SCOTUS removes Roe V Wade

[uuuhname]

Also for what it's worth I think comparing people who disapprove of abortion to proponents of slavery does not serve your side well.

sorry if pointing out their end game upsets you? like, we already have republican senators saying the states should decide if they should allow interracial marriage. if conservatives had their way they would reverse every legal decision and legislation back to the 1830's. they are totally on board with allowing the states to decide if owning chattel slaves is legal or not.

[Endus]

I appreciate your viewpoint and your passion, but I do not think you'll change my mind, to me abortion is a form of murder, the deliberate destruction of human life, immature as it may be.

Nobody wants to convince you of anything. You've chosen to believe a baseless, misogynistic thing, and reject all evidence and reason that argues against it.

The goal is to underscore precisely how abusive and meritless your viewpoint is to everyone else. Your religious extremism and desire to subjugate women as 2nd-class citizens is all we need to condemn you and your views.

Also for what it's worth I think comparing people who disapprove of abortion to proponents of slavery does not serve your side well.

You're at least as bad as proponents of slavery. You're pushing religious extremism with the intent of marginalizing and abusing innocent women, the overwhelming majority of whom don't share your religious views. They may be separate issues, but the venomous heart at the core isn't particularly different; in both cases, you deny the basic humanity of those you seek to victimize.

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Kinda hard to say, "Life is sacred!" while doing nothing to actually show you believe it outside of attacking womens bodily autonomy.

Also that any statement about how "sacred" life may be is, categorically, a religious view, and thus not a basis for secular law in any respect whatsoever.

Religion can only be tolerated if it sticks to instructing followers how they should live their own lives. The moment it tells those followers how to force others to live their lives, it's violently oppressive and a threat to basic human decency and freedom, and should be treated accordingly.

[Edge-]

"No more masturbating cause life starts with sperm!"

That moment when Monty Python is relevant again.

[Mehrunes]

I appreciate your viewpoint and your passion, but I do not think you'll change my mind, to me abortion is a form of murder, the deliberate destruction of human life, immature as it may be. No amount of talk about bodily autonomy will change that simple truth.

Magically enough that simple truth is rarely (if ever) true even for countries that aggressively punish abortion with criminal law penalties. For some inexplicable reason (that totes legit has nothing to do with the legislators responsible for it being full of shit) that's a separate crime from murder.

And I really don't believe that the organ transplant analogy makes any sense, nobody wants to force people to donate organs against their will, people want to stop people from killing unborn children.

Whatever people want to do or not has no bearing on the analogy. Them not wanting to only drives the point that anti-women folk are inconsistent hypocrites and the "pro-life" facade they choose to hide their anti-women agenda behind crumbles under slightest pressure.

Also for what it's worth I think comparing people who disapprove of abortion to proponents of slavery does not serve your side well.

Yeah, I'd say the fact that you're beyond comparable to proponents of slavery does not serve your side well, but you do you, I guess.

[Santti]

That moment when Monty Python is relevant again.

I like to think of George Carlin.

"Not every ejaculation deserves a name."

[Rasulis]

I bet your tune would change real fucking quick if they were coming after your penis and telling you what you can and can't do with it...

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"No more masturbating cause life starts with sperm!"

"If men can get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament." I think Gloria Steinem said that.

[Edge-]

"If men can get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament." I think Gloria Steinem said that.

Excuse me, that's "Saint Steinem" according to J. Allen Brak, formerly of Blizzard Entertainment.

[PACOX]

How come measures to outlaw abortion never come with increased pressure for the father to take care of the kid or other measures that protect life after delivery?

[Mehrunes]

The obvious point being that people disagree on the "rights of citizens." In this case, the rights of the most vulnerable future citizens of this country. The birth canal is the uber-bestower of rights to too many.

"Future citizen" isn't a thing in law and, weirdly enough, no Bible-thumping state that gets triggered by abortion being legal is willing to bestow citizenship, or even personhood (with all the legal protection it entails) to fetuses. Because they are full of shit and this whole thing is about enforcing their religious dogma upon women and has squat to do with protecting lives. There's a reason why red states keep defunding prenatal or postnatal care.

This is the status quo; a shocking change would be treating them with respect.

People deserve only as much respect as they earned and right wingers do everything in their power to earn none. That's their choice, I suppose, but they don't get to then whine about not being respected.

I think any fair reading of this thread proves the modern pro-choice movement holds 1) It should be solely a woman-and-doctor "healthcare decision" and "women's rights issue" 2) "when an individual is formed" isn't actually a question 3) other views can be easily discarded.

