SCOTUS removes Roe V Wade

[The Stormbringer]

-SNIP-

I wasn't defending anyone. My point was that maybe if we show them, expose them to the awful things that have come about because of their actions, some of them will be horrified and willing to try to improve things by not voting for Republicans anymore.

[Captain N]

I wasn't defending anyone. My point was that maybe if we show them, expose them to the awful things that have come about because of their actions, some of them will be horrified and willing to try to improve things by not voting for Republicans anymore.

They support violence against minorities, the support the suffering of women who "should have kept their legs crossed, the support the needless suffering of poor people. You've seen it here with #ShittyVoltron -- they aren't horrified by their actions. They want those people hurt -- because they're too fucking stupid to realize that eventually they're going to be the ones who end up on the receiving end of the shitty politicians they put in office.

[The Stormbringer]

They support violence against minorities, the support the suffering of women who "should have kept their legs crossed, the support the needless suffering of poor people. You've seen it here with #ShittyVoltron -- they aren't horrified by their actions. They want those people hurt -- because they're too fucking stupid to realize that eventually they're going to be the ones who end up on the receiving end of the shitty politicians they put in office.

Okay. Sure. Just paint all of them with the same brush. I'm sure there's not a single one that would be shocked and horrified about their own actions causing little girls to carry rape babies to term and be willing to change. I drop the subject. You win. Happy?

[Captain N]

Okay. Sure. Just paint all of them with the same brush. I'm sure there's not a single one that would be shocked and horrified about their own actions causing little girls to carry rape babies to term and be willing to change. I drop the subject. You win. Happy?

It's hard not to paint them with the same brush when they keep going on about rape. If their exception is that a woman must be raped to have an abortion they're coming right out and saying a woman has to be violated to have control of her own body. It's fucked up.

[The Stormbringer]

It's hard not to paint them with the same brush when they keep going on about rape. If their exception is that a woman must be raped to have an abortion they're coming right out and saying a woman has to be violated to have control of her own body. It's fucked up.

Yes? And? I'm not denying that it's fucked up. I'm not defending them. I'm not on their side. I think what they've done is disgusting and abhorrent and needs to be fought every step of the way until it's reversed. What is your point? That people are incapable of feeling remorse and changing for the better? That we should just always punish people and never give them a chance for redemption? Where are you going with all this?

[Captain N]

Yes? And? I'm not denying that it's fucked up. I'm not defending them. I'm not on their side. I think what they've done is disgusting and abhorrent and needs to be fought every step of the way until it's reversed. What is your point? That people are incapable of feeling remorse and changing for the better? That we should just always punish people and never give them a chance for redemption? Where are you going with all this?

I'm not saying we shouldn't give them a chance at redemption. However if they continue to vote for people that push for policies that harm people for no other reason other than to rile up a base of sociopaths then you've seen what they are. The question now becomes -- are they feeling remorse because the shitty behavior they advocated for is starting to affect them or their loved ones?

[The Stormbringer]

I'm not saying we shouldn't give them a chance at redemption. However if they continue to vote for people that push for policies that harm people for no other reason other than to rile up a base of sociopaths then you've seen what they are. The question now becomes -- are they feeling remorse because the shitty behavior they advocated for is starting to affect them or their loved ones?

Well yeah, fucking duh. Judge the shit out of them if they don't change. Judge them now for all I care. I just want people to understand that there is A CHANCE (albeit a small one) that at least a fraction of the people who caused this mess MIGHT be willing to try and improve it (since you can't fix causing pain and suffering to all the people who've already been affected).

As to the ones who will only change because it affects them or their loved ones... yeah. That sucks. It sucks for them, it sucks for their loved ones, and most of all, it sucks for everyone else. But if it causes them to change their vote, then the outcome is still better than it would be otherwise.

[Chonogo]

Yes? And? I'm not denying that it's fucked up. I'm not defending them. I'm not on their side. I think what they've done is disgusting and abhorrent and needs to be fought every step of the way until it's reversed. What is your point? That people are incapable of feeling remorse and changing for the better? That we should just always punish people and never give them a chance for redemption? Where are you going with all this?

I know you've been back and forth with others recently, but I wanted to be helpful and maybe point out who you think can be reasoned with. It's an old source, but pretty relevant, IMO. Some older users may remember this.

The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion

These are accounts from abortion clinics. Here's one, feel free to follow the link to find more instances. You can see the pattern.

