SCOTUS removes Roe V Wade

[Shadowferal]

The Overton window has shifted to the right recently so "let the states decide" is no longer as toxic as it once was, especially as you said, since voters have seen that they can largely control their own destiny with state level referendums even in red states.

...and democrats winning races that Republicans should have won... such as Mazi Pilip losing to Suozzi.. And referendums put on ballots that ensconced abortion rights...like deep red Kentucky. And forthcoming Arizona. The party is falling apart, and it's because of a single issue, they can’t win their war on abortion rights.

[Kaleredar]

The Overton window has shifted to the right recently so "let the states decide" is no longer as toxic as it once was, especially as you said, since voters have seen that they can largely control their own destiny with state level referendums even in red states.

“Largely” nothing. There are several states unilaterally banning abortions without voter input.

Besides, the notion of “it’s okay for some states to violate women’s bodily autonomy” is a real dogshit take.

Enshrining the federal right to choose has proven massively popular for the democrats. So much so that Trump is desperately trying to seem less crazy than the rest of the gop on the matter. And you really don’t want to have Trump seem “less crazy” than you at… anything. Because that really means you’ve gone off the deep end.

[Endus]

“Largely” nothing. There are several states unilaterally banning abortions without voter input.

Besides, the notion of “it’s okay for some states to violate women’s bodily autonomy” is a real dogshit take.

Enshrining the federal right to choose has proven massively popular for the democrats. So much so that Trump is desperately trying to seem less crazy than the rest of the gop on the matter. And you really don’t want to have Trump seem “less crazy” than you at… anything. Because that really means you’ve gone off the deep end.

"Let states decide" is a useful maxim for regional issues; letting California determine its own coastal protection or drought policies, say.

Not for issues of basic human rights. Anyone endorsing "let the states decide" for abortion rights is a religious fascist looking to oppress Americans' religious freedoms, and women in general.

[Rasulis]

I can assure you there will be a divided Congress during Trump's next term, so no bill will ever get to his desk.

All I'm saying is that he is attempting to walk a fine line on the issue, and as long as he doesn't outright support a national ban, it will be a successful strategy. This is as much an indictment on Biden's unpopularity as much as anything.

It is not going to work. He is directly responsible for what happened to Kate Cox in Texas, and thousands of other women in the same situation. There is no going around that.

[s_bushido]

The Overton window has shifted to the right recently

Fucking prove it. The GOP has been banging their "women are just breeding stock" drum for decades now, and yet somehow every time it actually comes up for a vote, the result has been towards maintaining women's rights. Not restricting it.

[Sunseeker]

Why y'all engaging with the clearly dishonest poster? All they're doing is spitting out buzzwords with no substance to back them up and claiming Biden is doomed.

[s_bushido]

Why y'all engaging with the clearly dishonest poster? All they're doing is spitting out buzzwords with no substance to back them up and claiming Biden is doomed.

I'm bored. Leave me alone.

There aren't many of these left around here anyway. They've all either been banned or scurried off to whine about women and black people in their comic book movies.

[Sunseeker]

I'm bored. Leave me alone.

There aren't many of these left around here anyway. They've all either been banned or scurried off to whine about women and black people in their comic book movies.

Yeah but think of how nice a discussion we could have about solving the issue, without constantly being derailed by bad actors?

I'm not saying this forum can solve all the worlds ills, but we could certainly engage in more productive discussions.

[s_bushido]

Yeah but think of how nice a discussion we could have about solving the issue, without constantly being derailed by bad actors?

I'm not saying this forum can solve all the worlds ills, but we could certainly engage in more productive discussions.

/shrug Without one of these clowns around, there's usually not much disagreement: Republicans bad. Vote for the only relatively sane option left. No one's organizing marches or protests from the MMO-C Politics sub, anyway.

[Rasulis]

Let's not oversell this, here.

The, "Let the states handle it." isn't a new or interesting or different position. That's long been the "palatable" position for Republicans when asked about the topic nationally and they don't have an extremist electorate. And it's long been understood to largely mean, "I want to ban abortion but I don't want to accept responsibility for that position."

Why is why despite anti-abortion groups complaining, we know they'll all line up behind him in November over this issue. Because not only do they understand the not-so-coded-language very well (despite their performative outrage now), but they know Donald will double down on the sector of the electorate that lavishes him with the most praise (them) and deliver them policy wins that hurt the right people.