I don't think the opposing side, or at least the major one expressed here, can be any more transparent. Re-read a 20-page chunk, and start on whatever page you wish, and tell me people are wrestling with the multiple opinions on the subject and want to see them integrated and appreciated even in disagreement.

Women's bodily autonomy is indeed a women's rights issue, shocking as it may be to people civilizationally stuck in the neolithic. And please drop this pretentious pearl clutching shtick about not all opinions being treated equally when not all opinions are equal to begin with. Opinions like yours where "Akshually it's OK for women to be subjugated a bit. Why can't liberals be reasonable and compromise on that?" deserve no appreciation whatsoever.

[Endus]

Women's bodily autonomy is indeed a women's rights issue, shocking as it may be to people civilizationally stuck in the neolithic. And please drop this pretentious pearl clutching shtick about not all opinions being treated equally when not all opinions are equal to begin with. Opinions like yours where "Akshually it's OK for women to be subjugated a bit. Why can't liberals be reasonable and compromise on that?" deserve no appreciation whatsoever.

"Why won't anyone respect our venomous and meritless bigotry" is the weirdest fuckin' take of the '20s.

[Rasulis]

Do anti-abortion states truly care about women and families? These three figures answered that question.


So few states have paid family leave policy. That's disgusting.


Go Texas!


Look at the southern states.

[Edge-]

Look at the southern states.

Sure hard to come to another conclusion than, "Republicans would like women to go back to essentially being chattel property without rights."

I mean, for all the big game they talk about "the sanctity of life" it's the southern states with strict anti-abortion laws (or plans for them) that have the highest infant and maternal mortality rates in the country.

*channels inner Kanye*

Republicans don't care about women.

[Poopymonster]

Sure hard to come to another conclusion than, "Republicans would like women to go back to essentially being chattel property without rights."

I mean, for all the big game they talk about "the sanctity of life" it's the southern states with strict anti-abortion laws (or plans for them) that have the highest infant and maternal mortality rates in the country.

*channels inner Kanye*

Republicans don't care about women.

They are about them for as long as it takes to create a heterosexual fuck trophy to carry on the family name.

[cubby]

I appreciate your viewpoint and your passion, but I do not think you'll change my mind, to me abortion is a form of murder, the deliberate destruction of human life, immature as it may be. No amount of talk about bodily autonomy will change that simple truth. And I really don't believe that the organ transplant analogy makes any sense, nobody wants to force people to donate organs against their will, people want to stop people from killing unborn children. And as I said previously forcing people to donate a kidney is not the same thing as stopping an abortion, since there is a difference between killing and not saving people. Another poster argued that an abortion is the same thing, i.e. choosing not to save the child. I disagree with that viewpoint strongly, you can't claim you're merely not saving a life when you are the direct cause of its death.

Not donating a kidney is a direct cause of someone's death.

[Edge-]

Not donating a kidney is a direct cause of someone's death.

Not donating blood might result in the direct cause of death for someone, too. And donating blood isn't even very risky for the donor.

Guess we need to start mandating blood donations! Bring on the big-government control of our bodily autonomy, apparently! That's what conservatives keep saying, at least.

[cubby]

How come measures to outlaw abortion never come with increased pressure for the father to take care of the kid or other measures that protect life after delivery?

Because the conservative movement, enshrined in the hatred/ignorance/bigotry we see in posts from @tehdang and others in this thread, care not a whim for the child, and only care about subjugating women. Their talking points are rolling out from the GQP site. And remember, even though Abortion Rights on the conservative side are a religious argument, they don't even need that point to win this debate and issue.

And they are winning.

By 2024 a woman will be in jail, for a version of homicide, for having an abortion. By 2030 there might be a national anti-abortion law, outlawing it in all 50 states, relying on what Barrett's cult has ginned up to justify it.

The United States won't turn into something like Gilead overnight. But by 2050 we'll see something like that show's dystopian atmosphere when it comes to both women's rights and privacy overall.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

[Edge-]

*stupid people image*

Doublethink plus good!

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Not donating blood might result in the direct cause of death for someone, too. And donating blood isn't even very risky for the donor.

Guess we need to start mandating blood donations! Bring on the big-government control of our bodily autonomy, apparently! That's what conservatives keep saying, at least.

Also, everyone should be an organ donor by default now. Anything left of your corpse after all it's viable organs have been harvested should be donated to medical research.

[Elegiac]

Also, everyone should be an organ donor by default now. Anything left of your corpse after all it's viable organs have been harvested should be donated to medical research.

Child support should begin at conception! /s