SCOTUS removes Roe V Wade

[Wewlad]

I'm not denying anything, I'm judging your morality.

Man, I missed this place. Where else can you get outrage and saying that lying is wrong?

You didn't link shit. We used to cut the tongues out of people for lying. Just be thankful we don't do that anymore (yet).

Yes, that is simply saying 'lying is wrong', not a load of edgy posturing. /sarcasm

My morality? Give me a break, your attempts at redirection are laughable.

[Edge-]

https://apnews.com/article/mississip...cea0e538579a02

Mississippi has seen a consistent rise in the number of families accepting public assistance for child care since lawmakers banned abortion in almost all circumstances, with the sharpest increase coming after a child support policy change in May, the state human services director said Friday.

Speaking at a legislative hearing on funding requests for the upcoming budget cycle, Bob Anderson, who leads the Mississippi Department of Human Services, said the upward trend in voucher enrollment means the agency might “hit a wall with state and federal money,” forcing parents to undergo a waiting period for child care assistance.

The department counted 31,532 families receiving those vouchers as of this month, up from 24,500 last October.

Will the Mississippi Legislature step up to provide additional funding to address the consequences of their policy and remain consistent with their "pro-life, pro-child, pro-mother" position? Worth noting -

Voucher enrollment further accelerated in May after Gov. Tate Reeves, a Republican, approved a recommendation from a council of early childhood administrators to do away with a 19-year-old policy that had forced single parents and guardians to seek child support from the other parent to be eligible for assistance through the Child Care Payment Program, which offers help to low-income parents.

Advocates had sought to change that policy for years, saying it deterred many single mothers from applying for assistance because, among other reasons, they feared identifying their former partners would lead to abuse. They also said that when parents couldn’t find child care, it prevented them from getting back to work.

That bit increasing enrollment is good, no objection there.

But let's see if they'll actually put their money where their mouth is, for once.

[Zython]

Yes, that is simply saying 'lying is wrong', not a load of edgy posturing. /sarcasm

My morality? Give me a break, your attempts at redirection are laughable.

Maybe if you actually considered lying to be a moral failing, you would be able to empathize with my indignation. The fact that you can't seem to do this shows that you don't consider it as such. Hence, the moral judgement.

[Wewlad]

Maybe if you actually considered lying to be a moral failing, you would be able to empathize with my indignation. The fact that you can't seem to do this shows that you don't consider it as such. Hence, the moral judgement.

One can consider lying to be a moral failing without favoring horrendous mutilation as the solution, that is something which shouldn't have to be said but apparently for you it must.

[Zython]

One can consider lying to be a moral failing without favoring horrendous mutilation as the solution, that is something which shouldn't have to be said but apparently for you it must.

Well, I'm open to more humane solutions, but they gotta learn somehow.

[gondrin]

https://apnews.com/article/mississip...cea0e538579a02



Will the Mississippi Legislature step up to provide additional funding to address the consequences of their policy and remain consistent with their "pro-life, pro-child, pro-mother" position? Worth noting -



That bit increasing enrollment is good, no objection there.

But let's see if they'll actually put their money where their mouth is, for once.

Ahh yes, the pro-life crowd is always pro-life until said life needs to be supported than it is "Pull yourself up by the bootstraps-life" crowd.

[Rasulis]

In addition to Ohio, Virginia is also going to be a testing ground for the importance of abortion in 2024 election.

Every seat in both chambers will be on the ballot in November. Governor Youngkin and the Republicans have made clear that if they win unified control of the legislature, they will move to impose that 15-week limit. Currently, abortion in Virginia is legal through the second trimester of pregnancy, which is about 26 weeks; it is the only southern state that has not rolled back abortion rights since last year’s Supreme Court ruling overturning Roe v. Wade. Youngkin tried but was blocked in the Senate.

Currently Republicans have the advantage in funding. Although Democrats are finally starting to invest in Virginia. With all the advantage that they have, Republicans failure to capture the legislature would raise serious questions about the their ability to overcome the majority support for abortion rights in the states most likely to decide the 2024 presidential race. It would also signal that almost any proposal to retrench abortion rights will face intractable resistance in states beyond the red heartland.

[Nymrohd]

What has really surprised me is the fervor among GOP politicians. I had the apparent delusion that most of them did not care so much about extreme positions on abortion, they just parroted those views because it got them votes. But even when all polls suggest the opposite and they have tangible evidence that keeping these positions may cost their seats, they are still at it. So they were always actual believers in these issues, not just playing politics.

You can see it with Trump who is trying to drop abortion as a topic because he has no real values and can see it is not a winning angle.

[Levelfive]

What has really surprised me is the fervor among GOP politicians. I had the apparent delusion that most of them did not care so much about extreme positions on abortion, they just parroted those views because it got them votes. But even when all polls suggest the opposite and they have tangible evidence that keeping these positions may cost their seats, they are still at it. So they were always actual believers in these issues, not just playing politics.

