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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    They also state it is collaborative work, which means, "you" are either the crafter or the person that receives the crafted item. Otherwise it would not work as collaborative work.
    If that was the case then they don't need to mention soulbound reagents at all, considering you're implying that Crafters can just make it for anyone who Orders it. There's no point to saying 'You must have this soulbound reagent', it would be a complete redundancy.

    Kinda like saying 'Keep in mind, you need a soulbound Nether Vortex to craft Epic gear. Crafters can provide their own soulbound Nether Vortex to make gear for you too'. Like, the whole point of 'soulbound' would be redundant.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-05-05 at 05:19 PM.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    Thanks for clarification. They also write:



    That means, you can get the soulbound item they refer to from other activities. Which means, this item is probably not the most interesting part about the crafting system, but more likely simply something you need to put effort into.

    What about ingredients you need especially from raids? The problem i talk about still could exist, you would either have to buy them from the auction house or you would have to play raids yourself. So in the end, this soulbound item does not change the outcome you need raid materials.
    They specifically say there are no items you need specifically from raids. They mention multiple sources for the soulbind items because wow has multiple end game systems now

  3. #83
    BoP reagents only work for YOUR items. The only thing that changes is that you no longer need to be the crafter for your own BoP reagents, you can outsource that to someone else. But that doesn't mean you can use THEIR BoP reagents - which would be absolutely stupid, since it would allow for precisely what they want to avoid, i.e. using gold to buy progression.

    Your BoP reagent -> Your BoP item.

    It's that simple.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    If that was the case then they don't need to mention soulbound reagents at all, considering you're implying that Crafters can just make it for anyone who Orders it. There's no point to saying 'You must have this soulbound reagent', it would be a complete redundancy.
    No, that was just where i was wrong. That soulbound item is simply an effort everyone has to make in whatever he plays.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    No, that was just where i was wrong. That soulbound item is simply an effort everyone has to make in whatever he plays.
    I think you're still misunderstanding the concept.

    The intent I get from the statements about drops from world content, dungeons and raids sounds like it will be a singular rare, soulbound reagent that you can get from multiple sources. So they're not dividing it to Raid craft from Raid Reagents. It's just "Epic craft from soulbound reagents you can obtain from X/Y/Z content, which you can have crafted for you through a work order without having the profession yourself."

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    Thanks for clarification. They also write:



    That means, you can get the soulbound item they refer to from other activities. Which means, this item is probably not the most interesting part about the crafting system, but more likely simply something you need to put effort into.

    What about ingredients you need especially from raids? The problem i talk about still could exist, you would either have to buy them from the auction house or you would have to play raids yourself. So in the end, this soulbound item does not change the outcome you need raid materials.

    So in the end, to have a crafting order available, you need to get that soulbound item from lots of activities, and it is simply replaceable by whatever gameplay you play. Additionally to that, you need crafting ingredients from raids or mythic+ to even be able to craft that item. And you could either buy these from the crafter or from the action house, which would need another gold investment.
    This new argument has nothing to do with what you were talking about. You were wrong. It's a soulbound item specifically for the buyer. So you were wrong, completely wrong, not even close to being correct. You need to understand that.

    Secondly

    What about ingredients you need especially from raids? The problem i talk about still could exist, you would either have to buy them from the auction house or you would have to play raids yourself. So in the end, this soulbound item does not change the outcome you need raid materials.
    Are you trolling? You literally quoted the answer to your own question


    But if say, you wanted to craft heroic raid tier gear as a normal raider, you could choose to go do other activities such as m+, pvp, or challenging outdoor activities to supplement the reagents required and get better gear sooner..

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    They are locking the upgrades around soulbound regents that drop from higher difficulties so is this entire revamp nothing but a new gold sink? Rather then just allowing the gear to drop at higher difficulties?

    Don't get me wrong I assumed the worst from the outset but this seems to do nothing but add a pointless gold sink to what would otherwise just be normal loot.
    its another come back to old - "if you do not raid you cannot craft anything significant. "

    basickly another casual unfriendly change in already dying game.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Royru View Post
    This new argument has nothing to do with what you were talking about. You were wrong. It's a soulbound item specifically for the buyer. So you were wrong, completely wrong, not even close to being correct. You need to understand that.
    You are right. Thanks for showing me

    I do not really read the wow forums anymore, so that is the info i was missing.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    If that was the case then they don't need to mention soulbound reagents at all, considering you're implying that Crafters can just make it for anyone who Orders it. There's no point to saying 'You must have this soulbound reagent', it would be a complete redundancy.

    Kinda like saying 'Keep in mind, you need a soulbound Nether Vortex to craft Epic gear. Crafters can provide their own soulbound Nether Vortex to make gear for you too'. Like, the whole point of 'soulbound' would be redundant.
    the point is its soulbound so you cannot sell it on ah

    this way AH goblins cannot make gold from it if they do raid themsleves.

    downside is you cannot craft anythign nice if you dont raid and only raiders can be decent crafters.

    basickly backwards design benefiting just top 1 %

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I think you're still misunderstanding the concept.

    The intent I get from the statements about drops from world content, dungeons and raids sounds like it will be a singular rare, soulbound reagent that you can get from multiple sources. So they're not dividing it to Raid craft from Raid Reagents. It's just "Epic craft from soulbound reagents you can obtain from X/Y/Z content, which you can have crafted for you through a work order without having the profession yourself."
    Yeah, thanks for this clarification as well. I have no problem with being wrong.

