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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Loot is easily acquired while crafted items are in most cases not worth the effort and price. Especially with the abundance of loot in mythic (+).
    Again, crafting is being made not as a replacement for loot, but more as bad luck protection from what it seems. Also, if an alchemist can do a trinket that scales up to top ilvl, depending on the proc it can easily become BiS for someone. It really all depends on balancing.

    Weapon/trinkets are usually the biggest dps increases. Also was mentioned how the new "craft your tier" idea could be easily baked into professions because it just makes sense and both keeps them relevant longer ad removes the need to create a new "tier forge with a new name and an arbitrary currency" each patch.
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Loot is easily acquired while crafted items are in most cases not worth the effort and price. Especially with the abundance of loot in mythic (+).
    I have a problem with Blizzard saying they "want crafting to be supplemental " to loot. Once again no own progression path. And obviously limited to be supplemental to other progression pathes, which you have to play to advance in crafting.

    Crafters should be allowed to be crafters only. In ESO, you can farm all mats needed in the open world and solo / public dungeons and even get BIS sets with setbonuses from doing that.

    Blizzards gate keeping and protecting their premade group players dominant ilevel simply sucks big time.
    Last edited by cantrip; 2022-05-06 at 02:19 PM.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Loot is easily acquired while crafted items are in most cases not worth the effort and price. Especially with the abundance of loot in mythic (+).
    How can you realistically even say they haven’t addressed this in dragon flight when you have no idea how this is going to work? They said the gear will be on par or sometimes even bis.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Royru View Post
    Crafting benefits the casual gamer and I guess it adds more ‘flavor’ in how you get your gear besides just spamming dungeons and raids 24/7 it gives players another system to work on if they want or if they just want to raid them just raid and get an equivalent piece from there.

    I don’t really think you are going to NEED to craft gear but it’s an option for you if you want. And if you’re a min max Andy, then who cares you’re going to do it anyway
    This, pretty much.
    Though the same is true as always:

    It all depends on the implementation!
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  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Royru View Post
    Crafting benefits the casual gamer and I guess it adds more ‘flavor’ in how you get your gear besides just spamming dungeons and raids 24/7 it gives players another system to work on if they want or if they just want to raid them just raid and get an equivalent piece from there.

    I don’t really think you are going to NEED to craft gear but it’s an option for you if you want. And if you’re a min max Andy, then who cares you’re going to do it anyway
    It doesn't benefit a casual gamer if the items require raid-only reagents.

    Doesn't sound like your slur usage is necessary, either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elbob View Post
    How is the new system a gold sink when the crafter or buyer can have the bop drops for the item? It means as the crafter you can farm rare mats to sell crafts for profit or as the buyer you can farm everything yourself and use the new crafting AH for completion (this is all assuming i understand the new system)
    Farming materials to use yourself instead of selling them is also a gold sink. Just one that is harder for some types of people to understand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    I think you dont understand the system at least how it is atm. Let's say the crafter clears a mythic 15 and gets a 262 material to craft with.

    No one but the crafter can use that. It can't be traded to anyone else and anything made with that can only go to the player that looted it.

    It's like a tier token with needless extra steps. You can't " buy" bop gear from a crafter you would have to buy a carry then pay a crafter to make the item.
    Citation needed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by oplawlz View Post
    I mean you just described an ideal system. If you want the best crafted stuff you either put in the work to make it yourself or pay someone a premium who wasn't lazy. One of the interviews specifically stated they aren't going to have a massive gold barrier to crafting like the current leggo system.
    There is no problem here.
    The current legendary system didn't have a massive gold barrier. 100k gold for 291 items is very cheap, and they have since fallen to 15k. There is no incentive to craft if you don't make any money.

    Anyhow.

    Bliz saying they want crafting to be cheap is great and all but has no impact on reality. The reality is they've added these "crafting quality" levels, which will mean "everyone" will consider anything but the highest level to be garbage. In a "we hope to get AOTC" guild? You'll be "required" to bring level 4/4 potions, level 3/4 potion will be a warning and level 2/4 will be a /gkick!

