SCOTUS removes Roe V Wade

[Edge-]

That's the problem with the two party system when both parties suck.

Democrats and their voters advocate killing the unborn

Damn, two sentences in before a completely dishonest fiction appears. Almost!

[Belize]

That's the problem with the two party system when both parties suck.

Democrats and their voters advocate killing the unborn on the slightest whim, and many actively celebrate it.

Don't sell us evil libruls short like that. We also advocated for post-birth abortions on conservatives too!

/s if anyone is wondering, jesus

[Adamas102]

Try to hold people accountable for their choices and it's "cOnTrOlLiNg wOmEn"... The true problem is the cultural rot of celebrating promiscuous behavior...

You know you're dealing with a morally bankrupt absolute piece of shit when they reveal that they just see pregnancies as consequences and punishment that women should endure because of "choices". You can pretend to care about "the unborn" all you like, but we all know what your real motivation is.

[Captain N]

You know you're dealing with a morally bankrupt absolute piece of shit when they reveal that they just see pregnancies as consequences and punishment that women should endure because of "choices". You can pretend to care about "the unborn" all you like, but we all know what your real motivation is.

To be fair that's all the Pro-Life Movement has always been. It's religious which is nonsensical to begin with or it's misogyny revolving around the fact that women who like sex should be punished by men who couldn't get laid in a whorehouse.

[Adamas102]

To be fair that's all the Pro-Life Movement has always been. It's religious which is nonsensical to begin with or it's misogyny revolving around the fact that women who like sex should be punished by men who couldn't get laid in a whorehouse.

Yup, and what's worse is that it's pretty much irrelevant to the discussions surrounding abortions in the latter parts of pregnancy since those mostly involve women who actually WANTED to have a child and for one reason or another (usually medically related) are forced to make tough decisions. As soon as you see the "hold people accountable for their choices" argument (and you KNOW when they say 'people' they really just mean 'women') you can rest assured that person neither understands nor cares about the actual pregnancy.

[Endus]

That's the problem with the two party system when both parties suck.

Democrats and their voters advocate killing the unborn on the slightest whim, and many actively celebrate it.

That's just slanderous religious mythology. "The unborn" don't exist as people, in the first place. And abortion rights aren't even about "killing" anything, they're about the right to control your own body and whether it will undergo a pregnancy.

You're just openly lying and demonstrating that you consider women a lesser class of people. Literally with less respect than we offer to someone's corpse.

They not only don't possess the moral high ground, they aren't even on the moral battlefield. Try to hold people accountable for their choices and it's "cOnTrOlLiNg wOmEn". They're just sick, and their ideology blinds them from even basic thinking.

Yeah. Trying to hold women "accountable" for free choices that have preventable consequences is outright misogyny. You're being misogynist. Because your religious views encourage you to see women as subservient second-class people whose primary purpose is to bear children for men.

That's misogyny. You're never going to escape that label until you give up misogynist views.

In the real world, the "consequence" of an unwanted pregnancy is just "getting an abortion". Responsibility taken and acted upon. If you're arguing against that, your issue isn't actually with women taking accountability for their actions. Because it never was actually about that. That's just the excuse you use to attack women's freedoms.

The problem for the pro-life advocate, then, is that in the battle to reduce the number of unborn killed

Literally no one cares about your religious views, and you have no business forcing them onto the rest of society. Nobody cares what imaginary nonsense you make up about "the unborn". It's not secular reasoning, and you should keep it to yourself and only use it to inform your own choices. Anything past that, and you're forcing your religious views on nonbelievers, and you'd scream bloody murder if anyone tried to force you to abide by, say, Sharia law.

The true problem is the cultural rot of celebrating promiscuous behavior

Again, this is just down to your puritanical religious views. Keep that shit to yourself.

[DarkTZeratul]

You know you're dealing with a morally bankrupt absolute piece of shit when they reveal that they just see pregnancies as consequences and punishment that women should endure because of "choices". You can pretend to care about "the unborn" all you like, but we all know what your real motivation is.

