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  1. #141
    I guess this is more for the billions of mobile gamers vs the 1 million WoW players.

  2. #142
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    Then surely you wouldn't hold it against people for expecting a bit more from such a potent mix of talent and creative freedom?
    Are they though? A casual reading of this forum gives the impression they're all incompetent and under the thumb of Bobby Kotick. Which is it?

    I'm not saying it's true but I read a lot of posts here and some of the same folk who say the first are somehow expecting something spectacular from this and are now expressing their vast disappointment and anger. It's pretty hilarious.
    Most people judge because thinking is hard.

  3. #143
    WC3 Megathreader Lilithvia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghanir View Post
    Might be wary because of WC3R. It'll happen in due time considering it's a polished-entry mobile game and therefore very likely to make back what it cost to make in a short amount of time (depending on MTX, ofc)
    When that happens, I'm sure this will get moved. But for right now, the thread hopefully will be staying in the GD forum.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Are they though? A casual reading of this forum gives the impression they're all incompetent and under the thumb of Bobby Kotick. Which is it?

    I'm not saying it's true but I read a lot of posts here and some of the same folk who say the first are somehow expecting something spectacular from this and are now expressing their vast disappointment and anger. It's pretty hilarious.
    I know that many of them created Heroes of the Storm which is easily the most creative thing Blizzard has done while. There's some real talent behind this game even though it's clearly meant to be a creditcardsink for extremely bored people.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    No thats what you are saying. I'm simply saying its the parents job to protect their children, not the companies trying to make a quick buck. I dont think blizzard is acting in bad faith honestly.
    I think they are the worst based on their monetarization models. Not just WoW, where they utilize addicts and raiders to make them token money. D3 also was horrible at start with the rm auction house. This new mobile cash cow also is horrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    Most games can create addiction.
    Many games do not use psychological tricks to do that. WoW uses social bonds to create "loyal customers" by luring as many people as possible into guilds, they also abused skinner boxes to a large degree. And with boosting and the upcoming crafting system they even create economic addiction to virtual currency accumulation. People boost to get money to pay their playtime they use to boost. With a massive pyramid system starting at blizzard, going through raid leaders, raiders and down to the whales that pay the bill. The devs made their biggest playerbase nothing but a cash cow, without ever offering them real gearing progression or compelling gameplay.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    In fact most things can create addiction. I dont know what skinner boxes are, but i also dont think the intention of the social aspect of wow is to create addiction.
    Oh but it is. Actually, when Greg Street was in charge he even openly admitted that premade groups should create "loyal customers". As people would hestitate to quit if they lost social contacts. A Skinner box is literally about conditioning players to do an activity by offering a reward. Abusing a skinner box means you make players play for the reward only and get them to ignore the fact the gameplay is utter bullshit. When the reward is everything, you should stop playing a game. Especially if it is no fun to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    By default forming friendships is forming addictions to other people.
    No it does not. As friendship in real life often reaches beyond activities. Compared to a guild, a friendship is a strong social bond. Yet, socially week people could get addicted by those weak social bonds, while they would end at the very day people would simply quit the game. So people who have no real friends are actually in danger to get both addicted to the game and the weak social bond.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    So by the extend of that any game that encourages you to play with other people, and by that form friendships, encourages addiction. but thats a huge strawman.
    No, as those are no friends. A friend helps you if you are in need for help. And playing a computer game together is not even comparable to that. Also, social bonds in computer games do simply end when a guild dissolves most times. So those social bonds are normally of no value, as they are more about alliances of purpose to play a game. if you have to replace real social bonds with these weak bonds, you are subject to get addicted. And that is what developers like Hazzikostas and Street actually see as the best way to keep customers for years. While they forgot that most people simply do not do that, and they never would adress them with that approach. Unfortunately.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    I'm saying, in fact, that by far most companies making phone apps is far, far MORE greedy then Blizzard.
    Blizzard is even worse in their MMORPG. Which makes them special, as that is a pc game which once was about the community, the gameplay, and simply not about whale hunting at all costs as like it is nowadays. Also, the 2nd worse company is netease, which is blizzard cooperating with. Two monsters surely are worse than one.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    I'm literally saying that Blizzard is an angel by comparisson.
    No they are not. They are a bad apple. As i showed you with their WoW moneatization. And their recklessness in regard to both their pc games (d3/wow) and their mobile games.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    So no AH then? Gold was useless in d2 and it didnt stop rmt.
    Right, no AH then. No bind on equip items anymore. Everything is subject to your own effort. Well, yours and your guild if you chose to. And gold, like any other currency ingame, was simply soulbound and only be useful to purchase soulbound mats and equipment. That actually would destroy the gold market.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    Blizzard has not hired raid guilds to make them money. Keep your tinfoil hat stuff to yourself please. They also have not given any raid leaders free playtime.
    Sure they have. They hired them by offering their raid leaders free game time for boosting whales who buy blizzards tokens. At the top of the pyramid you find blizzard, and at the bottom you find raiders as whale hunters and casual gamers who intentionally got no own item progression as whales.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    You cant devalue gold as long as there is an AH
    I would remove the AH.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    which is pretty core to any MMO.
    Ragnarok and Lineage 2 got no auction houses. An auction house is no core feature of a proper MMORPG. Infact, as like an auction house is no core feature of any RPG. And D3 showed it was simply toxic and should also be removed from WoW. Collective effort should be limited to guilds and joining and leaving guilds should get a long cooldown do disallow guild hopping.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    By creating their own token they devalued the botters and have severely reduced rmt outside of the game, which lead to a lot of players having a bad time.
    By creating their own token they literally monopolized the gold market, as no "illegal" gold farmer could make it cheaper. Did they beat RMT? No, it still exists. Boosting even created a new RMT market that existed no matter if it was illegal.

