SCOTUS removes Roe V Wade

[s_bushido]

You weren't personally a slave, so how dare you have an opinion on slavery! Decide for yourself if you wish to own slaves. Or murder. Or if stealing is wrong.

...how detached from reality do you have to be to not realize that "states' rights!" was literally the rallying cry of those who wanted to continue the practice of slavery. And yet here you are, "sticking with the states." You're beyond parody at this point.

[tehdang]

Republicans are apparently already planning on trying to institute a total ban on abortion at the federal level, with Lankford and Ernst spearheading the effort.

I heard 6 weeks (WaPo)

A group of Republican senators has discussed at multiple meetings the possibility of banning abortion at around six weeks, said Sen. James Lankford (Okla.), who was in attendance and said he would support the legislation. Sen. Joni Ernst (R-Iowa) will introduce the legislation in the Senate, according to an antiabortion advocate with knowledge of the discussions who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal strategy. Ernst did not respond to a request for comment.

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Abortion, unlike slavery, murder, or stealing, doesn't affect anyone else.

The "someone else" of abortion didn't really get a vote, and the prior trimester system and bans try, at some level, to weigh the rights of the someone else. It is expressly the someone else that makes this issue troublesome.

...how detached from reality do you have to be to not realize that "states' rights!" was literally the rallying cry of those who wanted to continue the practice of slavery. And yet here you are, "sticking with the states." You're beyond parody at this point.

I have to agree with people that wanted to continue slavery to have an opinion on where current matters should be decided?

You can choose to put your faith in the advocates of slavery. Don't tell me that I'm not allowed to disagree.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I heard 6 weeks (WaPo)

On average women only discover they are pregnant at around 5-6 weeks. "My period is late" and all that.

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I have to agree with people that wanted to continue slavery to have an opinion on where current matters should be decided?

You can choose to put your faith in the advocates of slavery. Don't tell me that I'm not allowed to disagree.

You seem to have completely missed the point that if slavery had been left to the states to decide... there would still be slavery.

[Trifle]

6 weeks is ridiculous for anyone that has any understanding of biology. It's effectively a total ban in all but name.

[tehdang]

On average women only discover they are pregnant at around 5-6 weeks. "My period is late" and all that.

So it's not a "total ban on abortion," and you would assert it amounts to one or it effectively is one?

You seem to have completely missed the point that if slavery had been left to the states to decide... there would still be slavery.

You told me that states rights was an argument that pro-slavery people made. That I'm detached from reality for arguing that abortion laws should be decided at the state level. I don't see how you arrogate to yourself the right to force me to agree with slavers.

You're choosing to miss the point that you hold a great number of moral opinions on issues that affect others. Calling abortion special, like there's no possibility or debate on the other participant in the abortion, is asinine.

[Edge-]

I'll stick with states

How can the states in any way accurately represent the values of all their residents, though? I mean, you've said this is a question of values, right? You feel the federal level is too broad, but somehow the state level is "just right".

I'm curious to know what the threshhold is for this, since it doesn't appears to be based on land mass or population size - given the radical differences. Is it the mention of states in the 10 Amendment? If so I'll kindly point out that it also mentions "to the people.", who are the very individuals whose values are in question.

It's just weird hearing the conservative argument against limited government by eliminating what is the bedrock of a great many personal freedoms and raising the specter of big government infiltrating our personal lives even further.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

So it's not a "total ban on abortion," and you would assert it amounts to one or it effectively is one?

I'm just stating how ridiculous it is to put a 6 week clock on it. Discover your pregnant at 5.5 weeks and you have 3 days to decide if you want to keep it. I have a feeling that would force a lot of women to make a decision to abort they might not have made if they weren't fighting against the clock.

Or discover at 6 weeks and be told "Oh daaaang...if only you got here yesterday."

You told me that states rights was an argument that pro-slavery people made.

No I didn't bruh.

That I'm detached from reality for arguing that abortion laws should be decided at the state level.

I also didn't say you were detached from reality. But you saying that I did say that is a strong argument that you might be.

I don't see how you arrogate to yourself the right to force me to agree with slavers.

Again, Never said anything like that.

You're choosing to miss the point that you hold a great number of moral opinions on issues that affect others. Calling abortion special, like there's no possibility or debate on the other participant in the abortion, is asinine.

The other "participant" is not capable of having an opinion on the matter. You're inserting your opinion on the matter in it's stead.

[cubby]

I don't think a national solution makes any sense, because it is a question of values. Full ban, 6 weeks, 15 weeks, 20 weeks, second trimester, third trimester, all the way up to crowning/delivery, exceptions, funding, medical certifications, oversight.

The only solution is a national one - no ban, ever, at all. Period.

In no other circumstance in the United States is a person required to sacrifice their body to save another. That is the beginning and the end of the conversation.

[Jastall]

I heard 6 weeks (WaPo)

6 weeks is an effective ban in the vast majority of circumstances. At best it forces the choice on the woman in a very short notice which cannot honestly be seen as a good thing. At worst the pregnancy is discovered too late to act upon it. That is not a reasonable solution.