Not to mention that it's really quite disturbing that they're happy to reduce a child to a "consequence." That's an actual, living person, that very well may end up suffering because the government told someone who lacks either the ability or the desire to raise a child "tough shit, do it anyway."

[unfilteredJW]

That's the problem with the two party system when both parties suck.

Democrats and their voters advocate killing the unborn on the slightest whim, and many actively celebrate it. They not only don't possess the moral high ground, they aren't even on the moral battlefield. Try to hold people accountable for their choices and it's "cOnTrOlLiNg wOmEn". They're just sick, and their ideology blinds them from even basic thinking.

Republicans and many of the pro-life advocates, on the other hand, turn around and oppose birth control and programs to help out parents in poverty, which would go a long way to reducing the number of unborn killed. They're just complete idiots.

The problem for the pro-life advocate, then, is that in the battle to reduce the number of unborn killed, one party staunchly supports killing them and the other staunchly opposes the best methods for reducing the number that is achievable through political action.

The true problem is the cultural rot of celebrating promiscuous behavior, which has been absolutely devastating on society in far more ways than just this one topic. The only way to truly protect life is to change the culture, and our hedonistic society isn't interested.

That incelly smell of something incelly.

[Mekh]

The true problem is the cultural rot of celebrating promiscuous behavior.

Someone's jealous of the leftist orgies.

[s_bushido]

Try to hold people accountable for their choices and it's "cOnTrOlLiNg wOmEn".

Yes, jackass, that's how words work. Getting an abortion is "being accountable," because the only people who think pregnancy should be a punishment for "promiscuous behavior" are pieces of shit whose only concern is controlling women.

[Xyonai]

Republicans and many of the pro-life advocates, on the other hand, turn around and oppose birth control and programs to help out parents in poverty, which would go a long way to reducing the number of unborn killed. They're just complete idiots.

Ignoring the rest of this insane, deliberately inflammatory nonsense; this is really the biggest weakness of the Anti Abortion movement. They've backed themselves into a rhetorical corner by being staunchly against everything that would actually solve the problem they claim exists, or at least ease public perception a bit more into siding with them.

They don't want birth control because they don't want women being 'sluts', they don't want government assisted childcare because of 'welfare queens', they don't want to do anything about the medical costs associated with childbirth because of a blend of 'evil socialism' and 'If people are more aware of the complications of childbirth, then it makes our stance look monstrous!' nonsense.

So they can't actually offer any solutions that anyone actually wants without upsetting a the disparate faction of lunatics their party has been cultivating through inflammatory rhetoric and pearl clutching scaremongering. It's a big part of why the abortion issue has been such a loser for them since Roe was struck down, and why a lot of Republican politicians have been quietly scrubbing any mention of it from their campaigns. That and they're feckless cowards who won't stand on even their shitty, imaginary principals unless they know they can shove them onto everyone else without consequence.

Edit: Also I know no one else but me cares, but I do apologize if my language on this issue has been a bit too riled up. I'm kind of just incredibly done giving anyone on the Right any benefit of the doubt when it comes to Abortion rights (among other things); if you're solution to this 'problem' is to treat childbirth as a 'punishment' or just shrug and go 'Oh well!' when people die of preventable complications (let alone legislate or act in a way to prevent people from getting the help they need when it's clear that they'll die without it), then you're either evil or stupid or both, and your opinion on the matter deserves nothing but scorn.

[Endus]

Edit: Also I know no one else but me cares, but I do apologize if my language on this issue has been a bit too riled up. I'm kind of just incredibly done giving anyone on the Right any benefit of the doubt when it comes to Abortion rights (among other things); if you're solution to this 'problem' is to treat childbirth as a 'punishment' or just shrug and go 'Oh well!' when people die of preventable complications (let alone legislate or act in a way to prevent people from getting the help they need when it's clear that they'll die without it), then you're either evil or stupid or both, and your opinion on the matter deserves nothing but scorn.

