1. #7481
    https://www.texastribune.org/2024/01...-of-the-union/

    Political invitations to the SOTU are beginning. Joe Biden is inviting Kate Cox, whose story occupied quite a few pages in this thread. That means that access to reproductive health care and bodily autonomy are going to be topics for the SOTU, which makes a lot of sense given the state of the topic in politics right now. It also sets up the Republican's to need to address that topic in the response to the SOTU. I wonder if they'll put Sarah Huckabee Sanders up again to double down on the culture wars and wax poetic about the parties national ambitions for abortion bans and bans on contraceptives!

  2. #7482
    https://www.9news.com/article/news/l...a-56f710f82e53

    Republican State Rep. Richard Holtorf, a candidate for Colorado’s 4th Congressional District, disclosed Friday that he financed an abortion for one of two girlfriends he impregnated, saying it helped her “live her best life.”

    Holtorf, who represents the Eastern Plains, made the comment while discussing a resolution by Democrats marking the landmark Roe v. Wade decision that established the right to an abortion.

    “I respected her rights and actually gave her money to help her through her important, critical time so she could live her best life,” Holtorf said.

    Holtorf was a sponsor of a failed 2020 measure to ban abortion in Colorado after 22 weeks. In 2022, Holtorf made headlines when he dropped his handgun in the state Capitol while rushing to the floor to cast a vote against abortion rights.

    Holtorf did not appear to recognize the disconnect between his statement lauding the benefits of abortion access for his pregnant girlfriend and his staunch opposition to abortion rights, which led him to call abortion rights supporters “godless heathens” last year.

    He went on to tell House colleagues Friday that he “had another beautiful woman” and got her pregnant, as well. That woman, Holtorf said, chose not to have an abortion but rather give up the child for adoption, a choice he praised.

    “I have so much lived experience, you have no idea,” Holtorf said.

    Holtorf later issued a series of statements walking back and ultimately disavowing his words on the House floor.

    Holtorf initially declined to tell 9NEWS when and where he paid for his girlfriend’s abortion.

    “You will have to come see me here to discuss this is a personal matter and a personal life story,” Holtorf said via text message.
    Gosh there's so much to unpack here.

    1. "Every abortion is immoral except mine." - just explicitly stating that on his part. Absolutely no self awareness from an anti-abortion crusader.

    2. "I'm pro-choice but only when it impacts me" - Similar to the above, fuck everyone else as long as I got mine!

    3. For a guy banging on about morality and who appears to reference the Bible and all he sure seems to engage in a lot of unmarried sex, and unprotected as well.

    Honestly, him outing that he has a kid with another woman he isn't married to because he got so buttmat he shut off his brain might be the funniest part.

    At its core, the loudest voices on this topic continue to be the most hypocritical voices on this topic. Strange, innit?

  3. #7483
    anyone else reading that article come across the part where he says "he had another beautiful woman" and just find that overall turn of phrase incredibly off putting? Like, hey, lets just talk about the women I banged like they're disposable commodities or something.

  4. #7484
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    anyone else reading that article come across the part where he says "he had another beautiful woman" and just find that overall turn of phrase incredibly off putting? Like, hey, lets just talk about the women I banged like they're disposable commodities or something.
    Bro, are you even a man? Men are required to brag about how many hot bitches we sack, bro. That's how you earn your man-card and make sure other men know you're masculine and virile - which is really important that you let other men know your penis works.

    Yeah, Republicans are weird. I guess he's trying to pay the woman a complement but I'm unsure what her looks have to do with anything.

    I mean dude is basically admitting he's a deadbeat dad that didn't want to raise his own kid lol. Zero self awareness. And we're supposed to be lectured by this fuckin goof on the topic.

  5. #7485
    https://kfor.com/news/oklahoma-legis...contraception/

    A freshman Senator has filed a bill that would charge Oklahoma women who get an abortion with murder.

    Senate Bill 1729, also known as the Abolition of Abortion Act, follows the “image of God.”

    “It’s very simple. It seeks to take the exception for prenatal homicide, which is abortion, out of the homicide code and make it give equal protection under the law to all lives from the moment of conception to natural death,” stated Senator Dusty Deevers, R-Elgin.

    The proposal states an abortion can only be justified if it’s to save the mother’s or unborn child’s life. The other exception is a spontaneous miscarriage.

    Reasons that don’t fall under that umbrella, like rape and incest, would punish the mother.

    The bill would charge her with murder.

