1. #7581
    The Undying
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Alabama’s supreme court ruled embryos are ‘extrauterine children’. IVF patients are worried

    The implications of this are huge, it may lead to IVF clinics fleeing red states for fear they would be charged with murder for measures that would be otherwise considered routine. The ruling was pretty much a religious speech, I mean does this mean you can claim tax credits, child supports and others in red states? for anyone who isn't a religious zealot this is insanity.
    We're going to start seeing "mom's" being convicted of involuntary manslaughter for [whatever asinine reason the GOP chooses to destroy women's rights on a day ending in "y"] when their embryo aborts.

    The United States is functionally transitioning to a Handmaid Tale State.

    Recall also that a current sitting SCOTUS justice is literally a former Handmaid (Amy Coney Barrett) (looking at you tehdang - you still denying that reality? ) and Kavanaugh has been quoted as saying tampons aren't a woman's right.

  2. #7582
    Herald of the Titans D Luniz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Those are the people who think the best way to help the average hard-working middle-class American not living in those dang liberal coastal elite cities is to elect a New York-based billionaire who is a proud crook and cheat claiming to be above the law. Who think the best way to combat unwanted pregnancies as a policy is for teens and young adults to practice wilful abstinence. Who claim life is sacred and all children must be given a chance but definitely don't want their tax dollars to fund more social programs to help those children.

    The contradiction is small potatoes compared to all those they deal with on the regular.
    wonder how they are gonna act when their tax dollars go to keep a few hundred thousand embyros viable for...well forever.
    Not sure if frozen they can actually *die*

    - - - Updated - - -

    and if someone doesnt want to keep paying the storage costs, can they just wrap the vials in dry ice and drop them in the nearest "Baby Moses" box?
    "Law and Order", lots of places have had that, Russia, North Korea, Saddam's Iraq.
    Laws can be made to enforce order of cruelty and brutality.
    Equality and Justice, that is how you have peace and a society that benefits all.

  3. #7583
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkRose92 View Post
    Almost 2 years since Roe v Wade was overturned yet the world didn't implode upon itself. Gasp.
    and before that ~40 years of Roe v Wade and the world didn't implode upon itself.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  4. #7584
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Luniz View Post
    wonder how they are gonna act when their tax dollars go to keep a few hundred thousand embyros viable for...well forever.
    Not sure if frozen they can actually *die*

    - - - Updated - - -

    and if someone doesnt want to keep paying the storage costs, can they just wrap the vials in dry ice and drop them in the nearest "Baby Moses" box?
    Raises an interesting (if colossally fuckin' stupid) question; you can turn off life support without that being "murder". And these embryos can't survive being unfrozen without implantation. So surely you can just turn off the support systems and let them expire naturally, right?

    And if not, then surely it's the government's responsibility to keep paying for the upkeep, no?

    If we can't stop these misogynist, religious fascist bigot fucks from pulling this malicious shit, we can at least make them financially responsible for their bullshit.


  5. #7585
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...ies-rcna139819

    “Embryos, to me, are babies,” Haley told NBC News in an interview, adding that she used artificial insemination to have her son, a different process than IVF which doesn't present the same complexities around creating embryos in a lab. "When you talk about an embryo, you are talking about, to me, that’s a life. And so I do see where that’s coming from when they talk about that.”
    Embryos are babies, not embryos!

    Just a reminder that even the "centrist" Republican candidates are fairly extremist on this topic.

    Haley has sought to find a rhetorical middle ground on reproductive health policy as a 2024 presidential candidate. She has repeatedly calling for national "consensus" on abortion in debates instead of the bans and restrictions favored by some of her primary opponents.

    But any moves that could restrict IVF appear broadly unpopular. In a 2022 Washington Post article, political scientists analyzing a decade-plus of survey data found that only a slim minority of voters who oppose abortion also opposed IVF.
    There is no consensus with unpopular, minority, extremist positions.

  6. #7586
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Worse, she's talking about a religious view.

    It's fine to have religious views. Believe what you want, as long as you're not harming anyone.

    The problem is when you try forcing all non-believers to abide by your religious views, and when you make it law, you're doing so through violence. The police enforce that law. And the police have weapons and are entitled to use force on you. That's "violence".

    When you try and shape law to punish all those who have different religious views by attacking them with the police for expressing or acting on those views, you're a violent fascist attacking innocent people's basic human rights.

    Just a reminder that even the "centrist" Republican candidates are fairly extremist on this topic.
    I've said it before, I'll repeat it again;

    Pro-life positions are as monstrous and unacceptable in a modern, free society as forced female genital mutilation advocacy would be. They're equally monstrous attacks on women's basic humanity.


  7. #7587
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...ies-rcna139819



    Embryos are babies, not embryos!

