1. #1261
    @matheney2k

    Uphill battle doesn’t mean useless. You can’t guarantee progress but you can slow some regression and as that generation dies out, the overwhelming majority ends up being able to fix stuff slowly.

    One of the biggest problems we have now is the majority of voters are the elderly voting in the values they grew up on or the religious voting on what they perceive as gods will and with a heaven that shitty hell gets pretty redundant.

    The younger generation refuse to vote, I am 40 years old and most of the people I know don’t vote except those who are morally on the wrong side of the issues.

    There is a reason why the GOP try to stop people from voting and admit they lose when they do and why they have to get more and more brazen to keep power as time has moved on.

    Americas biggest problem is that those who’s views are most damaging to this nation and the world are also the ones most willing to vote while those who actually would like to address and fix stuff stay home.

    So, the screw ups are the main ones making it through.

    Which is also why you see the DNC have no real initiative on anything except for when it comes to fighting within their own ranks to keep people with newer and more progressive values from coming in or getting power.

    But so long as you refuse to let your vote matter, you have no one but yourself to blame when your views are ignored.

    I’m 40 years old and I still think I have another 10 years before my generation actually starts to get power at this point because even they would rather stay home except the most fucked up among them.
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  2. #1262
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    @matheney2k

    Uphill battle doesn’t mean useless. You can’t guarantee progress but you can slow some regression and as that generation dies out, the overwhelming majority ends up being able to fix stuff slowly.

    One of the biggest problems we have now is the majority of voters are the elderly voting in the values they grew up on or the religious voting on what they perceive as gods will and with a heaven that shitty hell gets pretty redundant.

    The younger generation refuse to vote, I am 40 years old and most of the people I know don’t vote except those who are morally on the wrong side of the issues.

    There is a reason why the GOP try to stop people from voting and admit they lose when they do and why they have to get more and more brazen to keep power as time has moved on.

    Americas biggest problem is that those who’s views are most damaging to this nation and the world are also the ones most willing to vote while those who actually would like to address and fix stuff stay home.

    So, the screw ups are the main ones making it through.

    Which is also why you see the DNC have no real initiative on anything except for when it comes to fighting within their own ranks to keep people with newer and more progressive values from coming in or getting power.

    But so long as you refuse to let your vote matter, you have no one but yourself to blame when your views are ignored.

    I’m 40 years old and I still think I have another 10 years before my generation actually starts to get power at this point because even they would rather stay home except the most fucked up among them.
    Also, if you refuse to vote, you continue to have precisely zero influence at the ballot box and guarantee your views cannot ever gain representation.

    The only way for the percentage of protest non-voters have for eventually changing the system is to start voting. Even if it's for a candidate that's gonna lose. Even if it's a protest vote for the lesser evil.

    If everyone's voting on what the office orders for lunch, and you're allergic to seafood, and you don't speak up because a couple people already voted for "sushi" and nobody ever votes for Mexican, which you're hankering for, you're just letting the office pick sushi and that nobody knows you've got a serious issue with sushi.


  3. #1263
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Also, "late-term abortion" (which is not a medical term) is any abortion past 21 weeks...and these account for about 1% of all abortions. The reasons for these kinds of abortions are usually medical (for either the mother or the fetus). More often than not these were pregnancies the mother had intended to carry to term...but because of previously unknown factors, were bascially forced into an "elective" abortion.
    And it doesn't end there. I already mentioned it before, but it warrants repeating pretty much ad nauseum - the legality of late term abortions is left to the states as it is. By Roe v. Wade's very design no less. The states that don't want late term abortions already don't have them. As such the topic of late term abortions has no relevance whatsoever to the issue of whether Roe v. Wade should be abolished or not, because the (inexplicably) golden standard of doing things at state level is already practiced here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  4. #1264
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Also, if you refuse to vote, you continue to have precisely zero influence at the ballot box and guarantee your views cannot ever gain representation.