“In 1990, in the Boston area, Operation Rescue and other groups were regularly blockading the clinics, and many of us went every Saturday morning for months to help women and staff get in. As a result, we knew many of the ‘antis’ by face. One morning, a woman who had been a regular ‘sidewalk counselor’ went into the clinic with a young woman who looked like she was 16-17, and obviously her daughter. When the mother came out about an hour later, I had to go up and ask her if her daughter’s situation had caused her to change her mind. ‘I don’t expect you to understand my daughter’s situation!’ she angrily replied. The following Saturday, she was back, pleading with women entering the clinic not to ‘murder their babies.'” (Clinic escort, Massachusetts)

These are the kinds of people you're dealing with.

[Endus]

Okay. Sure. Just paint all of them with the same brush. I'm sure there's not a single one that would be shocked and horrified about their own actions causing little girls to carry rape babies to term and be willing to change. I drop the subject. You win. Happy?

"You don't know, maybe they have a good reason to be whipping their kid with a belt."

If you're doing harmful, hateful shit, you don't get the excuse of "but I didn't know better". You can use that as part of an apology, after you've stopped that shit and disavowed it. Until then, if you're still being abusive and hateful, you should be treated accordingly, and I really don't give a fuck why they're being evil.

Some of us give a lot more of a shit for the victims they're harming. We can worry about the precious feelings of their victimizers way the fuck down the line after they've given up those views.

[Inuyaki]

Some of us give a lot more of a shit for the victims they're harming. We can worry about the precious feelings of their victimizers way the fuck down the line after they've given up those views.

THANK YOU!
This whole "they didn't mean to", "they didn't know", etc... fuck it, they are NOT the victims here. If you are so gullible, that is a you problem. There still happened REALLY BAD STUFF because of you.

[The Stormbringer]

"You don't know, maybe they have a good reason to be whipping their kid with a belt."

If you're doing harmful, hateful shit, you don't get the excuse of "but I didn't know better". You can use that as part of an apology, after you've stopped that shit and disavowed it. Until then, if you're still being abusive and hateful, you should be treated accordingly, and I really don't give a fuck why they're being evil.

Some of us give a lot more of a shit for the victims they're harming. We can worry about the precious feelings of their victimizers way the fuck down the line after they've given up those views.

Again, I'm not talking about "worrying about the precious feelings of the victimizers", I'm talking about redeeming those who can be redeemed. OBVIOUSLY we try to help the people who need to be helped first and we keep at it until things are better, but part of that process can be winning over the few people who CAN BE won over and converting them to our side.

EDIT: To clarify, again, I'm not trying to protect these people. I am simply aware of the fact that if all you do is ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK one side of an issue without allowing them an out, instead of changing their ways and becoming a better person, they're more likely to double down and keep doing heinous shit. There has to be an escape route. Not to say changing will absolve them of their sins, but it's a hell of a lot better than letting them continue as they are. So that's where all this came from, that's why I said, "Show this to all of them and maybe you'll convince some of them to change."

[Endus]

Again, I'm not talking about "worrying about the precious feelings of the victimizers", I'm talking about redeeming those who can be redeemed. OBVIOUSLY we try to help the people who need to be helped first and we keep at it until things are better, but part of that process can be winning over the few people who CAN BE won over and converting them to our side.

EDIT: To clarify, again, I'm not trying to protect these people. I am simply aware of the fact that if all you do is ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK one side of an issue without allowing them an out, instead of changing their ways and becoming a better person, they're more likely to double down and keep doing heinous shit. There has to be an escape route. Not to say changing will absolve them of their sins, but it's a hell of a lot better than letting them continue as they are. So that's where all this came from, that's why I said, "Show this to all of them and maybe you'll convince some of them to change."

I've been explicitly allowjng them an out. I'm just not willing to waste my time and effort trying to "save" them. If they want to drop the act and come back to reaity and give up being hateful, abusive shitheads, we can start that process. If they're not volunteering of their own free will, malice is presumed and we should act accordingly.

Imagine you were making this argument about Nazis. Because it's the same damned thing. No, we can safely presume they're terrible people just for what they stand for. We don't have to "save" them. We have to protect the vulnerable from them.

I could not care less about the hardships the victimizers might face as society rejects their positions wholesale. They've earned that reprobation. I have no interest whatsoever in "saving" any of them, not unless they come to me (figuratively) admitting fault first.

[The Stormbringer]

-SNIP-
I could not care less about the hardships the victimizers might face as society rejects their positions wholesale. They've earned that reprobation. I have no interest whatsoever in "saving" any of them, not unless they come to me (figuratively) admitting fault first.