You can see it with Trump who is trying to drop abortion as a topic because he has no real values and can see it is not a winning angle.

I don't know, even ostensibly staunch "pro-lifers" like Mike Pence are calling for 15 week bans, which is a huge retreat from where a lot of them were. So I guess they fervently believe "life begins" at 15 weeks now?

- - - Updated - - -

But may I remind you that my posting here was referencing an article on to what extent doctors do or ought to offer input on restrictive bills on abortion, as regards some claims that these bills do not contain well-written exceptions to early-term abortion bans. I appreciate some conversational equity on the main body of the post, before launching into a tangent that you allege you haven't heard anybody say. Or maybe, you might quote exactly which sentences of my post you wish to respond to, because some "right to life" does not actually appear there.

Legislators shouldn't be involved in the decision at all. The very fact that they can't write bills themselves to cover exceptions proves the point.

[Endus]

I don't know, even ostensibly staunch "pro-lifers" like Mike Pence are calling for 15 week bans, which is a huge retreat from where a lot of them were. So I guess they fervently believe "life begins" at 15 weeks now?

Frankly, it just demonstrates that they're lying about their motivations. If someone were trying to pass laws to permit actual children to be murdered without consequence up to age 8 (to pick an arbitrary age), would you take a stance to try and argue them down to just legalizing child murder under the age of 3? Or would the entire idea be so monstrous you can't possibly endorse it at any age?

I don't see how compromise on an age would be a defensible reason for supporting child murder. So pro-lifers who claim to believe abortion is no different, who are perfectly willing to accept a certain week limit, clearly their issue isn't actually the "child murder" thing. I don't believe them when they say that. They contradict that premise in so many ways.

And it's not just the politicians. I don't think any meaningful number of pro-life advocates believe the fetus is a child and that it's being murdered. It's a point of dogma and propaganda they endorse because it gets them what they really want, but is so indefensible they won't come right out and say it, because they know how awful they are, at some level. It's nothing more than an attack on liberal views of womanhood, ideas like "they should be free to make their own choices".

[Rasulis]

What has really surprised me is the fervor among GOP politicians. I had the apparent delusion that most of them did not care so much about extreme positions on abortion, they just parroted those views because it got them votes. But even when all polls suggest the opposite and they have tangible evidence that keeping these positions may cost their seats, they are still at it. So they were always actual believers in these issues, not just playing politics.

You can see it with Trump who is trying to drop abortion as a topic because he has no real values and can see it is not a winning angle.

They are between a rock and a hard place. Without the anti-abortion faction support, they can't win primaries. So, they have to keep catering to the lunatic fringe. Trump is confident that he will win the GOP primary. So, he is already planning for the general election. The question is do people believe what come out of his mouth?

[Edge-]

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florid...natures-moody/

And Florida really doesn't want to put this to the voters on a ballot measure, preferring the safety of the Republican legislature deciding the matter for Floridians rather than allowing them to directly decide themselves. Even if the ballot measure has the sufficient number of signatures required to make the ballot.

If the amendment makes the ballot and is approved by at least 60% of votes cast, it would protect the right to an abortion up to the point the fetus can survive outside the womb.

Which seems pretty reasonable to me in terms of a generalized rule of thumb that leaves specifics up to medical professionals to determine with their patient in the moment, as every situation is different and legislating specifics is literally impossible.

Once again, Republicans really appear terrified of their own voters having a say on this topic and I'm sure we can all intuit why.

[Edge-]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/fig...et-2023-10-23/

Two Texas jurisdictions will consider measures this week to outlaw the act of transporting another person along their roads for an abortion, part of a strategy by conservative activists to further restrict abortion since the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade.

Commissioners in Lubbock County are slated to vote on the proposal on Monday. A few hours north, the Amarillo City Council on Tuesday will weigh its own such law, which could lead to a future council or city-wide vote.

Lubbock and Amarillo are the biggest jurisdictions of the 10 places in Texas that have considered restrictions on abortion-related transportation since the June 2022 end of Roe, which had granted a nationwide right to abortion. Five cities and counties in the state have passed bans.

Lubbock and Amarillo are both traversed by major highways that connect Texas, which has one of the county's most stringent abortion laws, to neighboring New Mexico, where abortion is legal.

Texas counties loving FREEDOM may be asking for your papers as you drive through soon. Are you smuggling illegal goods out of Texas and into another state? LUBBOCK AND AMARILLO COUNTY WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS AND WILL POLICE THE STATE AND FEDERAL ROADWAYS THAT GO THROUGH THEIR COUNTIES WHETHER THEY HAVE JURISDICTION OR THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO IMPEDE PEOPLE TRAVELING FREELY

The brain rot and path towards authoritarianism continues.