    Just a reminder that even the "centrist" Republican candidates are fairly extremist on this topic.

    There is no consensus with unpopular, minority, extremist positions.
    Ah look the wind changed direction and so did Haley. I'm left wondering if being completely devoid of any political stances is better or worse than having absolutely horrid political stances.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  8. #7588
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...ies-rcna139819

    Embryos are babies, not embryos!

    Just a reminder that even the "centrist" Republican candidates are fairly extremist on this topic.
    .
    Haley understood that Republicans were getting a little too frothy at the mouth at taking away women's rights. She softened quite a bit, well at least during the primary. As usual she can't help herself. It's in the water for Republicans and when asked of course embryos are babies.

    Just wishing that enough people catch onto this. Republicans will take away the choice if in power.
    Democrats are the best! I will never ever question a Democrat again. I LOVE the Democrats!

  9. #7589
    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    Just wishing that enough people catch onto this. Republicans will take away the choice if in power.
    And it will cost the GOP almost every race for a decade...including the WH.

  10. #7590
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    And it will cost the GOP almost every race for a decade...including the WH.
    No, it won't. A conservative has no problem saying "I hate everything you stand for, every policy you support is evil, and you're an amoral monster. You have my vote!"

  11. #7591
    Idaho Has Lost 22% of Its Practicing Obstetricians in the Last 15 months.

    The number of obstetricians in Idaho decreased from 227 in 2022 to about 176 in 2023, a decline of 51 doctors.


    Coincidence?

    Non-paywall AP link.

    Dozens of Idaho obstetricians have stopped practicing there since abortions were banned, study says

    Also.

    Alabama hospital puts pause on IVF in wake of ruling saying frozen embryos are children

    Unintended or intended consequences? Couples with infertility issues in Alabama will have to go out of state now.
    Last edited by Rasulis; 2024-02-22 at 07:16 AM.

  12. #7592
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Not their concern.
    Real People(tm) will have the money to go out of state and a short while later "a miracle" has occurred.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  13. #7593
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Once more I have to cheer for neo-liberalism (despise it) to fix the market of craziness. Maybe if this starts impacting people they will come around. Nah....

    Obviously this is horrible since the ones who will suffer have no choice but to stay in these forsaken places.
    Democrats are the best! I will never ever question a Democrat again. I LOVE the Democrats!

  14. #7594
    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    Once more I have to cheer for neo-liberalism (despise it) to fix the market of craziness. Maybe if this starts impacting people they will come around. Nah....

    Obviously this is horrible since the ones who will suffer have no choice but to stay in these forsaken places.
    But...this has nothing to do with neoliberalism? This has nothing to do with market-oriented policies, but is a market response to legal rulings on matters of law that impacts their legal liability.

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...ma-ivf-ruling/

    “They came for abortion first. Now it’s [in vitro fertilization], and next it’ll be birth control,” the 2016 Democratic presidential nominee and secretary of State said in a post on X, the platform formerly known as Twitter.

    “The extreme right won’t stop trying to exert government control over our most sacred personal decisions until we codify reproductive freedom as a human right,” Clinton added.
    Once again, even if she's hardly alone or far from the first to say it, Hillary is correct.

    I do wonder if freezing your embryos in Alabama is now "one easy trick" to claim upwards of dozens of dependents on your state taxes?

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tommy...b0cc1f2f7b1a81

    Sen. Tommy Tuberville (R-Ala.) said Thursday that he is “all for” the Alabama Supreme Court’s decision that frozen embryos are children.

    He also said he opposes the effects of the ruling. And that he supports fertility treatments like IVF that are now being denied to women across his state as a result of the court’s ruling. And that he wants to read the legislation more closely before saying more — except there is no legislation.

    The Alabama senator delivered this spectacular series of responses in the span of three minutes when asked for his reaction to the court’s unprecedented decision on Tuesday.
    In both highlighting why you shouldn't elect a dumbass college football coach to the US Senate, and also highlighting how this is such a thorny issue for Republicans who are trying to both appeal to their extremist base and not completely ostracize moderates.

    Tuberville initially didn’t hesitate to praise the court’s ruling when asked about it by reporters attending the Conservative Political Action Conference.

    “I was all for it,” the Republican senator said cheerfully. “You know, you just gotta look at everything going on in the country. It’s just an attack on families, an attack on kids. You know, anything we can do for the future of our young people because they’re our No. 1 commodity.”
    Children are a commodity? That's a strange way of referring to them. Not really and it speaks volumes of how folks like Tuberville actually view the situation, though. It's very telling.

    His remarks made no sense, as families are now being denied the ability to try to have children through IVF. “We need to have more kids,” he continued. “We need to have an opportunity to do that. I thought this was the right thing to do.”
    Notably absent: Any push for additional funding for programs that support young parents and the like.