    The real fix is to make gold useless for trade and all items bound on account and community items bound to community.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    And while i severely disagree with having tokens in the game - its one of the better solutions.
    No, it is not. The better solution is to remove the auction house and to make gold soulbound like any other currency. Hazzikostas is simply wrong if he acts as if gold is "like any other currency".. it is tradeable, which means, it is exploitable.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    Personally i'd reset gold by the next expansion by simply introducing a new coin... lets call it platinum, and having it be worth 100k gold for 1 platinum. They would then recalculate the cost of everything in the game with this in mind and quests in the new expansion would give out platinum instead of gold. They could do this each expansion if needed. That would help break the inflation, deincentivize botting(because less people would buy gold because everything would be cheaper on the AH).
    You would try to destroy the devil with a demon. No, the only solution is to get rid of a tradeable currency. But believe me, blizzard will never do that.. as they simply use it for their own profit. See tokens.

    The day Hazzikostas makes gold soulbound, i would sacrifice 1000 bear asses at his shrine. But i guess he rather takes the money.
    Last edited by cantrip; 2022-05-04 at 05:26 PM.

  6. #146
    Why the fuck would they make gold soulbound LMAO.

    Rip off an arm to fix a broken finger.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    yes it is the parents fault.
    Not if the gaming company encourages a kid to use money for play to win. That is not really comparable to your accident-scenario. Apples and oranges, you know?

    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    just like if you leave open booze bottles out and your kid drinks it, its your fault, and not the brewers fault for not making bottles that cannot be opened.
    Imagine your kid had a friend, and its friend would encourage your kid to buy drugs without you noticing your kid stole your grand. Is it you being responsible for that? Or could you simply not know?

    Again. apples and oranges from your side.

    Gaming companies should be limited by law in monetarizations. Especially the means blizzard uses.
    Last edited by cantrip; 2022-05-04 at 05:42 PM.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeula View Post
    This is just clash of clans with gacha, isn’t it? Soulless cashgrab. What a waste of development.
    I wouldn't call this soulless. It might not be for you, but I wouldn't call it soulless. It's a popular genre with WarCraft flavoring.
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  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Why the fuck would they make gold soulbound LMAO.

    Rip off an arm to fix a broken finger.
    Why are all other currencies (valor points, honor, soul dust, gnome brains..) in WoW soulbound? If you discover why you know the answer.

    While i would make all currencies account bound, not soul bound.
    Last edited by cantrip; 2022-05-04 at 05:52 PM.

  10. #150
    It's like clash royale (not of clans, different game, same studio, lol). I had alot of fun with royale before I hit the paywall and quit, I'll likely do the same with this one. I don't see why anyone who is super invested and has already spent money to climb in royale would play this instead though. But for folks like me it looks like it might be a fun waste of time.

    When the launch trailer first started I got worried though, thought it was going to be some amibo thing where you had to buy minis and register them to get them in game. If its successful I'm sure they'll at least make the minis though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"

  11. #151
    The Lightbringer Cæli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    A proper education isn't going to stop human psychology.
    asking a company to act "kindly" even less so.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    That is because i said you seem to live in a sad reality. Seems you are surrounded by assholes, and everyone is evil and bad and greedy. While reality is way more diversified than simply good and evil, and nothing in between. And in your case, it seems you believe there is only evil. While we talk about a gaming company. And not about warmongers, criminals and gnome slavers.

    Obviously you played too much world of warcraft, and now you think the ingame community is like the real world.



    No, people in general are not. There are many people who live a good life. There are many people who behave honorable. There are simply those that do their job and try to get a living wihout creating a lot of collateral damage. If you see the world as evil only, there is something wrong with you.