[s_bushido]

I have to agree with people that wanted to continue slavery to have an opinion on where current matters should be decided?

You can choose to put your faith in the advocates of slavery. Don't tell me that I'm not allowed to disagree.

When you argue that states' rights supersede the rights of citizens of this country, that's exactly what you're doing. I'm sorry if you're incapable of comprehending that.

And if you don't believe that abortion is somehow "special," feel free to name another case where a person is required by law to sustain the life of another using their own body. I'll wait.

[anveena]

I don't think a national solution makes any sense, because it is a question of values. Full ban, 6 weeks, 15 weeks, 20 weeks, second trimester, third trimester, all the way up to crowning/delivery, exceptions, funding, medical certifications, oversight.

A national ban makes total sense. It will save the most amount of lives and not let people just go to the state next door to get an abortion done.

Hopefully the GOP can pull off wins in 2022/24 and get this done.

[s_bushido]

A national ban makes total sense. It will save the most amount of lives and not let people just go to the state next door to get an abortion done.

Hopefully the GOP can pull off wins in 2022/24 and get this done.

A poster so comically transparent that it belongs in one of those "wakes up in a pregnant woman's body and realizes how utterly ignorant and stupid he's been his entire life" sort of movies.

[szechuan]

BREAKING: Louisiana Republicans have voted HB 813 out of committee (7-2), defining a fertilized egg as a human. HB 813 makes abortion at any point a homicide, with no exception for minors, rape, incest, or ectopic pregnancies. This is beyond horrific.
https://twitter.com/QasimRashid/stat...H3diqy7zg&s=19

[Jastall]

BREAKING: Louisiana Republicans have voted HB 813 out of committee (7-2), defining a fertilized egg as a human. HB 813 makes abortion at any point a homicide, with no exception for minors, rape, incest, or ectopic pregnancies. This is beyond horrific.
https://twitter.com/QasimRashid/stat...H3diqy7zg&s=19

Oh, that's the beginning. The iron is hot and it will be struck with extreme prejudice. Expect more laws like this, attempts to stop people from going out of state to get an abortion, and a push for nationwide ban as soon as humanly possible.

But remembers guys, it's all about state's right /s.

[Azadina]

Same right back at you. If none of those questions on proposed legislation matter to you, and you don't even regard it as a question of values, then maybe you're the impediment to compromise

Why don't you go fucking compromise on your OWN RIGHTS?

[Endus]

You're choosing to miss the point that you hold a great number of moral opinions on issues that affect others. Calling abortion special, like there's no possibility or debate on the other participant in the abortion, is asinine.

The "other participant?". The doctor?

You can't mean the fetus. I'm not going to entertain religious mythology as a valid argument for restricting women's rights. Religion is never a valid basis for legislation. Any such is religious subjugation of everyone who does not share that faith.

And no; there is not a single argument about treating the fetus this way that does not boil down to a religious doctrine at some level.

Spare me the lunacy of enraged religious bigots who seek to subjugate women into breeding livestock.

[Xyonai]

The biggest issue with these 'But the states tho!' arguments is that it's fundamentally flawed to give individual states power over civil rights legislation (And I found the right to an abortion as a 'Civil right' because it's an extension of one's bodily autonomy and very directly affects a specific demographic).

Not everyone has the means or the opportunity to just pick and choose what states they want to live in, so getting unlucky in the game of 'which civil liberties will you be granted/denied in this plot of land!' just compounds the problem

[Kaleredar]

The biggest issue with these 'But the states tho!' arguments is that it's fundamentally flawed to give individual states power over civil rights legislation (And I found the right to an abortion as a 'Civil right' because it's an extension of one's bodily autonomy and very directly affects a specific demographic).

Not everyone has the means or the opportunity to just pick and choose what states they want to live in, so getting unlucky in the game of 'which civil liberties will you be granted/denied in this plot of land!' just compounds the problem

Again, it's all just a thin "justification" for unilaterally applying their own morality. And they will apply which laws they see fit, or don't see fit, in order to reinforce it.

When states do things they don't like they are the first to clamor that the federal government should stop them. This was especially prevalent under Trump. Now that they control neither the Executive nor legislative branches, they're defaulting to the judicial branch to exert that control for them.

[zorkuus]

BREAKING: Louisiana Republicans have voted HB 813 out of committee (7-2), defining a fertilized egg as a human. HB 813 makes abortion at any point a homicide, with no exception for minors, rape, incest, or ectopic pregnancies. This is beyond horrific.
https://twitter.com/QasimRashid/stat...H3diqy7zg&s=19

Religion is a mental illness.

[Flarelaine]

I'm just stating how ridiculous it is to put a 6 week clock on it. Discover your pregnant at 5.5 weeks and you have 3 days to decide if you want to keep it.

... not to mention scheduling an appointment.