SCOTUS removes Roe V Wade

[Twdft]

Early abortions are more often good family planning.

Yeah. Also do you know what happens when every woman can freely decide for herself to carry a pregnancy to term or not? Every single baby born is wanted and will be loved by her mother.

[Cthulhu 2020]

"It's obvious from even a cursory glance that they prey" is synonymous with "I shouldn't have to argue it because I personally feel it's obvious." No cleverness from me. The state still has no business telling them they're not pushing contraception or abortion hard enough.

Postpartum care by both state and private groups is widespread. Your inattention or ignorance of this is entirely your personal choice.

Active shooter drills, NRA terrorists? Alright, dude. Create your own megatopic combining gun control, second amendment rights and "terrorism," and abortion. I've seen enough frail threads holding together "You aren't allowed to sincerely argue X, because you also favor/disfavor Y" arguments.

This is all that really needs to be said about your inability to back up your own arguments properly:

The problem people have with crisis pregnancy centers is not that they're "insufficiently supportive of abortion."

The problem is that they want to be treated as healthcare providers when their primary goal is steering women away from particular healthcare options they politically disagree with, and do so by means that are unethical in any healthcare setting including but not limited to harassment of their patients and trafficking in medical disinformation.

No one is saying that anti-choice freaks shouldn't be allowed to voice their opinions or offer services catered towards women who don't terminate their pregnancies. The line is crossed when they resort to deceptive and unethical practices in order to insert themselves into a healthcare discussion when they have not been invited and then proceed to lie their asses off about contraception and abortion.

Crisis pregnancy centers are inserting themselves into paid advertisement google searches related to women looking for abortions. When women ask about abortive procedures and how much it will cost or how to get them, the clinics claim that they can't discuss such things over the phone and that the person needs to come in and be seen in person, and avoid telling the women that they don't offer such services even when it's clear the woman is looking for such services. When they have the woman in their "clinic" they then conveniently avoid answering any questions they have about abortion, and are instructed to use guilt trip tactics.

When all else fails, since these clinics are not actual medical treatment centers, they take the information the woman used to make an appointment (her name, address, phone number, etc) to bombard mail, emails, phone calls, etc. upon her by giving her personal information to pro-birth organizations. Because you know, the privacy of medical records only applies if you're an actual medical facility.

You don't see any of this as an issue because you agree with it, but again, anyone with two firing brain cells can identify how manipulative it is. People don't make appointments at pregnancy crisis centers because they've already made up their mind to keep the kid, considering how little is actually offered to women who've already made up their minds. If you really need help, I can do a youtube search for you and find all of the videos that demonstrate all of this as well as testimonials of former employees who describe how manipulative it is.

But every time I provide actual evidence to anything I say you disappear and never respond, meanwhile you demand everyone else provide evidence for your claims without ever actually providing any yourself.



But yes, the Republicans have a huge young voter problem on their hands. Gen Z is entering the economy with dire job prospects because the last 50 years of trickle down economics has led to extremely poor wages that means they can't afford basic life necessities. They recognize which party is supportive of worker rights and which is not. They go through active shooter drills anywhere from once a month to once per week, and are always hearing about school shootings on the news and are sick of Republicans doing nothing to protect them while sending useless thoughts and vapid prayers. Anti-abortion laws are wildly unpopular, and even a majority of Republicans are against outright banning abortion. That number becomes even higher among independents, the voters that Republicans desperately need to win over. They were expecting big gains in 2022 and barely got anything, and only because so many congressional seats ran unopposed. Many congressional Republicans only won their seats by triple digit votes And it's only going to get worse for them.

Tick tock.

[SoulForge]

Abortion is now a primary driver of young voters, who fear that an unplanned pregnancy could derail their life’s plans.

That is exactly the fear. Having a child is ludicrously expensive. And with the wealth divide and the rising prices its become more and more difficult. For republicans this keeps people poor and unable to socially move. This is the way for them.

[Calfredd]

We've been hearing this story since 2008. Guess what, 2008's young voters are going to be 16 years older in 2024, and somehow the current betting lines favor Republicans for 2024.

Couple reasons this happens - one is republican voter suppression,

Were you talking about imaginary reasons, hypothetical reasons, or were you just joking?

[s_bushido]

Were you talking about imaginary reasons, hypothetical reasons, or were you just joking?

Maybe he just attends the Tim "49 state landslide" Pool school of political polling and prediction.

[Draco-Onis]

We've been hearing this story since 2008. Guess what, 2008's young voters are going to be 16 years older in 2024, and somehow the current betting lines favor Republicans for 2024.

