catastrophe which could be blamed on Democrats, PA, WI and MI are pretty much solid blue as far as 2024 election is concerned.

  15. #6335
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    No. Hospitals and doctors do not make decision to withhold treatments. Lawyers representing the hospitals' and insurance companies' legal departments made the decision. If lawyers that specialize in liabilities could not figure out the laws, then the problem is not with the hospitals, doctors or press. The problem is with the lawmakers.
    It's such a bad faith argument from NRO.

    "Oh, the vague law doesn't specifically forbid that so it's fine! These people are dumb!"

    As if these hospitals have literally anything to gain by denying treatment, which seems to be the unacknowledged underlying belief required to come to the conclusion they're arbitrarily blaming these laws. Rather than, as you note, and has been noted by countless lawyers and legal experts, these laws are so vaguely written that many of the procedures NRO claims "aren't specifically banned" may indeed very well sill open the hospital to liability they cannot accept.

    It's a tactic we've long seen.

    It's liberals fault for not protecting abortion on deep red states when abortion was still constitutionally protected
    It's hospitals fault that they are worried about their own liability and find themselves in extremely difficult positions due to these vague laws

    Apparently it's literally everyone's fault except Republican lawmakers who pass vague, draconian laws like this and then do nothing when they see the suffering their actions result in.

  16. #6336
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I am even-handed in this: it also applies to pro-lifers that demand others identify as pro-death ("Because, logically that's what you guys are"). Thank you, just argue the position, don't also argue the taxonomy. It's worthless.
    I'd argue that it does help to point out these sorts of logical inconsistencies when they further prove, as you yourself illustrate here, that the so-called "pro-life" side is filled with absolute fucking morons who really don't understand the topic whatsoever.

  17. #6337
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I never said you have to extend the benefit of the doubt. Just don't go on the internet arguing that the pro-life position is wrong and that they can't call themselves pro-life. That's just inviting circular arguments that say very little more than "My worldview is pro-abort, therefore other worldviews are wrong" or "Your worldview is wrong, therefore you can't choose labels within your worldview." I am even-handed in this: it also applies to pro-lifers that demand others identify as pro-death ("Because, logically that's what you guys are"). Thank you, just argue the position, don't also argue the taxonomy. It's worthless.
    The dishonesty and malice in the taxonomy derives directly and intentionally from the dishonesty and malice in the position. Attacking the taxonomy is about demonstrating that. Which you know, but are fully willing to lie about to bait people in this thread.


  18. #6338
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    It's such a bad faith argument from NRO.

    "Oh, the vague law doesn't specifically forbid that so it's fine! These people are dumb!"

    As if these hospitals have literally anything to gain by denying treatment, which seems to be the unacknowledged underlying belief required to come to the conclusion they're arbitrarily blaming these laws. Rather than, as you note, and has been noted by countless lawyers and legal experts, these laws are so vaguely written that many of the procedures NRO claims "aren't specifically banned" may indeed very well sill open the hospital to liability they cannot accept.

    It's a tactic we've long seen.

    It's liberals fault for not protecting abortion on deep red states when abortion was still constitutionally protected
    It's hospitals fault that they are worried about their own liability and find themselves in extremely difficult positions due to these vague laws

    Apparently it's literally everyone's fault except Republican lawmakers who pass vague, draconian laws like this and then do nothing when they see the suffering their actions result in.
    Pretty much. I don't sign any job contract without running it through our attorney and professional liability insurance company. In fact, our insurance company insists that we do that. If they say that the contract is uninsurable or a legal liability, I am not going to sign it. I bet the same goes for hospitals when it comes to abortion related treatments.

  19. #6339
    The Lightbringer tehdang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    I think abortions are OK if it's best for the mother, and others involved. That means I'm "pro-death"? Hahahah

    That's just silly on the face of it. The reason "Pro-life" gets laughed at is because everything that they are otherwise against. The fact that it costs $18,865 on average to deliver a baby in the US, where Insurance covers "most" of it?
    Is fucking laughable, and anyone who calls themselves "pro-life" should be up in arms about that. Not abortion.
    Anyone who calls themselves "pro-life" should rail against medical dept.
    To the pro-life side, it's just sanctioned murder. It can't be the best for the mother, and others involved, because one of the others necessarily dies. But, to the point, to you it's just "reproductive health care" or "women's healthcare" or whatever y'all go with tomorrow. It's as useless to argue that you must call yourselves pro-death, since the baby dies, than to argue pro-lifers can't be pro-life, because of disagreements on welfare policy post-birth, etc.

    But, if it's any consolation, the abysmal pricing set up between insurance companies and hospitals and doctors for birth is also a travesty. Additionally, it perfectly compatible to be for cheaper hospital costs (and disagree on how to create it) while also saving perfectly health babies from termination prior to delivery. But that would sort of deflect from the topic, and I just saw this page as I'm reading it already has another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    No. Hospitals and doctors do not make decision to withhold treatments. Lawyers representing the hospitals' and insurance companies' legal departments made the decision. If lawyers that specialize in liabilities could not figure out the laws, then the problem is not with the hospitals, doctors or press. The problem is with the lawmakers.
    I just gave some examples of the exact reverse. The documentation on these past cases and their effects informs my opinions going into the present cases. I'm afraid the lack of trust is deserved, and more deliberations with the cases and interpretation must occur. Refer to my past posts on the matter, and the links.

    Memorial Regional declined a request for comment.
    according to 12 [anonymous] physicians practicing in antiabortion states.
    A spokeswoman for Broward Health, Jennifer Smith, did not directly address PPROM, and declined to make the doctor who treated Cook available for an interview. But she said in an interview that Cook was “not at risk” when she left the hospital after her water broke.

    “There was no indication she needed any interventional care,” said Smith,
    Grall added that doctors are playing "games and politics” in these situations, willfully misinterpreting Florida’s abortion ban when it clearly allows them to perform an abortion.
    This is just a sample of some of the disputations of fact, and unknowns in this particular case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    I'd argue that it does help to point out these sorts of logical inconsistencies when they further prove, as you yourself illustrate here, that the so-called "pro-life" side is filled with absolute fucking morons who really don't understand the topic whatsoever.
    The pro-life side doing this to the pro-aborts is just as foolhardy as the reverse. I just don't know if y'all got it by copying them, or they got it by copying you, or just independent development. It certainly involves some privilege. He who defines the terms controls the debate.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  20. #6340
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    But, to the point, to you it's just "reproductive health care" or "women's healthcare" or whatever y'all go with tomorrow.
    It's really difficult to take your argument in good faith when you refer to healthcare as "whatever y'all go with tomorrow." Just admit you don't give a shit about the mother's well-being.

    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    It's as useless to argue that you must call yourselves pro-death, since the baby dies, than to argue pro-lifers can't be pro-life, because of disagreements on welfare policy post-birth, etc.
    So you agree, they're not "pro-life," they're just "pro-birth" since they don't give a shit about its life after its born.
    Last edited by DarkTZeratul; 2023-04-14 at 08:41 PM.

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