The problem is that if he wants to appease his base and ban abortion at the Federal level, Trump does not have to pass a Federal abortion ban. If he became president again, all he had to do is tell his DOJ to enforce the Comstock Act of 1873. Which meant that no medications and equipment used in abortion procedure could be delivered through the US mail, FedEx, UPS, etc.

[Endus]

Yeah but think of how nice a discussion we could have about solving the issue, without constantly being derailed by bad actors?

I'm not saying this forum can solve all the worlds ills, but we could certainly engage in more productive discussions.

We've chased away plenty of godawful posters in the past. It's the "Nazi Bar" problem. You have to make it clear they're unwanted and that this isn't a safe space for them from the moment you notice the first guy with a couple questionable tattoos, or he tells his buddies it's a safe bar for them, and by the end of the week, you're a Nazi bar and no one else goes to your bar because it's full of Nazis.

[Rasulis]

Yeah but think of how nice a discussion we could have about solving the issue, without constantly being derailed by bad actors?

I'm not saying this forum can solve all the worlds ills, but we could certainly engage in more productive discussions.

There are plenty of disagreement on this board without inviting loonies with their "overton window" bs. Whatever that meant.

[Sunseeker]

We've chased away plenty of godawful posters in the past. It's the "Nazi Bar" problem. You have to make it clear they're unwanted and that this isn't a safe space for them from the moment you notice the first guy with a couple questionable tattoos, or he tells his buddies it's a safe bar for them, and by the end of the week, you're a Nazi bar and no one else goes to your bar because it's full of Nazis.

It's been a rather half-hearted effort of late IMO. And it seems any time we the posters make efforts to make those sorts feel unwelcome, we get hit with the hammer.

- - - Updated - - -

There are plenty of disagreement on this board without inviting loonies with their "overton window" bs. Whatever that meant.

I agree, and there's plenty of room even within agreement to discuss approaches and applications.

- - - Updated - - -

/shrug Without one of these clowns around, there's usually not much disagreement: Republicans bad. Vote for the only relatively sane option left. No one's organizing marches or protests from the MMO-C Politics sub, anyway.

It's why I don't engage with actual discussion here anymore. It all gets derailed by 5-page long segues with dishonest posters. I'd like to engage in more constructive discussion with honest posters.

[Dontrike]

"Leave it to the states" is probably the least abrasive take he could have right now

Will he stay true to his word? I don't know.

It's also huge lie and no, he won't stay true to his word. He's just saying this to seem moderate even though he has literally said that he's glad he killed Roe. If you can't realize he's lying then you live outside reality.

[Elegiac]

The Overton window has shifted to the right recently so "let the states decide" is no longer as toxic as it once was, especially as you said, since voters have seen that they can largely control their own destiny with state level referendums even in red states.

It’s shifted so far to the right that Democrats keep massively outperforming special elections even in red districts. /s

Does the big red nose come as part of the job for being a GOP shill or did you bring that from home?

[Paranoid Android]

Fox News gave the AZ Supreme Court's abortion ban just 12 minutes of coverage yesterday.

Republicans are desperately trying to sweep the problem they created under the rug.

Rolling Stone article below:

Fox’s primetime shows all failed to acknowledge the leading news story of the day.

Not sure if this happened on same day, but assume so. Guessing the whole 12 minutes was buried during the day when Fox does some news. Then at primetime of course you direct the sheep with your talking heads that it never happened. Well the talking heads are there to give them their spin and didn't know how to spin it. Just keep the audience in the dark.

[Somewhatconcerned]

It’s shifted so far to the right that Democrats keep massively outperforming special elections even in red districts. /s

Does the big red nose come as part of the job for being a GOP shill or did you bring that from home?

Neither Trump or Biden were on the ballot in any of these special elections so I would caution trying to draw any conclusions from them. Apples and oranges.

[Shadowferal]

Neither Trump or Biden were on the ballot in any of these special elections so I would caution trying to draw any conclusions from them. Apples and oranges.

Neither Trump nor Biden were mentioned. Democrats however...and associated policy...

[Edge-]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...law-rcna147422

Two Maine lawmakers are facing possible censure after one said the deadliest mass shooting in the state, in Lewiston in October, was a sign of retribution from God over the passage of a law expanding abortion access by the Democratic-led state Legislature and other “immoral laws."