The last time republicans won the popular vote was 2004 under Bush, they have lost every election after that. That's why they rely solely on gerrymandering and voter suppression. The only reliable republican voting block is whites without a college education or less a shrinking demographic. There's a reason you guys are going full fascism even with our messed up system you can only rig it so much.

[Elegiac]

somehow the current betting lines favor Republicans for 2024

These the same betting lines that predicted a Republican sweep last year?

[beanman12345]

These the same betting lines that predicted a Republican sweep last year?

Yeah, it's pretty stupid argument, even more so considering the actual current betting lines have Biden winning re-election, though not surprising that dude's spreading bullshit.

Than you look at Kansas voting to allow abortion, a week ago Wisconsin voting in a majority left SCOTUS, have to be a real moron to bet on republicans in 2024.

[Ivanstone]

Identity politics is a the biggest loser of the past 2 elections.

True. The GOP ran on identity politics and got murdered despite the usual swing shifts you get in American politics.

[Xyonai]

True. The GOP ran on identity politics and got murdered despite the usual swing shifts you get in American politics.

And since no one running the show over there has any sort of introspection, they've just tripled down on it and deluded themselves into thinking people love their bullshit.

Like if their rhetoric and actions weren't actively harming people I care about I'd say let them keep spinning until they insanity themselves into irrelevancy.

[Endus]

True. The GOP ran on identity politics and got murdered despite the usual swing shifts you get in American politics.

The stupidity of "identity politics" as an accusation is that it applies to all sides of any given issue, so the finger inherently points right back at the one leveling the accusation.

Supporting LGBTQ+ issues is identity politics, but so is opposing them.
Supporting ethnic diversity is identity politics, but so is opposing them.
Supporting women's rights is identity politics, so is opposing them.

And if you just want people to shut up about it, the "everyone has the same rights" stance is firmly in the "support X group" argument's side of things; every right-wing attempt to deny said rights to someone is involved in supporting discriminatory preferential treatment to some group(s) over others, in picking which groups "win" and which "lose". "Just leave people alone" is the left-wing position in these arguments, not the right's.

Hell, it extends a lot further. Economic policy is "identity politics" because it affects social classes. Law enforcement involves "identity politics" because it doesn't always result in equitable treatment of all members of society. Etc. Everything, at some level, is "identity politics", and those saying it's "not a winning policy" are just being intentionally dishonest. They're using an empty slur-word that has no objective meaning outside their bubble, and within their bubble just translates to "anyone we decided is the 'enemy' to be targeted and harmed."

[Cthulhu 2020]

We've been hearing this story since 2008. Guess what, 2008's young voters are going to be 16 years older in 2024, and somehow the current betting lines favor Republicans for 2024.

Couple reasons this happens - one is republican voter suppression, but the more interesting one to me is how poorly run the Democratic Party is, and how quickly the liberal element of the party is willing to embrace wildly unpopular policies like Defund the Police. And of course their tendency to nominate incredibly uninspiring establishment candidates.

If Democrats focused on winning the elections they could do it easily - Obama provided the template. Focus on broadly popular policies like healthcare, education, use status as a minority to inoculate himself from attacks by the left and avoid the culture wars. Identity politics is a the biggest loser of the past 2 elections.

2008 it was because of the financial crisis, and that was about it. As more and more issues pile up such as bodily autonomy rights, poor job prospects, mass shootings increasing exponentially in the last 10 years, and multiple other issues, it's galvanizing more and more young voters.

Again, the funny part about you saying "this isn't happening" is that it HAS ALREADY HAPPENED and is continuing to grow as Republicans continue to give young people the middle finger. Republicans heavily gerrymandered and pushed tons of voter disenfranchisement, expecting those measures to give them big majorities in the house and senate in 2022, and then did surprised pikachu face when they barely won the house and failed to get the senate.

- - - Updated - - -

Identity politics is a losing strategy for the GOP. Most independent/swing voters just want to be left alone, and don't care about what others do with their bodies. The GOP is pushing identity politics hard because that's THEIR strategy. Notice how the trans panic is only a product of the last 2 years, and they didn't have a problem with it before?

The majority of America doesn't give two shits about people choosing to be LGBTQ, and they're getting sick of Republicans shoving the word woke in their face every time a black person or woman appears in a movie.

And lest we forget, when abortion rights are put to a vote by the actual populace rather than right wing politicians, even the most red states have voted to keep abortive rights. It's only the out of touch politicians who are pushing abortion bans.

People like Ron DeShitstain keep pushing fascist shit, and while they blare their "victories" from the rooftops as if the majority of the public supports it, his numbers are in the shitter. He's fighting against Disney and losing. People find the alt-right "anti woke" very distasteful. And the GOP is losing the culture war funded by Russia dark money.