    But hey, 4/4 potions will "only" offer like 20 more mainstat or whatever... which is equal to a food buff which people demand today. No way they'd demand that tomorrow!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    That isn't how that is read though he goes into further depth in an interview... I want to say it was the wowhead one?

    You have the option of providing all the materials ( the boe items or,leather,etc) the ones you have to get yourself with determined the ilv of the item. So far they only explained normal mode raids would drop normal mode ilv and mythic raids mythic ilv but I would assume that would carry over to dungeons as well and maybe rated pvp.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    Correct but that kind of begs the question why have this system?

    Why not have it be a token you can turn in for a slot or is it just a desperate attempt to somehow revive lingering systems that should be put out to pasture?

    If I am already required to clear difficult content what sense is there in adding a regent cost mostly gathered by bots to convert it into an item beyond brute forcing a trade system into the game?
    "What's the point of a meaningful crafting system other than meeting the constant demands/feedback for a meaningful crafting system from the players"




    One benefit of the system as described is you can fully gear alts without playing them. Use your main to raid mythic, get a crafting reagent that is BOP for a BOP item. On your alt, create a work order for 1 gold to make the item, missing the BOP item. Log back on your main and select the work order and do it, for a net gold loss (to yourself). Your alt now has mythic level gear despite not playing.
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  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    It doesn't benefit a casual gamer if the items require raid-only reagents.

    Doesn't sound like your slur usage is necessary, either.
    They already explained many times that they won’t.

    Also did you just call “min max Andy” a slur lol

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    They are locking the upgrades around soulbound regents that drop from higher difficulties so is this entire revamp nothing but a new gold sink? Rather then just allowing the gear to drop at higher difficulties?

    Don't get me wrong I assumed the worst from the outset but this seems to do nothing but add a pointless gold sink to what would otherwise just be normal loot.
    It is literally so people buy tokens.

  8. #128
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    Tldr; OP misunderstood the new system.
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  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    Farming materials to use yourself instead of selling them is also a gold sink. Just one that is harder for some types of people to understand.
    o you don't know what a gold sink is.... maybe you should back out of the convo now. Doing the work yourself being effectively a cost via time is not the same as a gold sink.

    "Gold sink is an economic process by which a video game's ingame currency ('gold'), or any item that can be valued against it, is removed. This process is comparable to financial repression in real economies. Most commonly the genres are role-playing game or massively multiplayer online game. The term is comparable to timesink, but usually used in reference to game design and balance, commonly to reduce inflation when commodities and wealth are continuously fed to players through sources such as Gold taps; such as quests, looting monsters, or minigames. "

    Having expensive VENDOR mats is a gold sink. Having farmable crafting mats is not.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post


    Bliz saying they want crafting to be cheap is great and all but has no impact on reality. The reality is they've added these "crafting quality" levels, which will mean "everyone" will consider anything but the highest level to be garbage. In a "we hope to get AOTC" guild? You'll be "required" to bring level 4/4 potions, level 3/4 potion will be a warning and level 2/4 will be a /gkick!

    But hey, 4/4 potions will "only" offer like 20 more mainstat or whatever... which is equal to a food buff which people demand today. No way they'd demand that tomorrow!
    Hyperbole much? Not a single casual AOTC guild me or people I know have been in have ever once kicked somebody over not having food/potion/flask/enchant buffs. And the only time I've ever seen them even ask people to be flasked is when there's a cauldron provided or the raid lead is handing out flasks. Hell, the only time most people in those kinds of guilds even use potions is on the first pull or on pulls once you're getting close to finally getting the kill. Last guild I was in we had enchanters that would spend downtime between pulls inspecting people and handing out missing enchants for free. Most people are nowhere near as toxic as you seem to think.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    They are locking the upgrades around soulbound regents that drop from higher difficulties so is this entire revamp nothing but a new gold sink? Rather then just allowing the gear to drop at higher difficulties?