    The only way for the percentage of protest non-voters have for eventually changing the system is to start voting. Even if it's for a candidate that's gonna lose. Even if it's a protest vote for the lesser evil.

    If everyone's voting on what the office orders for lunch, and you're allergic to seafood, and you don't speak up because a couple people already voted for "sushi" and nobody ever votes for Mexican, which you're hankering for, you're just letting the office pick sushi and that nobody knows you've got a serious issue with sushi.
    Agreed, I wasn't a fan of Biden but when he won, I voted for him in the general. The only real time I will refuse to hold my nose if it goes down like that so long as they are the better option is if they start acting like they are owed the vote or being backhanded to their own voters.

    But so long as they are doing it legit and are the better option on the board, do it. Your vote has no sway if it's never cast.

    That's the whole reason the youth vote and even the middle aged voters can safely be ignored by both sides, if they never bother to show up, they never start to matter. And they had the golden opportunity with Sanders who came out pushing what they wanted and pushing fiscally responsible policies that helped them long term and they still stayed home.
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  5. #1265
    Old God Milchshake's Avatar
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    "Remember to vote. But *all* Dems are neo-liberal shills not worth voting for."
    This has to be the dumbest single lane in /politics.


    Again... Right-Wing agitprop doesnt work the same way on the the largest left-coalition party in the world.

  6. #1266
    Holy shit ppl, go outside and vote. Voting affects policy, if not on a federal or state level at least locally within your city.

    Why do you think republicans make it harder to vote

    This is why I hate ppl in their early 20s. They are too stupid for the responsibilitied we give them

  7. #1267
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Local and state level are arguably the most important when that’s who decides abortion laws for each state.
    They're critically important on a huge host of issues, especially since that's the literally strategy the GOP used to take over states over the past few decades.

  8. #1268
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    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    It really makes voting in the US feel nearly pointless
    What you're seeing is the result of low voter turnout, the results of people not voting because it felt pointless -- and it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Rewind to 2016, increase Clinton's turnout, and this thread does not exist.

  9. #1269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    It’s why I’ve been campaigning to get Virginia’s elections moved to actual election years instead off off years. It’s a method of voter suppression that allowed the GOP to take control of too many areas.
    I expect you are encountering a lot of push back on this issue.

    People care so much more about made up problems with voting than actual problems.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  10. #1270
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post

    If everyone's voting on what the office orders for lunch, and you're allergic to seafood, and you don't speak up because a couple people already voted for "sushi" and nobody ever votes for Mexican, which you're hankering for, you're just letting the office pick sushi and that nobody knows you've got a serious issue with sushi.
    Or to put it another way:

    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  11. #1271
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Or to put it another way:
    As fun as Spider is, it's more like there's a few knife-fuckers who vote religiously, and a larger mass of fuck-stab victims who don't vote because "the only politicians are pro-knife-fucking".

    Get out there and fuckin' vote, you assbags. You can literally change everything if you give enough of a shit. The USA is circling the drain because of apathy. It's a living expression of the mantra that all that evil requires to prosper is that good people do nothing​.

    "Guess we may as well get knife-fucked" is a stupid-ass position.

    "But we can't change anything" you've literally never even tried.


  12. #1272
    We can add Gucci and Amalgamated Bank to the list of companies that will be providing expanded abortion health coverage for their employees. Add AT&T, Pfizer and Charter Comm.

    It boils down to that in today’s labor market, where there is a war for talent, there is a perception that companies that do not offer the expanded benefit will be at disadvantage when it comes to recruitment. Especially for companies that recruit heavily from college graduates.
    Last edited by Rasulis; 2022-05-12 at 06:35 PM.

  13. #1273
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Maybe we should have voted harder?
    If y'all had voted harder in 2016 this wouldn't have been an issue.