[Xyonai]

2008 it was because of the financial crisis, and that was about it. As more and more issues pile up such as bodily autonomy rights, poor job prospects, mass shootings increasing exponentially in the last 10 years, and multiple other issues, it's galvanizing more and more young voters.

Again, the funny part about you saying "this isn't happening" is that it HAS ALREADY HAPPENED and is continuing to grow as Republicans continue to give young people the middle finger. Republicans heavily gerrymandered and pushed tons of voter disenfranchisement, expecting those measures to give them big majorities in the house and senate in 2022, and then did surprised pikachu face when they barely won the house and failed to get the senate.

- - - Updated - - -

Identity politics is a losing strategy for the GOP. Most independent/swing voters just want to be left alone, and don't care about what others do with their bodies. The GOP is pushing identity politics hard because that's THEIR strategy. Notice how the trans panic is only a product of the last 2 years, and they didn't have a problem with it before?

The majority of America doesn't give two shits about people choosing to be LGBTQ, and they're getting sick of Republicans shoving the word woke in their face every time a black person or woman appears in a movie.

And lest we forget, when abortion rights are put to a vote by the actual populace rather than right wing politicians, even the most red states have voted to keep abortive rights. It's only the out of touch politicians who are pushing abortion bans.

People like Ron DeShitstain keep pushing fascist shit, and while they blare their "victories" from the rooftops as if the majority of the public supports it, his numbers are in the shitter. He's fighting against Disney and losing. People find the alt-right "anti woke" very distasteful. And the GOP is losing the culture war funded by Russia dark money.

Also doesn't help that the mouth pieces of the Republican Culture ware are just... some of the most unlikable cunts in existence. Rhetoric aside the whole lot of them are needlessly aggressive, whiny, thin skinned, are physically incapable of shutting the fuck up, and so utterly callous about the lives and wellbeing of their fellow man. Like the 'Ooga big macho tough guy who doesn't care what the sissy Libs think about him!' facade works on impressionable children and adults with brain damage, and their scare-mongering can spook the old people and undecided voters, but that all worked better when these cunts were fringe and let more polite politicians repeat their shitty talking points and make them marketable to independent voters.

But now the Pools and Walshes and Carlsons and Greenes of the political sphere speak for them and, man, does it make them sound like a bunch of crazy assholes.

[Ivanstone]

And the GOP is losing the culture war funded by Russia dark money.

They're not funded by Russia dark money. The Russians do contribute to the GOP money machine but they're a drop in the bucket. The Russians are mostly just very good at spreading propaganda.

The real GOP money are people who are open about their funding like the Koch Brothers or people who are completely secret like Barre Seid. The latter donated 2.5 billion to conservative causes over his life time and almost no one heard of him prior to donating his entire company to a conservative political trust. And how many people like Seid are still out there? That's where the GOP's real money lies.

[Fugus]

They're not funded by Russia dark money. The Russians do contribute to the GOP money machine but they're a drop in the bucket. The Russians are mostly just very good at spreading propaganda.

The real GOP money are people who are open about their funding like the Koch Brothers or people who are completely secret like Barre Seid. The latter donated 2.5 billion to conservative causes over his life time and almost no one heard of him prior to donating his entire company to a conservative political trust. And how many people like Seid are still out there? That's where the GOP's real money lies.

A drop in the bucket but still a sizable drop.

Remember the NRA was caught funneling 50 million from Russia to Trump, McConnell's personal PAC and the GOP in general. The GOP's response to that was attempting to change the rules to make it easier for them to hide where the donors came from. And that was just from the NRA.

I could potentially see MUCH bigger donations coming from a host of other, lesser known, sources.

[Ivanstone]

A drop in the bucket but still a sizable drop.

Remember the NRA was caught funneling 50 million from Russia to Trump, McConnell's personal PAC and the GOP in general. The GOP's response to that was attempting to change the rules to make it easier for them to hide where the donors came from. And that was just from the NRA.

I could potentially see MUCH bigger donations coming from a host of other, lesser known, sources.

The Russians also donate and spread propaganda for left wing causes as well. Why? Because they want a less stable America. The GOP is very old and has had stable donors for decades. Any Russian help is recent but should be viewed as transient at best. Substantial amounts of American corporations donate heavily to the GOP because they're still the party of tax cuts and deregulation. Here's a question for you. Where is Disney money going in 2024? I can see them attempting to block a DeSantis primary but they'll likely still donate heavily to the GOP at all levels of government.