During a floor debate Wednesday, state Republican state Rep. Michael Lemelin said God “draws a line in the sand, and when we crossed that line there’s consequences.”

“Meditate on this, Madam Speaker,” Lemelin said, addressing House Speaker Rachel Talbot Ross, a Democrat. “When (L.D.) 1619 passed and went into law on Oct. 25, you told God life doesn’t matter.”

Lemelin then drew parallels between a state law expanding abortion access and the Lewiston mass shooting.

“Keep in mind that the law came into effect on Oct. 25. God heard you and the horrible events on Oct. 25 happened,” he said.

Republican state Rep. Shelley Rudnicki later endorsed Lemelin’s remarks.

“I just want to stand and say that I agree with Rep. Lemelin and everything he said,” Rudnicki said on the chamber floor.

More on unhinged Republican insanity surrounding this topic.

State Rep. Rachel Henderson was among several Republicans who blasted Lemelin’s remarks, decrying them as “reprehensible” in an impassioned floor speech.

“Nowhere in the Bible do I see where the word of God is to be used as a weapon against people, or where we are told to speak on behalf of God to express his wrath to the people,” Henderson said. “The statements made today, I will not speak to the character or the motives, but those statements were reprehensible and ones that I do not support, and I do not get behind.”

“Although it’s not my place, I apologize to every member who was here and heard that and took offense,” she added. “I’m proud of where I stand. I’m proud of the positions that I take, but tonight I am not proud to be a Republican. I am not proud to have an ‘R’ in front of my name.”

Lemelin, Rudnicki and Ross did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

Eighteen people were killed on Oct. 25 when a 40-year-old Army Reservist opened fire at a bowling alley and a bar in Lewiston. The gunman was found dead by suicide after a two-day search.

The Maine House is set to hold a vote on censuring Lemelin and Rudnicki for their comments.

In letters to Lemelin and Rudnicki on Thursday, provided to NBC News by the House speaker’s office, Ross said the House would hold a vote on censuring them for comments that were “extremely offensive and intentionally harmful” to the victims of the shooting and their families.

“The behavior and your agreement with this language violated the order of decorum of the House Chamber,” Ross wrote. “Your actions are deserving of the most serious consequences this body can deliver.”

Ross also said the two Republican lawmakers must issue formal apologies, reading them on the House floor and delivering them in writing to members of House leadership, or they'd be denied the ability to vote or speak on the floor.

“You must accept sole and full responsibility for the incident and publicly apologize to your constituents, the victims and families of the Lewiston tragedy, the greater Lewiston community, the House of Representatives, and the People of Maine,” she wrote.

Just a reminder that there will always be plenty of Republicans more than happy to dishonestly use any and every tragedy for what they believe to be their partisan political gain. In some instance because it seems they may actually truly believe their own insane bullshit.

[Edge-]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/ari...ban-rcna148224

or the second time in two weeks, Arizona Republican lawmakers rejected an attempt to repeal a near-total ban on abortion from 1864 that was upheld by the battleground state’s Supreme Court.

The move to again block the Democratic-led effort came amid mounting pressure on state Republicans to repeal the ban, including from former President Donald Trump and Arizona GOP Senate candidate Kari Lake.

Still, Democratic lawmakers have faced an uphill climb in repealing the ban, as Arizona Republicans hold a narrow two-seat majority in both legislative chambers. On Wednesday, only one Republican joined state House Democrats in their effort to repeal the abortion ban.

Moments into the highly anticipated state House legislative session on Wednesday, Democrats introduced a bill to repeal the Civil War-era ban and filed a motion to Republican House leaders requesting an immediate vote.

Under Arizona House rules, a majority of the chamber must vote to suspend the rules to hold an immediate vote and that majority must include the House Speaker. Republican House Speaker Ben Toma has repeatedly expressed his opposition to repealing the ban.

The vote failed, prompting Democrats to move again to force a vote, which also fell short.

Arizona Republicans have twice now had the opportunity, thanks to Democrats, to repeal the 1800's abortion ban on the books that the state court just said are still valid - even if the AG will not enforce them with her limited resouces.

Despite many national and state Republicans decrying the ruling, again we have a situation where Republicans have the opportunity to take action yet decide to let the draconian abortion law remain in place, despite saying they disagree with it.

Republicans continue to struggle with honesty and consistency on this topic, with the repeat message being that the party remains writ-large supportive of the extremist restrictions even as they lie about their positions publicly and say they're not extremists.