    Instead we get endless bitching about how it's someone else's fault.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  14. #1274
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    But that's kind of my point in a way and I know how this is going to sound, but imho until most the baby boomers die out there isn't much to be done or win. It's just too corrupt. I mean again when was the last times republicans won the popular vote in the past 20years? Yet we've had several republican presidential terms in that same time span.
    "We've tried absolutely nothing and we're all out of ideas."

    Maybe we should have voted harder?
    Or, like, at all. Sort of the point. Voter non-participation is a key factor in why the USA is exactly how it is. You're letting the inmates run the asylum and complaining that you just can't do anything about it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    But again, she did win the popular vote. But voting is secondary to corruption and rigging the system.

    I do love all the Hillary memes now. My favorite so far is a picture of her in sunglasses with the caption "from the bitch who warned you and was right about everything!"
    Far be it from me to laud a neoliberal like Clinton, but she basically was right.

    And anyone who refused to vote or chose to vote Trump because of "corruption" wasn't paying any goddamned attention in 2016.


  15. #1275
    Immortal Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Far be it from me to laud a neoliberal like Clinton, but she basically was right.

    And anyone who refused to vote or chose to vote Trump because of "corruption" wasn't paying any goddamned attention in 2016.
    What bothered me the most about Trump supporters is so many repeated the lie that we needed Trump because he was a "political outsider" which is bs.

    He wasn't a political outsider. He just never held a political position. And 2016 wasn't even his first try at the Presidency.

    And Clinton wasn't the only one brining up Trump's issues.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2022-05-12 at 07:23 PM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  16. #1276
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    As fun as Spider is, it's more like there's a few knife-fuckers who vote religiously, and a larger mass of fuck-stab victims who don't vote because "the only politicians are pro-knife-fucking".

    Get out there and fuckin' vote, you assbags. You can literally change everything if you give enough of a shit. The USA is circling the drain because of apathy. It's a living expression of the mantra that all that evil requires to prosper is that good people do nothing​.

    "Guess we may as well get knife-fucked" is a stupid-ass position.

    "But we can't change anything" you've literally never even tried.
    Granted that the US has low voter participation rate. However, many jurisdictions in the US made it difficult to vote. San Francisco had a voter participation rates of 80% in 2016 and 86.8% in 2020. Much higher than the typical US large cities. The secret? The City/County made it very easy to vote. Down below is a map of polling places in San Francisco for the 2020 elections ranging from churches, Chinese and Buddhist temples, schools, people's garages. Keep in mind the City is only 46.7 sq. miles (7 miles by 7 miles at its widest). People literally could not walk a block without running into a polling place.

    Make it difficult to vote is GOP winning formula.


  17. #1277
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    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    But that's kind of my point in a way and I know how this is going to sound, but imho until most the baby boomers die out there isn't much to be done or win. It's just too corrupt. I mean again when was the last times republicans won the popular vote in the past 20years? Yet we've had several republican presidential terms in that same time span.

    Everything you said is technically true and it all sounds good on paper, but I'm looking at real life and real life results during my lifespan. My conclusion, at least for now, is that voting is largely ineffective outside of local stuff.

    Isn't it something stupid like almost 70% of Americans are pro abortion in some manner, yet we are about to overturn Roe v Wade and make women 2nd class citizens.

    Maybe we should have voted harder?
    The problem is, and has been, that the 30% of Americans who are against Roe v Wade? They vote all the time. In every election. You can't have a vote amongst your friends on what pizza toppings to get without someone you've never met showing up to sign up their dead grandmother to vote twice to overturn Roe v Wade. The 70% of people who didn't want to see it overturned? They DON'T show up. If the US had a 90% voter turnout, all the gerrymandering and corruption you see in the US still wouldn't be enough to actually pull it off. That's why you have Republicans who have openly stated that if votes aren't suppressed, they won't win.