Frankly, it should be riled up. I was a lot more forgiving earlier on in discussions with pro-life advocates, assuming there had to be something I didn't see, but after constantly pressuring them to explain their point of view, it's become excruciatingly clear it boils down to two simple precepts;

1> Misogyny. They want women to suffer. Especially women who aren't on "their team", however they define that.
2> Christofascism. They think their religious precepts should be forced on non-believers, and anyone protesting that similarly deserves to suffer.

And that's it. That's everything. Every other excuse they bring is trivially dismissable; it's either a subset of the above two, or it's a lie they use to hide them. Like fetal personhood. They don't believe it. They don't support it in any other instance. Just here. Because it's a cover for bigotry.

Because that's all pro-life movements are. Hateful bigotry. Nothing else to them at all. Anyone advocating for that position is a bad person who wants innocents to suffer, either because they hate women, or their religion calls for suffering of the innocents. Or both.

When someone presents such an argument, it's fine to "get a little riled up", especially when they lie alongside it all trying to deceive you about their intents.

To be frank, I think we've all been far too fuckin' polite.

[Dontrike]

That's the problem with the two party system when both parties suck.

Herp derp both sides

Democrats and their voters advocate killing the unborn on the slightest whim, and many actively celebrate it. They not only don't possess the moral high ground, they aren't even on the moral battlefield.

Even the Bible is fine with abortions and states a child isn't alive until it takes its first breath. Go take your idiotic self righteousness elsewhere.

Try to hold people accountable for their choices and it's "cOnTrOlLiNg wOmEn". They're just sick, and their ideology blinds them from even basic thinking.

The fact you think rape and incest is "holding people accountable" is fucking stupid at best, and even more so when you believe pregnancy should be a punishment for something.

Republicans and many of the pro-life advocates, on the other hand, turn around and oppose birth control and programs to help out parents in poverty, which would go a long way to reducing the number of unborn killed. They're just complete idiots.

You know what else would? Sex education classes, which dems are for and Republicans are against, almost like it makes it easier for them to diddle kids when they don't know it's wrong.

The problem for the pro-life advocate, then, is that in the battle to reduce the number of unborn killed, one party staunchly supports killing them

If I had a year I couldn't describe just how stupid this comment is. No one supports killing people, except republicans, and the unborn aren't actually people yet. When both science and the Bible tell you you're wrong then why is it you think you know better?

The true problem is the cultural rot of celebrating promiscuous behavior, which has been absolutely devastating on society in far more ways than just this one topic. The only way to truly protect life is to change the culture, and our hedonistic society isn't interested.

Ooph, this is some "I'll tell the church elders that you held hands" incel sort of energy. You're not a great person, are you?

[Myradin]

The true problem is the cultural rot of celebrating promiscuous behavior, which has been absolutely devastating on society in far more ways than just this one topic. The only way to truly protect life is to change the culture, and our hedonistic society isn't interested.

The only moral rot is people getting too concerned about what other consenting people are doing in their bedrooms. Or with their own bodies.

[Belize]

CuLtUrAl RoT is such a shitty defense considering listening to rock n' roll was once considered cultural rot. Like, fuck off.

[Xyonai]

CuLtUrAl RoT is such a shitty defense considering listening to rock n' roll was once considered cultural rot. Like, fuck off.

The whole shtick of slut shaming through the abortion debate that some of these dweebs still legitimately engage in is older than most of the posters here. They just throw it out so they don't actually have to think about their side of the argument, because thinking about it for too long means they need to figure out how to reconcile children, rape victims, and unhealthy mothers needing to terminate pregnancies that they don't want.

[Edge-]

https://virginiamercury.com/2024/02/...abortion-bill/

Democrats in the Virginia House of Delegates forced their Republican colleagues to take an up-or-down vote Monday on a sweeping anti-abortion bill one lawmaker called “a slap in the face” to women who have been raped or suffer life-threatening complications from a pregnancy.

In a procedural move designed to put Republicans on the spot over the most extreme anti-abortion proposals emerging from their ranks, Democrats themselves brought a GOP-sponsored bill to the House floor that would have cut off public funding for clinics and hospitals where abortions are performed with no exceptions for rape, incest, severe fetal abnormalities or when the mother’s life is at risk.