    “We want people to get the care they need. But when we create these very limited and dangerous bills, with these limited exceptions, we know that has a true impact on just health care in general and pregnancy outcomes,” stated the American Civil Liberties Union of Oklahoma Executive Director and Chair for the Oklahoma Call for Reproductive Rights, Tamaya Cox-Toure.

    While Sen. Deevers argues abortion doesn’t fall under health care, Representative Mickey Dollens, D-OKC, said, “If life and death isn’t a health care issue, then what is? When we have doctors who are telling patients to go into the parking lot and wait until you bleed more so we can confidently say that you’re close enough to death to save your life – is that not a health care issue?”

    Oklahoma State Attorney General Gentner Drummond released an opinion late last year, stating there were no current laws that criminalize abortion for mothers.

    “Why do you want to do that now?” asked News 4’s Capitol Bureau Chief, Kaylee Olivas.

    “I don’t want to do that,” responded Sen. Deevers.

    “But that’s what it seems like in the bill,” said Olivas.

    “That’s the wrong framing. The right framing is equal protection under the law,” stated Sen. Deevers. “If you kill a person, then you’re a murderer and you deserve to have due process… like any other murderer.”


    The bill does include an exception to charges. If a woman is coerced into an abortion, Sen. Deevers said the state would not pursue charges.

    “She’s not done anything that was murderous. She’s not had the intent to with malice aforethought to kill her child. We’ve added those protections in there to make that clear,” he said.

    Sen. Deevers said another protection added into the proposal would cover physicians.

    “A doctor who has no malice aforethought, who is under the Hippocratic Oath, is seeking to treat both lives equally and to try to do no harm to both,” stated Sen. Deevers. “He’s not an intentional murderer, nor is he murdering. If that life of the baby perishes under his care, then that’s part of the triage situation. Not only would he not be a murderer, nor would the mother or anyone else who was treating an emergency pregnancy.”
    Reminder that yes, many Republicans still very much want to outlaw all abortion care and punish women for seeking that part of reproductive health care.

    And in which they argue for fetal personhood once more, without bothering to think of the long, long, long list of consequences that would have throughout the rest of our code of laws.

  6. #7486
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://kfor.com/news/oklahoma-legis...contraception/



    Reminder that yes, many Republicans still very much want to outlaw all abortion care and punish women for seeking that part of reproductive health care.

    And in which they argue for fetal personhood once more, without bothering to think of the long, long, long list of consequences that would have throughout the rest of our code of laws.
    That list of consequences just proves even they don't actually believe a fetus is a person. It's not about the fetus. The pro-life movement never has been. It's always been about punishing non-Christian-extremist women for their sexual freedom. That's it. That's the whole movement. Just misogyny and religious abuse.


  7. #7487
    Elemental Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    If pro-"life" people were in reality pro-life, then we would have:
    1) mandatory paid parental leave. Not just maternity, but paternity as well.
    2) improved social safety nets that people who need assistance to raise their kids can get it.
    3) improved sex education.
    4) making it far easier to get contraceptive

    And yet, the majority of pro-lifers are also all opposed to the above. It is almost like they don't care about the the things that have been proven to reduce abortions.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
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  8. #7488
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://kfor.com/news/oklahoma-legis...contraception/

    “It’s very simple. It seeks to take the exception for prenatal homicide, which is abortion, out of the homicide code and make it give equal protection under the law to all lives from the moment of conception to natural death,” stated Senator Dusty Deevers, R-Elgin.
    Show me the record that whomever the homicide was committed against ever existed as a living being.

    This was the irresponsible part of the supreme court (aside from invading womens right to privacy). And granted the supreme court can't legislate but there should be no legislation on where life begins and is recognized as a being. This is a decision for doctors to come to consensus on. If a consensus cannot be reached then they can confer with lawmakers but the fact that we as a society can't even come to agreement on whether it's a fetus, an unborn child, a child yet to be born, or a person is silly.

  9. #7489
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    Show me the record that whomever the homicide was committed against ever existed as a living being.

    This was the irresponsible part of the supreme court (aside from invading womens right to privacy). And granted the supreme court can't legislate but there should be no legislation on where life begins and is recognized as a being. This is a decision for doctors to come to consensus on. If a consensus cannot be reached then they can confer with lawmakers but the fact that we as a society can't even come to agreement on whether it's a fetus, an unborn child, a child yet to be born, or a person is silly.
    Fetal personhood remains 1000% irrelevant to the question. It's a matter of self-ownership of your own body, versus an entirely hypothetical and controversial claim of a right to life.