  18. #1278
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    But that's kind of my point in a way and I know how this is going to sound, but imho until most the baby boomers die out there isn't much to be done or win. It's just too corrupt. I mean again when was the last times republicans won the popular vote in the past 20years? Yet we've had several republican presidential terms in that same time span.

    Everything you said is technically true and it all sounds good on paper, but I'm looking at real life and real life results during my lifespan. My conclusion, at least for now, is that voting is largely ineffective outside of local stuff.

    Isn't it something stupid like almost 70% of Americans are pro abortion in some manner, yet we are about to overturn Roe v Wade and make women 2nd class citizens.

    Maybe we should have voted harder?
    The thing is your point is a self fulfilling prophecy. The only reason the boomers have the power they do is BECAUSE you don't vote nor does most others like you. It's corrupt as hell but not insurmountably though and much of that corruption is aimed directly at keeping you from voting.

    The Republicans have lost the popular vote in every presidential election but 1 since the 1980's but have come close enough to be able to tilt the scales anyways. They can do that because they have kept the scale close enough that they can tip it, largely by making sure you don't or can't vote. The moment you tell them to fuck off and go to the ballots with your friends, THEY LOSE and they know it.


    It's not a maybe, flat out, VOTE HARDER. The uncast ballot is the opinion that doesn't matter and can safely be ignored.

    Quite literally, if you "Voted harder" and got your friends to do the same, the GOP would have been a footnote a long time ago. But so long as you don't care enough while their voters have a religious devotion.

    Think of it this way, you can be the best fighter in the world but you will be worthless in any combat and tournament and will be ignored by fighters a fraction of your skill if they show up while you don't.

    An angry voter who doesn't show up to vote isn't an angry voter, they are a harmless complainer and can and SHOULD be ignored until they actually have something they will come out to vote for.

    So, vote harder.
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  19. #1279
    The Turnaway Study from UCSF.

    What is the Turnaway Study?

    The Turnaway Study is the first study to rigorously examine the effects of receiving versus being denied a wanted abortion on women and their children. Nearly 1,000 women seeking abortion from 30 facilities around the country participated. Researchers conducted interviews over 5 years and compared the trajectories of the women who received a wanted abortion to those who were turned away because they were past the facility’s gestational age limit.


    The main finding of The Turnaway Study is that receiving an abortion does not harm the health and wellbeing of women, but in fact, being denied an abortion results in worse financial, health and family outcomes.

    The study finds that many of the common claims about the detrimental effects on women’s health of having an abortion are not supported by evidence. For example, women who have an abortion are not more likely than those denied the procedure to have depression, anxiety, or suicidal ideation. We find that 95% of women report that having the abortion was the right decision for them over five years after the procedure.

    The Turnaway Study does find serious consequences of being denied a wanted abortion on women’s health and wellbeing. Women denied a wanted abortion who have to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term have four times greater odds of living below the Federal Poverty Level (FPL).

    In addition, women denied abortion are:

    • More likely to experience serious complications from the end of pregnancy including eclampsia and death.
    • More likely to stay tethered to abusive partners.
    • More likely to suffer anxiety and loss of self-esteem in the short term after being denied abortion.
    • Less likely to have aspirational life plans for the coming year.
    • More likely to experience poor physical health for years after the pregnancy, including chronic pain and gestational hypertension.
    • The study also finds that being denied abortion has serious implications for the children born of unwanted pregnancy, as well as for the existing children in the family.

  20. #1280
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    I have always and do vote since I was 18. Very bad assumption on your part.
    You know full well that when they said "you" they didn't mean you personally. They meant younger voters in general, and the statistics prove them correct. Not enough young voters are voting to make a difference. The older bigots are. So we end up with politics that pander to those old bigots to a disproportionate extent.

    The only way to break that cycle is to vote, and keep voting. Vote until the bigots lose all the power. Then reform the system so that the bigots can never regain that power. Then start to vote in a way that changes things for the better. It won't be a quick process, but the longer people opt out of politics, the worse things are going to get.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

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