The hardball move by Democrats to advance the bill just far enough that all Republicans would have to vote on it comes after a hotly contested 2023 election season that Democrats characterized as a referendum on preserving abortion access in Virginia. Forcing Republicans to go on the record Monday, Democrats said, would help illuminate whether they got the message voters had sent by electing Democratic majorities in both the House and Senate.

After several rounds of parliamentary battle over whether the bill could be scaled back or stricken from the agenda altogether, Republicans were forced to vote on the bill with no changes. The legislation was rejected in a nearly unanimous 95-1-2 vote, with just a few Republicans abstaining or voting no.

Minority Leader Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah, tried to amend the bill on the floor and suggested its broad scope was partly a result of the inexperience of Del. Tim Griffin, R-Bedford. But in an unusually testy floor fight, Democrats repeatedly blocked GOP efforts to water down the legislation, saying Republicans should have to own up to the ramifications of Griffin’s original bill.

“If the patron didn’t know what he was doing, maybe he should’ve stayed out of women’s business,” said Del. Candi Mundon King, D-Prince William, who called the bill an attack on potentially thousands of women.

Republicans protested that they were trying to fix the very problems Mundon King was decrying when she called the bill a “slap in the face” to women, but were being denied the chance by Democrats more interested in a political stunt.

“I don’t know where the absurdity of this theater ends,” Gilbert said.

The GOP leader attempted to offer a rewritten version of Griffin’s bill that he said would only replicate the longstanding federal Hyde Amendment — which prohibits public funding of abortions with exceptions for rape, incest and the life of the mother — at the state level.

New House Speaker Don Scott, D-Portsmouth, rejected that effort, saying what Gilbert was trying to do was so different from the original bill that it wasn’t a valid amendment to a bill that would do away with those same exceptions. Republicans then made a rare attempt to override the speaker’s ruling. The Democratic majority blocked that too.

With the original bill intact, Griffin stood and attempted to make an argument for why the Hyde Amendment exists. Democrats shut down that effort, saying he wasn’t speaking to what his bill actually did.

“The delegate has to speak to the bill,” Scott said. “Not to the bill you wished you had introduced.”

Del. Marcus Simon, D-Fairfax, said it’s not uncommon for lawmakers to have their own bills turned against them.

“It’s happened to me. I’ve had some bad ideas before,” Simon said. “You put those bills in, and anything can happen. And you’ve got to be willing to deal with the consequences.”

Griffin said it wasn’t up to other delegates to “define what my bill is.”

“I believe I can define what my bill is,” Griffin said. “And that’s what I’m doing.”

Griffin then faulted Democrats for turning his bill into a “circus,” saying he supports exceptions for the life of the mother but was never afforded a chance to amend the legislation to reflect that.

“The intent of this bill is that taxpayers not be forced into something that goes against their religion and their conscience,” Griffin said. “I will not allow these babies and these mothers to be politicized. If this is how it’s going to go today, I move to strike this bill.”

The Democratic majority didn’t allow Griffin to cancel his own legislation. That prompted a warning from Del. Bobby Orrock, R-Caroline, who said the body was breaking with its longstanding tradition of letting members retake control of bills that have gone “totally awry.”

“Understand the consequences that may come home to roost for all the rest of us,” Orrock said, adding that in his 35 years of House service he was aware of just one instance that Republicans had done the same thing to a Democrat.

Gilbert bristled at accusations Republicans were indifferent to the plight of suffering women, saying Mundon King had a prepared speech that relied on Democrats rejecting every GOP effort to address the problems with the original bill.

“You’re going to accuse us of everything we just got accused of and then deny us the ability to do the very thing you say we don’t want to do,” Gilbert said.

Mundon King called the proposal a “scorched-earth bill” that was not the result of a drafting error or a freshman’s inexperience.

“When the patron introduced this bill,’ she said, “he knew exactly what he was doing.”