    Well, at least we agree that Blizzard is a bad company.
    my reality is the same as yours. we live in the same world, as a reminder. there is not only evil, but evil is omnipresent. the world isn't care bears and it's important that everyone learn about it. especially those living in rich countries. all in all it all boils down to how natural selection works. to sum up: your idea to expect blizzard to behave like a nice guy is completely out of touch with reality.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    clash royale has no pve mode, and only 1 map.
    this game has it beat in both of those.
    so yeah its just clash royale
    but with an extensive and massive pve mode and countless maps in comparison to just 1.
    Is it REALLY countless though? or is it like......7.......?
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Is it REALLY countless though? or is it like......7.......?
    It's like 60 maps I think they said. Maybe 70? I forget but they do say the number in the preview video.

    Also Ark didn't say this bit but I felt the need to correct it: Clash has way more than one map lol. The maps change as you climb rating. They're more like map skins though, lanes are the same I think.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    It's like 60 maps I think they said. Maybe 70? I forget but they do say the number in the preview video.

    Also Ark didn't say this bit but I felt the need to correct it: Clash has way more than one map lol. The maps change as you climb rating. They're more like map skins though, lanes are the same I think.
    Yeah and I'm 99% sure that's EXACTLY what you will be getting here - different visuals, but basically the same map. Which is fine, but I doubt it will be 70 unique maps with unique gameplay. More like 7 maps with 10 slight variations and visual changes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  15. #155
    I've played other time waster games like the Torchlight mobile game. Simple no brainer 'ARPG' that cycles through maps and just gets progressively harder, with some daily 'Raid boss' fight which you solo but contribute overall damage on the server to defeating. It wasn't great, but it wasn't bad either and I had fun for what it was worth.

    I'm playing some Galaga mobile phone F2P garbage right now, and it's totally P2W style game bogged with ads, but it's mindless fun that I can kill some time with. I actually found Hearthstone too involved to be a time-waster, it's really much more of a sit down and game game than a time-waster. I think this would be much more accessible.

    I don't really care too much about people thinking this needs to appeal to the WoW crowd or not. I don't think Blizz even cares considering they embraced the cringe with their whole announcement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  16. #156
    The Insane Aeula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    I wouldn't call this soulless. It might not be for you, but I wouldn't call it soulless. It's a popular genre with WarCraft flavoring.
    It’s 100% souless. They use the Warcraft IP and somehow manage to respect the setting and lore less than the WoW team. Just look at their lineup of “leaders” to the map of eastern kingdoms and Kalimdor they shat out.


  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeula View Post
    It’s 100% souless. They use the Warcraft IP and somehow manage to respect the setting and lore less than the WoW team. Just look at their lineup of “leaders” to the map of eastern kingdoms and Kalimdor they shat out.
    Er, what's wrong with it? Legit question.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    snip
    I just really fundamentally disagree with you on most of these things. I dont think you have any grounds to say that Blizzard has an especially nefarious business model compared to other companies - you just assume the worst imo.

    Ive never heard Greg Street say anything of the sort - it seems like an odd thing to say.


    Yet, socially week people could get addicted by those weak social bonds,
    I've met some of my best RL friends though wow - and today i play wow with 4 people who live within 30 minutes of my home. I think its a strawman and demeaning to try and belittle friendships just because they have started online.

    WoW is not even the worst mmo - by far - when it comes to its monitization model. I honestly dont think you have done the research to be able to say that.

    As for the last few quotes you just lost me. I honestly dont really know how to argue against your consipracy theory about blizzard hiring guilds. I dont know where this comes from - there is literally no evidence of this.

    As for items and AH and gold and so forth i just generally disagree aswell.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeula View Post
    It’s 100% souless. They use the Warcraft IP and somehow manage to respect the setting and lore less than the WoW team. Just look at their lineup of “leaders” to the map of eastern kingdoms and Kalimdor they shat out.
    Of all the things you could've complained about, you picked the most nonsense two.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    Not if the gaming company encourages a kid to use money for play to win. That is not really comparable to your accident-scenario. Apples and oranges, you know?



    Imagine your kid had a friend, and its friend would encourage your kid to buy drugs without you noticing your kid stole your grand. Is it you being responsible for that? Or could you simply not know?

    Again. apples and oranges from your side.

    Gaming companies should be limited by law in monetarizations. Especially the means blizzard uses.
    There is a major difference.

    A company you buy/lease a product from is not your friend. There is a reason why being betrayed by a friend is one of the worst things - as that is someone you are supposed to be able to trust. A 12 year old is a kid - he has no financial accountability - it is you as the parent that has that accountability.

    Its like going down to a grocery store with a billboard displaying icecream for sale. Then giving your son your wallet, covering your eyes and ears and just standing still for 5 minutes. Then being angry at the store for your son going in and buying icecream.


    Edit:
    Also let me add this.

    Blizzard does not make popups linking to other gatcha games or popus linking directly to instant pay services in the middle of playing their mobile games. Most other mobile games do that. And thats literally the worst offender when it comes to children because if you have a card attached they can unknowingly spend money on, as an example, an ipad or iphone. THAT is despicable. And MOST mobile game companies do it.
    Last edited by ClassicPeon; 2022-05-04 at 10:03 PM.

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