That... yeah, that's fair. I can agree with that. Seems like we're in the same chapter if not on the same page. Certainly, them admitting fault first before you try to offer an olive branch makes sense to me. Thank you for clarifying on your end as well.

[gondrin]

I wasn't defending anyone. My point was that maybe if we show them, expose them to the awful things that have come about because of their actions, some of them will be horrified and willing to try to improve things by not voting for Republicans anymore.

It needs to happen directly to them. Right now, for a lot of those people, it is happening to people they don't like to begin with so they are fine with it.

[Jester Joe]

It needs to happen directly to them. Right now, for a lot of those people, it is happening to people they don't like to begin with so they are fine with it.

I mean, that was the major lesson I feel like that came out of COVID alone. People thinking it wasn't that bad until it's their loved ones.

In an ideal world, yeah it would be lovely if people can just be shown what the major issues are of their idea, but we also live in a world where if you truly care about these topics you can just look it up and do some research at least.

[Edge-]

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-...urt-rcna103612

This week, a court hearing in Alabama exposed a new constitutional landmine in the abortion conflict: whether prosecutors from conservative states can punish people for abortions that take place in progressive ones. And the deep ambiguities raised in this case may ultimately be settled by a conservative U.S. Supreme Court.

After the Supreme Court decimated abortion rights last year, Alabama Attorney General Steve Marshall proclaimed that organizations that helped Alabama abortion seekers access services out of state could face criminal conspiracy charges in Alabama. In July, two reproductive health centers and the Yellowhammer Fund, which provides support to low-income abortion seekers, sued Marshall, arguing that the prosecutions he outlined would be plainly unconstitutional. A conspiracy prosecution, they argued, could threaten speech protected under the First Amendment; it could curtail the constitutional right to travel; and it could violate the full faith and credit clause, which requires that state courts respect other states’ laws and court judgments.

Republican extremism on this subject continues, with Republican officials in states continuing to push to police peoples actions and activities in other states.

Absolutely petty authoritarian nonsense.

And don't worry, Texas is getting in on the action too, it's not going to let Alabama have all the fun - https://abc13.com/texas-abortion-law...-the/13740276/

More than a year after Roe v. Wade was overturned and abortion was mostly outlawed in Texas, anti-abortion groups are getting more aggressive -- and creative -- in trying to stop women from getting the procedure out of state. New laws currently on the table in many smaller Texas towns would make it illegal to even drive through the city or county for the purpose of an abortion.

Two cities and counties in Texas have already passed the measure, and many more are set to vote on a similar version soon, according to the Texas Tribune. The strategy, engineered by Right to Life group architects of SB 8, a.k.a. the heartbeat bill, comes amidst growing frustrations about the number of women who are going out of state to circumvent the ban. There are questions about what would be enforced: private citizens can sue any group or party they believe to be in violation of the law. But abortion law expert Mary Ziegler with the University of California at Davis says the creators of SB8 are specifically using these ordinances as legal testers.

Some towns in Texas want to make it illegal to drive through the town if your ultimate destination is to get reproductive health care in another state.

Again, for wanting a "small government", Republicans keep pushing to greatly expand the power of state governments well beyond their borders. Almost like they're all ultimately a bunch of petty authoritarians that want to control what people can do with their bodies.

It's a wonder that when the issue is actually presented to voters that Republicans consistently get their asses kicked up and down the courts, even when they try to dishonestly misrepresent the issue.

[Twdft]

some towns in texas want to make it illegal to drive through the town if your ultimate destination is to get reproductive health care in another state.

papers, citizen!

[RampageBW1]

Pretty soon, they'll want to try to stop women from moving out of their state because they think the women might need to have an abortion.

[Edge-]

Pretty soon, they'll want to try to stop women from moving out of their state because they think the women might need to have an abortion.

Maybe they'll need a chaperone if a woman wants to travel? You know, her fiance/husband or an adult male within her family like a brother or cousin or even nephew or something.

[Chonogo]

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-...urt-rcna103612



Republican extremism on this subject continues, with Republican officials in states continuing to push to police peoples actions and activities in other states.

Absolutely petty authoritarian nonsense.

And don't worry, Texas is getting in on the action too, it's not going to let Alabama have all the fun - https://abc13.com/texas-abortion-law...-the/13740276/

I'm sure you know I'd respond to this with my usual embarrassment for my state.

This Steve Marshall dude is a fucking idiot tool that Alabama deserves.

He's the same AG that just argued in front of a federal court, that the newly created Alabama congressional map the Alabama GOP created should be upheld because...giving black people a 2nd majority district like the Supreme Court demanded would be "affirmative action in redistricting."