    To redeem my wronggoing here, i offer to sacrifice one hundred gnomes on the shrine of stereotypes And my excuse for being a little bit stubborn.
    Last edited by cantrip; 2022-05-05 at 05:31 PM.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    the point is its soulbound so you cannot sell it on ah

    this way AH goblins cannot make gold from it if they do raid themsleves.

    downside is you cannot craft anythign nice if you dont raid and only raiders can be decent crafters.

    basickly backwards design benefiting just top 1 %
    No you dont get it.

    There are no raid only materials. There are endgame materials obtainable from multiple different sources, not only raiding.

  12. #92
    In the end, and after i got a well deserved blow into my stomach, i guess this system could be not that bad. We will have to wait for beta tester impressions i guess.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    Well, you can make a lot of token gold with crafting in Dragonflight. Especially as a raider if you have raid mats and raid recipes.

    And blizzard will not remove boosting. Guilds like method still do it. They just advertise outside of the game.

    see https://www.wowhead.com/news/boostin...ard-ban-326953

    I am sure blizzard is not going to ban these high profile guilds. The devs love them.
    so once again content for raiders not for casuals/ non raiders

    this speaks volumes how 10.0 will look like

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    No you dont get it.

    There are no raid only materials. There are endgame materials obtainable from multiple different sources, not only raiding.
    but divided by difficulty you do. this is the part that you are omiting

    nobody cares about normal raid level garbage with gearing up via m+ .

    if its not at least hc raid level crafts its meaningless

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    so once again content for raiders not for casuals/ non raiders

    this speaks volumes how 10.0 will look like
    No, i was wrong, obviously. Read the most recent posts, especially the quotes from the kind @Royru

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    the point is its soulbound so you cannot sell it on ah

    this way AH goblins cannot make gold from it if they do raid themsleves.

    downside is you cannot craft anythign nice if you dont raid and only raiders can be decent crafters.

    basickly backwards design benefiting just top 1 %
    It's not backwards design.

    You know what happens if you allow crafters to use their own soulbound mats to create gear that anyone can use? Boosting.

    Raiding guilds all have easy access to soulbound mats. Their crafters would be able to flood the market with 'BoP' Work Orders and provide epic items to anyone who wants them, without the buyer providing any mats at all. Buyer just straight up pays the gold fee, with zero effort in obtaining the gear. This is exact problem with Boosting today.


    The way it's explained for Dragonflight, the Buyer needs to put in effort to obtain Soulbound Reagents, which can be obtained in multiple sources of content. It's just 'Epic Gear'. The soulbound reagents aren't raiding specific, you can get it from M+, world content and PVP as well.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-05-05 at 05:56 PM.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post

    but divided by difficulty you do. this is the part that you are omiting

    nobody cares about normal raid level garbage with gearing up via m+ .

    if its not at least hc raid level crafts its meaningless
    Its difficult to discern the meaning of what you write here so i'm gonna say it again.

    The soulbind materials you need for the crafts that are on par with mythic raid ilvl gear are obtainable from multiple sources. Both raiding and mythic plus + more.

    You can get mythic raiding ilvl gear from crafting from doing m+.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    It's not backwards design.

    You don't want the market being flooded by raiding guilds who all have easy access to soulbound mats making all the gold while everyone else is literally 'paying to win' buying gear they don't have to put any effort in obtaining, and purely paying gold for.

    That's what happens if you allow crafters to just make the 'best of the best' gear with their own soulbound materials.
    no . crafting in good rpg game is its own game. there is nothing wrong with crafting being viable way to play the game

    we are basickly returnign to stone age of wow - old talents , old way of crafting where only raiders can craft , no legendaries , nothign interesting to do in game but raid.

    this is disaster waiting to happen months before launch .

    this will be basicly WoD with pre mop talents and m+ .

    god help us all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    Its difficult to discern the meaning of what you write here so i'm gonna say it again.

    The soulbind materials you need for the crafts that are on par with mythic raid ilvl gear are obtainable from multiple sources. Both raiding and mythic plus + more.

    You can get mythic raiding ilvl gear from crafting from doing m+.
    ye mutliple sources. like +20 dungeons and being glad in pvp

    so hardpass for 99% of potential playerbase

    this is not what players asked for . this is abomination not crafting.

  18. #98
    remember, individual materials will have different QUALITIES.

    from what i've seen in pictures/the reveal video they'll range from 1/5 to 5/5.

    As a (mythic) raider, i can see the requirements being "only 5/5 quality flasks/pots" which will be the most extreme gold sink ever. I can see singular pots costing multiple thousands of gold.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    ye mutliple sources. like +20 dungeons and being glad in pvp

    so hardpass for 99% of potential playerbase

    this is not what players asked for . this is abomination not crafting.
    Its not what players asked for?

    Who made you the authority on what players asked for?

    Where are you getting the info that its only for 20+ dungeons and glad? At this moment for all the info we have it could have a chance to drop from lfr and m+0(or even just mythic dungeons) and random battlegrounds.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by ceall View Post
    As a (mythic) raider, i can see the requirements being "only 5/5 quality flasks/pots" which will be the most extreme gold sink ever. I can see singular pots costing multiple thousands of gold.
    The rise and fall of this system is simply bound to the question if you need to play high end content to become able to be a high end crafter. I hope blizzard does not repeat this mistake. A dedicated crafter really should be able to invest months into crafting to become able to build the best stuff. No matter, if he actually plays content you need the stuff for. If blizzard does that, this system could be good.

    Any kind of "forge" you only find in mythic raids or dungeons would contradict that. Any mat you would need from high end instanced content would contradict that.

    I will wait until beta to judge finally.
    Last edited by cantrip; 2022-05-05 at 05:57 PM.

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