    When it was pointed out that Alabama health clinics are halting IVF treatments as a result of the court decision, Tuberville started talking about abortion.

    “Well, that’s for another conversation,” he said. “I think the big thing is, right now, you protect, you go back to the situation and try to work it out to where it’s best for everybody. I mean, that’s what the whole abortion issue is about.”

    Except the court’s decision wasn’t about abortion. And the concern now is that families in Alabama might not have access to IVF anymore.
    Honestly 50/50 on whether Tuberville is aware of his comments and just lying, or whether he's this deeply stupid and ignorant of the topic and also doesn't even have a passing familiarity with the ruling he's sharing his opinion on.

    HuffPost asked what he would say to women in Alabama who will no longer have access to IVF treatments as a result of this ruling. Tuberville said it was “unfortunate” and “hard.”

    “Really hard. Because again, you want people to have that opportunity,” he said. “We need more kids. I’d have to look at the entire bill, how it’s written. I have not seen it.”

    Except there is no bill. This was an Alabama Supreme Court decision, not a bill passed by the state legislature.

    “Well, I know that,” Tuberville snapped. “But I haven’t looked at it. This is a state issue.”

    Huh?
    Tommy Tuberville is astoundingly stupid, maliciously so.

    When another reporter asked if he thought the court’s decision would alienate swing voters in the November general election, the senator shrugged.

    “I don’t know, it might, some,” he said, downplaying its significance. “You don’t hear a lot of folks talk about it. That’s not a big conversation.”

    Tuberville then backtracked and agreed that there is a conversation about this happening right now, and that fertility treatments are not a partisan issue.

    “We don’t need that,” he said of the court’s decision halting IVF treatments. “We need people to have an opportunity to have kids.”

    Another reporter asked Tuberville if he disagrees, then, with the court’s decision to treat embryos as children. This time, he simply feigned ignorance on it.

    “I’d have to look at what they’re agreeing to or not agreeing to,” he replied, before walking away. “I haven’t seen that.”
    The people spearheading this kind of thinking and these kinds of rulings and policies to this effect genuinely don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

    The cruelty remains the point, and Republican men who think that "a womans body just has a way of rejecting pregnancies from rape" or "put an Aspirin between your knees to avoid pregnancy" and the like continue to have no right being in the room where decisions are being made or discussing this topic in any capacity and need to sit down and shut the fuck up.

  15. #7595
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopymonster View Post
    Not their concern.
    Real People(tm) will have the money to go out of state and a short while later "a miracle" has occurred.
    I had to double check. Apparently as of 2019, 56% of IVF patients received the procedure through their insurance. Going to another state likely meant that they going to an out of network facility which won't be covered by their insurance. A single IVF cycle—defined as ovarian stimulation, egg retrieval and embryo transfer—can range from $15,000 to $30,000. Without insurance those are some pretty daunting numbers.

    Two more Alabama facilities have paused IVF treatment.

    More Alabama IVF providers pause treatment after court ruling on frozen embryos

    - - - Updated - - -

    Yikes.

    Tennessee GOP Kill a Bill To Legalize Abortion Exception for Children Who Are Raped

    BTW, that's children as in 12 and under.

  16. #7596
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    I had to double check. Apparently as of 2019, 56% of IVF patients received the procedure through their insurance. Going to another state likely meant that they going to an out of network facility which won't be covered by their insurance. A single IVF cycle—defined as ovarian stimulation, egg retrieval and embryo transfer—can range from $15,000 to $30,000. Without insurance those are some pretty daunting numbers.

    Two more Alabama facilities have paused IVF treatment.

    More Alabama IVF providers pause treatment after court ruling on frozen embryos

    - - - Updated - - -

    Yikes.

    Tennessee GOP Kill a Bill To Legalize Abortion Exception for Children Who Are Raped

    BTW, that's children as in 12 and under.
    That's the mirrrraaaaaccllllleeee ooffff llliiiiifffeeeeeeeee.
    No. It's not. People had unprotected sex, sometimes at a young age against their will.
    That's how that shit happens.
    What did they expect, a plasma TV?
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  17. #7597
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    I had to double check. Apparently as of 2019, 56% of IVF patients received the procedure through their insurance. Going to another state likely meant that they going to an out of network facility which won't be covered by their insurance. A single IVF cycle—defined as ovarian stimulation, egg retrieval and embryo transfer—can range from $15,000 to $30,000. Without insurance those are some pretty daunting numbers.

    Two more Alabama facilities have paused IVF treatment.

    More Alabama IVF providers pause treatment after court ruling on frozen embryos

    - - - Updated - - -

    Yikes.