Republicans continue to propose extremist legislation, and it seems Virginia Democrats have called them on this bullshit and forced them to take a vote on the legislation as-proposed, not giving them the opportunity to try to make it more palatable for a general public. It was their bill after all.

Thankfully it failed, but this just continues to show the how widespread the extremism is on this topic within the Republican party. It's not just an isolated few, it's party leaders in almost every state.

[Mekh]

https://virginiamercury.com/2024/02/...abortion-bill/



Republicans continue to propose extremist legislation, and it seems Virginia Democrats have called them on this bullshit and forced them to take a vote on the legislation as-proposed, not giving them the opportunity to try to make it more palatable for a general public. It was their bill after all.

Thankfully it failed, but this just continues to show the how widespread the extremism is on this topic within the Republican party. It's not just an isolated few, it's party leaders in almost every state.

Excellent move by the Dems though for a change. Can't let these assholes hide forever.

[Rasulis]

We won't know for sure until April 1. However, it appears that the Florida Supreme Court, with 5 members handpicked by DeSantis, is inclined to let the abortion amendment get on the ballot.

“You’re saying, ‘This is a wolf.’ And a wolf it may be,” Justice John D. Couriel said. “But it seems like our job is to answer whether it’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing. That’s all we get to do.”

“It imposes an impossible burden on the people proposing the amendment,” Justice Charles T. Canady said.

“It seems to me like all of these things will need to be argued out in the political process … We aren’t given the power in the Constitution to impose such a restriction,” he said.

[Edge-]

https://newrepublic.com/post/178982/...abies-abortion

A gubernatorial candidate in Missouri is arguing against abortion access for rape victims on the basis that it would technically allow babies to gain access to the medical procedure.

Republican Missouri State Senator Bill Eigel took the draconian (and idiotic) stance during a debate last week, over an amendment to the state’s already restrictive abortion ban. Missouri has only allowed abortions in the event of medical emergencies since shortly after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade in June 2022. The new amendment, proposed by Democratic state Senator Doug Beck, would permit abortions for children aged 12 and under if they are victims of rape or incest, raising health concerns for child rape victims if their pregnancies were carried to term.

Honestly...sounds fairly practical. There's far greater risk to young girls in carrying a pregnancy physically, not to mention the broader impacts that possibly dropping out of school to raise a child while not even a teenager has for their lives. Plus, being raped is pretty fucking traumatic, especially as a child.

Anyways, what's the opposition that Republican gubernatorial candidate and current State Senator Bill Eigel is expressing?

“You want to bring back the institution of abortion so that kids can get abortions in the state of Missouri. A 1-year-old could get an abortion under this,” Eigel said, according to the St Louis Post-Dispatch.

...

This is another really stunning example of why it's so important that women be involved in this discussion and why a great, great many men need to step back, sit down, and shut the fuck up.

The uneducated response immediately called for a fact-check from Beck.

“I don’t know that a 1-year-old could get pregnant, Senator,” he retorted, before asking if Eigel was “OK” with the “forced birth of a child being raped.”

“I don’t support the institutions of rape or of incest. But your amendment doesn’t address those,” Eigel replied.

So no, Senator Eigel has no clue how pregnancy works or how the human body operates. A 1 year old is not capable of being impregnated. They can absolutely be raped by monsters, but like...come the fuck on.

But Eigel isn’t alone in his condemnation of the bill. Another Republican, Missouri State Senator Sandy Crawford, claimed the incest and rape provision shouldn’t pass because “God is perfect.”

“God does not make mistakes. And for some reason he allows that to happen, bad things happen,” Crawford said. “I’m not gonna be able to support the amendments because I am very pro-life.”

Honestly, seems like Missouri has some pro-rape Republicans. I don't have any desire to get into religious discussion, but any thought that any rape is "intended" to happen or "good" is monstrous and nobody holding those views should be in public office or in any position of authority.

Just another very explicit reminder that the extremist position remains the central Republican position on this topic, and Republicans are absolute fucking lunatics.