[Fugus]

The Russians also donate and spread propaganda for left wing causes as well. Why? Because they want a less stable America. The GOP is very old and has had stable donors for decades. Any Russian help is recent but should be viewed as transient at best. Substantial amounts of American corporations donate heavily to the GOP because they're still the party of tax cuts and deregulation. Here's a question for you. Where is Disney money going in 2024? I can see them attempting to block a DeSantis primary but they'll likely still donate heavily to the GOP at all levels of government.

I agree that Russia donates to both sides to try and destabilize us. But I really doubt they are donating equally. From a policy standpoint, GOP policies help them MUCH better in the long term than the DNC policies.

The GOP policies might have us heavily fund our military but largely doesn't care about it actually going to the soldiers or the veterans which can largely hurt their recruitment and morale. And their refusal to actually fund it properly with taxes causes our debt to skyrocket quickly and if given the ability to continue it can make it unsustainable in the future if unchecked. Plus they ruin our international reputation given how quickly they want to withdraw American aid and influence outside of the military doubly so after Trump has a large portion of them chomping at the bit to support Russian propaganda and policies. And have proven they do not care about honor their words or agreements and their policies are even seen as a joke outside of places that aren't heavily religious.

The GOP weakens us financially, weakens us internationally, and for all the funding they want to put into the military will weaken them as well as they bankrupt us and can't even afford to fund them while also leaving soldiers for dead when they are no longer useful to them.

If I were Russia, I would be donating to them and trying to support them HEAVILY as their goals benefit Russia as well, the only Democrat support I would give would be token and mainly to fringe groups with any main stream donations I made I would try and make sure became as public as possible to hurt them and cause more disruption.

[Adamas102]

I heard it a while ago. I can't really remember. It's useful in dealing with extreme, or passively extreme, positions like never favoring or voicing approval of legal restrictions on abortion related to gestational age.

It only seems extreme to you because your position is based on ignorance and malice.

It's a fantasy predicated on the false narrative that women get abortions frivolously and as such after some arbitrary point in time they should simply be forced to carry to term with no regard for any of the lives involved. Restrictions based on gestational age are a TERRIBLE idea because the people they really harm are those who actually wanted a child but due to unforeseen circumstances are in desperate need of the procedure.

Since the only people really getting late term abortions are those who discover that medical anomalies will put either the mother's or the baby's lives in jeopardy, what you're telling us with your hard-line "there must be SOME restrictions" position is that you WANT to torture people and devastate families, and you truly DON'T care about children's lives. All you care about is finding some way to punish people.

[Endus]

It only seems extreme to you because your position is based on ignorance and malice.

The "extreme" position he takes issue with is the idea that women should have the same right to self-ownership as men do.

That's it. That's the whole argument he has a problem with. That's all the nuance and complexity there is to consider, here. That's what's "extreme"; basic respect for women as human beings with the full rights and protections thereof. That's the step too far.

Edit: Sure, a lot of Western nations put gestational limits on abortion rights. Those same nations have also largely resisted marriage equality until recently. Hell, the UK was chemically sterilizing gay people just for being gay within living memory, including war heroes like Alan Turing.

The Western World was incredibly backwards and driven in large degree by centuries-old petty bigotries that it's only now starting to move past, really. That's not an argument that such gestational limits are sensible. It's a compromise made by people who still think of women primarily as baby factories rather than people, at some level, or made because they can get at least this much protection while those misogynist grognards hold fast against properly respecting women.

There is no secular argument or justification for gestational limits. It's purely religious extremist misogyny. Which shouldn't surprise anyone, because the Christian world has hated women for better than 1500 years. Something secular society is only recently starting to recognize and surpass.

[Rasulis]

A bit of the subject, but I think it makes for an interesting data point in the old debate whether people get more conservative as they age.

Millennials are shattering the oldest rule in politics

The pattern has held remarkably firm. By my calculations, members of Britain’s “silent generation”, born between 1928 and 1945, were five percentage points less conservative than the national average at age 35, but around five points more conservative by age 70. The “baby boomer” generation traced the same path, and “Gen X”, born between 1965 and 1980, are now following suit.

Millennials — born between 1981 and 1996 — started out on the same trajectory, but then something changed. The shift has striking implications for the UK’s Conservatives and US Republicans, who can no longer simply rely on their base being replenished as the years pass.

On a personal note, my wife and I are boomers. We definitely have become fiscally more conservative throughout the years. As business owners, more pro-business. Maybe even less sympathetic to those less fortunate and a bit more NIMBY. However, on some issues, we have not changed. We were pro-choice when we met, and we are still pro-choice now. If electing pro-choice politicians meant we have to vote for less-than-ideal candidates, so be it.