    Tennessee GOP Kill a Bill To Legalize Abortion Exception for Children Who Are Raped

    BTW, that's children as in 12 and under.
    Welcome to Gilead. Blessed be the fruit!

  18. #7598
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    After the vote, forced birth organization Tennessee Right to Life sent an email to members calling Johnson an "abortion activist", saying her bill created an exception "based on the mother's age," and was designed to allow babies to be "aborted up until the day of birth."
    It's depressing how dumb people are to believe this trash. Like, "how do you function on a day to day basis" kind of dumb.

  19. #7599
    While not related to Roe V Wade this is related to the SCOTUS (and I didn't know where else to post this). John Oliver has legit offered to give Clarence Thomas 1 Million dollars a year until one of them dies for him to step down from the SCOTUS.

    This is out of John's on pocket and completely legal, Clarence Thomas has 30 days (from Sunday) to accept it. He also is throwing in a RV that cost's 2.5mil

    While cool this is fucken insane that the world has came to this, Our system is so fucken broke we have to bribe people to leave it.
    The last like 4min's of the video is where he offers it.

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  20. #7600
    https://www.npr.org/2024/02/22/12332...-ivf-treatment

    Six days after Alabama's Supreme Court ruled that frozen embryos are "children," upending in vitro fertilization treatments, a Republican state senator said he plans to introduce a bill that would protect IVF statewide.

    State Sen. Tim Melson, who chairs the Senate's Health Care Committee, said the bill would clarify that embryos are not viable unless they are implanted in a uterus.

    In its decision, the State Supreme Court gave frozen embryos the same rights as children. The court ruling came in a lawsuit by couples whose frozen embryos were accidentally destroyed in a clinic. The judges ruled that the states laws concerning wrongful deaths of minors do not exclude "extrauterine children."

    The judges urged the state Legislature to clarify Alabama law, which holds that life begins at conception.

    "They just read the bill, and the way it's written, it's like if you're going to say from conception, it's life, which I do believe it is. But it's not a viable life until it's implanted in the uterus," Melson said about Friday's ruling.

    Melson, who is also a medical doctor, says his proposal would make clear that "a human egg that is fertilized in vitro shall be considered a potential life," but should not be legally considered a human life until it is implanted in a uterus."

    Fertility clinics in Alabama are anxiously waiting for the Legislature to act, and at least three of them have put IVF treatment on hold or restricted their services. The University of Alabama at Birmingham health system, the state's largest hospital, said it is also halting some IVF services.

    "This is a huge, huge issue that affects so many families, and so many patients throughout the nation that we are very hopeful that there are dedicated, very intelligent, motivated legislatures that will help us with this process," said Dr. Beth Malizia with Alabama Fertility, which runs three clinics in Alabama.

    They have halted all new IVF treatment due to potential legal risks.

    The Center for Reproductive Medicine in Mobile, the clinic at the center of the Supreme Court lawsuit, has also halted IVF services. "The recent Alabama Supreme Court decision has sadly left us with no choice but to pause IVF treatments for patients," it said in a statement.

    "We are considered a pro-life state. But what's so ironic about that is there's not anything a lot more pro-life than a fertility practice trying to help couples who can't conceive, conceive a baby, " said Dr. Brett Davenport, with Fertility Institute of North Alabama, which has not curtailed services.

    Alabama's Supreme Court ruling has reverberated across the U.S.

    President Biden tied it directly to the U.S. Supreme Court decision in 2022 that ended the federal right to an abortion: "Make no mistake: this is a direct result of the overturning of Roe v. Wade." Speaking today in Grand Rapids, Mich. Vice President Kamala Harris said, "So on the one hand, the proponents are saying that an individual doesn't have a right to end an unwanted pregnancy. And on the other hand, the individual does not have a right to start a family. And the hypocrisy abounds."

    Alabama Democrats have introduced a bill that also makes it clear that an embryo outside a womb would not be considered a human child, but they are in the minority in the state legislature.

    Melson, a Republican, hopes his legislation will pass quickly so that Alabama's IVF clinics can continue to operate.

    "This issue is one that I've heard from several infertility clinics, and they're anxious to get it out and have the ability to go back to functioning," he said.
    I believe this is the first time we've ween Republicans in one of these states actually respond to a court ruling like this or stories of girls and/or women suffering due to unclear laws.

    So I guess it's possible that Republicans can respond to address the problems that are resulting in women suffering needlessly, they're just continuing to choose not to.

    But this is, ultimately, a good move by the Alabama Legislature in clarifying. Because the consequences of fetal personhood continues to be vast, like whether or not storing dozens of embryos in Alabama as a resident would allow you to qualify to claim them as dependents on your state taxes.

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