    Even if you steel-man the debate and grant the fetus personhood from conception, there is not any other circumstance where we violate Person A's bodily autonomy/self-ownership for the sake of Person B's right to life. If we did, we'd allow forced organ harvesting from living donors (you don't need two lungs, you liver will grow back, etc) and tissue harvesting as well. Among other things. This reversal on this principle is only suggested in the specific case of abortion rights, and only ever on religious grounds.

    And that means it should be summarily rejected, both as a violation of the supremacy of bodily autonomy over right to life, and as a violation of freedom of religion. The argument internally fails on two simultaneous grounds, even if we grant the fetal personhood claim, which we really shouldn't. It's just irrelevant to waste time on fetal personhood, because even if pro-lifers get that "win", their position still fails twice over.

    Pro-life is an evil movement whose intention is entirely malicious and misogynist. Its purpose is to render women into being second-class people, whose primary role is not as persons, but as ambulatory wombs for childbearing who remain subservient to that role regardless of their preferences. It's such a blatantly vile and abusive position to take, it really needs to start getting treated the same way as you'd treat someone with swastika tattoos on their neck, or someone who thinks they should be allowed to kill their own kids for "dishonouring" the family on some fringe religious grounds.

    It's equivalently malicious. There is no positive motivation behind pro-life movements. It's entirely about subjugating women and forcing religious fascism on the population. Nothing else.


  10. #7490
    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    Show me the record that whomever the homicide was committed against ever existed as a living being.
    They would, but actually considering the full scope of consequences of fetal personhood as a legal concept seems to be way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way above the pay grade for most of the folks arguing for it.

  11. #7491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    They would, but actually considering the full scope of consequences of fetal personhood as a legal concept seems to be way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way above the pay grade for most of the folks arguing for it.
    To start with: Insurance (Gotta cover your kids from conception), drinking (everyone is now 9 months older), enjoying government sanctioned violence abroad (Military), driving, smoking, owning firearms, and more I don't recall off the top of my head.
    They'll spin this as "You can kick kids off their parents insurance 9 months earlier now! GET THOSE N, um, er, NAUGHTY PEOPLE WE CAN NOW TRY AS ADULTS! AGE OF CONSENT IS LOWER WOOHOO!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  12. #7492
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    They would, but actually considering the full scope of consequences of fetal personhood as a legal concept seems to be way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way above the pay grade for most of the folks arguing for it.
    Oh I agree. I also agree with everything Endus said in that the question of personhood is largely irrelevant towards the legalities.

    That said, this is ultimately why I don't even think this should be a political question. This should be what is right and good for you the patient of this doctor. It's also not for the doctor to say he doesn't believe in abortion. His duty is to the patient and only to the baby in the case that its past the stage of fetal viability. And again that stage of fetal viability needs to be decided on via medical consensus not political

  13. #7493
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    Oh I agree. I also agree with everything Endus said in that the question of personhood is largely irrelevant towards the legalities.

    That said, this is ultimately why I don't even think this should be a political question. This should be what is right and good for you the patient of this doctor. It's also not for the doctor to say he doesn't believe in abortion. His duty is to the patient and only to the baby in the case that its past the stage of fetal viability. And again that stage of fetal viability needs to be decided on via medical consensus not political
    This is exactly how it's been in Canada for decades now. SCOC ruled abortion restrictions unconstitutional in 1988. There was a failed attempt in '89 to pass a new restrictive law and it failed in the Senate, and we haven't revisited the issue since. It almost never comes up, even, though conservatives are making noises now as they look southward for guidelines. It won't end up going anywhere.


  14. #7494
    https://omaha.com/news/state-regiona...ee9f4df07.html

    Social media messages about homosexuality, race and abortion prompted heated exchanges Wednesday at a confirmation hearing for the new CEO of Nebraska’s Health and Human Services Department.

    “It’s not just a handful of things,” State Sen. Machaela Cavanaugh of Omaha said at Steve Corsi’s confirmation hearing. “It is a pattern.”

    Corsi has drawn fire for his social media activity since his August appointment. He didn’t write any of the posts in question, but Cavanaugh and other critics noted that he liked messages that cast doubt on COVID-19 treatments, referred to homosexuality as a sin, and claimed that transgender individuals were mentally ill.

    Gov. Jim Pillen appointed Corsi to replace former DHHS CEO Dannette Smith. Corsi made his Twitter account private after critics began to highlight his activity on the social media platform — now known as X — which he said he had considered a private matter. He said he did so because a “press firestorm” had become a distraction.
    So the necessary setup, and there's a reason I'm posting in this thread. He had a good response on questions of race but...

    Cavanaugh also pressed Corsi on a post he liked that said “abortion isn’t health care because pregnancy isn’t a disease.” Corsi said he still agreed with that post.