[Dontrike]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/fig...et-2023-10-23/



Texas counties loving FREEDOM may be asking for your papers as you drive through soon. Are you smuggling illegal goods out of Texas and into another state? LUBBOCK AND AMARILLO COUNTY WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS AND WILL POLICE THE STATE AND FEDERAL ROADWAYS THAT GO THROUGH THEIR COUNTIES WHETHER THEY HAVE JURISDICTION OR THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO IMPEDE PEOPLE TRAVELING FREELY

The brain rot and path towards authoritarianism continues.

There's no way they can enforce this, this will be struck down pretty easily.

[Twdft]

there's no way they can enforce this, this will be struck down pretty easily.

papers, citizen!!!

[Edge-]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/24/polit...men/index.html

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis falsely claimed last week that “no pro-lifer has ever argued” that a woman should be jailed for getting an abortion.

DeSantis made the claim while criticizing a rival for the Republican presidential nomination, Nikki Haley, the former South Carolina governor and US ambassador to the United Nations. DeSantis and Haley have sparred more frequently in recent weeks as they have battled to become the top alternative to former President Donald Trump, who holds a big lead in opinion polls of the party primary.

At a Thursday event at Winthrop College in South Carolina, DeSantis was asked if he took exception to anything Haley has been advocating on abortion-related policy, such as banning “late-term” abortions, encouraging adoptions, ensuring access to contraception and making sure women are not jailed for having an abortion.

DeSantis scoffed at Haley’s comments about preventing women from being jailed.

“Well, look, I mean, of course you’re not going to jail a woman. No pro-lifer has ever argued for that,” DeSantis said in remarks his campaign subsequently posted on social media.

DeSantis continued, “So when she’s saying that, she’s indulging media narratives. That’s a narrative; that’s not how it is. We have a heartbeat bill in Florida; has nothing to do with putting a woman – it’s ridiculous that that would even be mentioned. So I think she’s playing in to some of the stereotypes that the left uses against conservatives. Don’t accept the media narrative.”

Of course this doesn't actually need a fact-check because this is a trivially untrue and easily disproved claim. Donald Trump was notable in proposing this very thing in his initial campaign bid, only to be educated by anti-choice folks that it's an incredibly unpopular positions that they've long since abandoned.

Earlier this year, some Republican members of the South Carolina state House announced their support for a bill, the South Carolina Prenatal Equal Protection Act, that would have treated abortion as homicide and allowed the person who got the abortion to be punished as a murderer – and subjected to the state’s usual sentences for murder, ranging from 30 years in prison to the death penalty.

The Post and Courier newspaper of Charleston reported that the bill had as many as 24 Republican cosponsors at its peak. The bill never came close to becoming law – the number of cosponsors fell sharply after a backlash – but it was nonetheless a real proposal backed by some of the party’s elected officials.

You don't even have to look back very far to find support from Republican lawmakers and politicians for punishing girls and women seeking reproductive health care.

This is what's so frustrating about this whole affair. The anti-choice side is so casual with their dishonesty and so unconcerned with facts and reality. Are aborted babies really tossed into furnaces to power Washington D.C.? Obviously not, but that won't stop a woman testifying in front of a Congressional committee from making the claim without a shred of evidence!

The rank dishonesty is just something I continue to be unable to abide by. I can tolerate and understand people being wrong, or stretching the truth a bit, but just the blatant, casual dishonest and the lack of any concern when said dishonesty is pointed out is deeply frustrating. You cannot work with people who are so unconcerned with the truth and existing in the same shared reality as everyone esle.

[Masark]

There's no way they can enforce this, this will be struck down pretty easily.

And then they'll keep enforcing it anyway, just like fuckwits did for a decade after Lawrence v. Texas.

Delaying justice is highly effective at denying justice in this matter.

[Lenonis]

Of course this doesn't actually need a fact-check because this is a trivially untrue and easily disproved claim.

This is also why speaking in absolutely is almost always a bad idea. Just takes one incident to discredit your entire argument.The "funny" thing about this stand is jailing women for having abortions is the NATURAL outcome of the pro-life stance. If you truly and wholeheartedly believe abortion is murder and that a fetus is a life then a women getting an abortion is committing a criminal act. The fact they are saying this is not a reasonable stance is just saying their entire stance is just a lie.

[Edge-]

https://www.axios.com/2023/10/24/abo...wade-state-ban

The number of legal abortions in the United States increased in the year after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade. But they decreased sharply in states with total bans or strict limits on the procedure.

All Republicans are doing is forcing women to seek health care in other states. That's it. They're accomplishing absolutely nothing but penalizing women, and girls, seeking reproductive health care that the Republican party, notably not a collection of doctors, much less obstetricians, thinks they shouldn't have access to.

[Dontrike]

https://www.axios.com/2023/10/24/abo...wade-state-ban



All Republicans are doing is forcing women to seek health care in other states. That's it. They're accomplishing absolutely nothing but penalizing women, and girls, seeking reproductive health care that the Republican party, notably not a collection of doctors, much less obstetricians, thinks they shouldn't have access to.

Don't forget penalizing the poor and minorities.