    That response spurred Cavanaugh to explain why she believes abortion is health care. She said miscarriages are considered abortions, and noted that there are women who need abortions because their pregnancies pose serious risks to their health.

    “You want to be the head of the Department of Health and Human Services, and you do not understand what is essential health care for reproductive health,” Cavanaugh said. Corsi did not respond further to her abortion comments.
    Again, Republicans do not seem to understand pregnancies, especially Republican men. Even as they consistently seek to regulate them, and women's bodies or seek to be in positions of power in dealing with peoples health.

    or accountability and disclosure forms, and said she first learned about his work with Epiphany just a few hours before the hearing. Corsi called his lack of disclosure an “error in oversight.”

    Pillen has entered Nebraska into a $10 million contract with Epiphany to work on ways to reduce government waste. Although news of the contract broke after Corsi stopped working at the company, the contract had been signed in June. Cavanaugh said it was an emergency contract, which meant the state didn’t consider any other bids.

    “Are you the right person for this position when you are working in darkness with an organization that you yourself did not disclose that you were employed by, days before you received this position?” Cavanaugh asked. “It’s very, very concerning.”
    Damn, doesn't sound like a very forthright dude at all.

  15. #7495
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...ape-and-incest

    “If you want to go after the rapist, let’s give him the death penalty. Absolutely, let’s do it,” Brattin said. “But not the innocent person caught in-between that, by God’s grace, may even be the greatest healing agent you need in which to recover from such an atrocity.”


    Republican Sen. Mike Moon was also in favor of the ban and added to Brattin’s comments, calling for rapists to be castrated.
    How many republicans, including but not limited to Trump, would have to be castrated then? Not that they would abide by their own laws, but still.
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

    Prediction for the future

  16. #7496
    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...ape-and-incest







    How many republicans, including but not limited to Trump, would have to be castrated then? Not that they would abide by their own laws, but still.
    He says it like they'd actually go after rapists when in fact they're far more likely to let them join the republican party. Also, Abbot said he'd "eliminate all rape" and as we can see he's been doing a bang up job.

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  17. #7497
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    If pro-"life" people were in reality pro-life, then we would have:
    1) mandatory paid parental leave. Not just maternity, but paternity as well.
    2) improved social safety nets that people who need assistance to raise their kids can get it.
    3) improved sex education.
    4) making it far easier to get contraceptive

    And yet, the majority of pro-lifers are also all opposed to the above. It is almost like they don't care about the the things that have been proven to reduce abortions.
    Because the heart of the pro-life movement isn't about protecting life or reducing abortions. It's about controlling people's (read: mostly women's) sexual behavior by forcing the worst of the consequences on them.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  18. #7498
    Elemental Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    Because the heart of the pro-life movement isn't about protecting life or reducing abortions. It's about controlling people's (read: mostly women's) sexual behavior by forcing the worst of the consequences on them.
    My bad, I should have mentioned the last part as being sarcastic.

    Yeah, I am aware. If you control women, you control a population.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  19. #7499
    Misery living up to their nickname...

    Missouri senators vote against allowing abortions in rape, incest cases

    Missouri senators voted Wednesday against amendments that would have allowed abortions in the cases of rape and incest in the state.

    Missouri senators debated a bill that would make it illegal for public funds to go toward abortion providers, such as Planned Parenthood. During the debate, Missouri state Sen. Tracy McCreery (D) introduced amendments that would allow exceptions for abortion in incest and rape cases.

    “I think the consensus is that Missouri law went too far when they banned all abortions,” she said during the discussion, according to audio posted online by the state Senate.

    However, her efforts were struck down along party lines by the Republican-controlled state Senate
    , The Associated Press reported. McCreery also argued the current abortion ban shows the state does not care about women who are victims of rape.
    “What we’re saying is, ‘We don’t care,’” McCreery said of the abortion ban, according to the AP. “We’re going to force you to give birth, even if that pregnancy resulted from forcible rape by a family member, a date, an ex-husband or a stranger.”

    State Sen. Rick Brattin (R) pushed back on allowing exceptions, arguing that giving birth in the cases of rape and incest could help the mother recover, according to AP.
    Ah, good, another man who knows exactly what a woman needs to get over the trauma of rape.

  20. #7500
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    Misery living up to their nickname...

    Missouri senators vote against allowing abortions in rape, incest cases



    Ah, good, another man who knows exactly what a woman needs to get over the trauma of rape.
    Have any of these Republican men suggested that these rape victims put a...I think it was tylenol, between their knees?

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