    Don't get me wrong I assumed the worst from the outset but this seems to do nothing but add a pointless gold sink to what would otherwise just be normal loot.
    Thats what work orders are for so you can use your materials and get a crafter to make it for you, so you dont need to do crafting if you dont want but still have the option to get items.
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  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Thats what work orders are for so you can use your materials and get a crafter to make it for you, so you dont need to do crafting if you dont want but still have the option to get items.
    I kinda get the feeling that when a video comes out on how this works without changes to it a fair amount will be up in arms about it.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    One benefit of the system as described is you can fully gear alts without playing them. Use your main to raid mythic, get a crafting reagent that is BOP for a BOP item. On your alt, create a work order for 1 gold to make the item, missing the BOP item. Log back on your main and select the work order and do it, for a net gold loss (to yourself). Your alt now has mythic level gear despite not playing.
    You wont be able to craft current mythic level gear without actually doing the content, the materials should only drop if you are doing the content so you can fill out missing items or get better stats, your not going to just do normal raid content and eventually craft mythic items.
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  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    I doubt that as this did not happen with Zenimax online until now. They also have a MMO, and nothing changed since Bethesda was acquired.

    I guess it will take a generation of games until Blizzards IPs will be used for and from microsofts platforms.
    All of the mmo's that are owned by Microsoft are free to play though they've never introduced one that only has a free require to play it.

    This acquisition wasn't just for the games, this was primarily an acquisition of user base, If you think for 1 second they're not going to merge those 2 user bases you're fooling yourself.
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  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    All of the mmo's that are owned by Microsoft are free to play though they've never introduced one that only has a free require to play it.
    Well, ESO was f2p with an optional sub and a cosmetics shop before Microsofts acquisition and it is f2p with an optional sub and a cosmetics shop long after they acquired it. It is still not available on gamepass, but only on a seperate launcher and steam, which it was before the acquisition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    This acquisition wasn't just for the games, this was primarily an acquisition of user base, If you think for 1 second they're not going to merge those 2 user bases you're fooling yourself.
    The user base is not really interesting that much, but the IPs are. Users fluctuate very fast. Microsoft owns Skyrim, Warcraft and Diablo as intellectual property. That is all that matters. And its future is. Microsoft is not going to change anything in present projects. See Bethesda. But in the future they will focus on creating new games for their console and their platform whiich are based on the new IPs.

    The battle net launcher likely will exist for some time. At some point Microsoft might incorporate battle.net into their infrastructure but i guess it is not a matter of weeks or months but more of years.
    Last edited by cantrip; 2022-05-07 at 06:27 AM.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Royru View Post
    How can you realistically even say they haven’t addressed this in dragon flight when you have no idea how this is going to work? They said the gear will be on par or sometimes even bis.
    Again, Mythic+ exists. They failed with their approach in Legion, made it worse in BfA and obsolete in Shadowlands. I'm baffled that people still expect them to make crafting relevant or good when they have proven over and over again that they simply have no idea on how to achieve that.
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  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Again, Mythic+ exists. They failed with their approach in Legion, made it worse in BfA and obsolete in Shadowlands. I'm baffled that people still expect them to make crafting relevant or good when they have proven over and over again that they simply have no idea on how to achieve that.
    I will repeat myself once again. How can you realistically even say they haven’t addressed this in dragon flight when you have no idea how this is going to work? They said the gear will be on par or sometimes even bis.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    Well, ESO was f2p with an optional sub and a cosmetics shop before Microsofts acquisition and it is f2p with an optional sub and a cosmetics shop long after they acquired it. It is still not available on gamepass, but only on a seperate launcher and steam, which it was before the acquisition.



    The user base is not really interesting that much, but the IPs are. Users fluctuate very fast. Microsoft owns Skyrim, Warcraft and Diablo as intellectual property. That is all that matters. And its future is. Microsoft is not going to change anything in present projects. See Bethesda. But in the future they will focus on creating new games for their console and their platform whiich are based on the new IPs.

    The battle net launcher likely will exist for some time. At some point Microsoft might incorporate battle.net into their infrastructure but i guess it is not a matter of weeks or months but more of years.
    I don't think it's going to be as long as you think it is before they integrate.As soon as they introduce blizzard games to game pass they're gonna have to have a way to share your account across those platforms nobody's gonna start their shit all over.
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  19. #139
    Latest blue posts seem to show Blizzard checks if patterns from raids should be BOE. Sure, that would allow raiders to make gold, but it is way better than if they alone would be able to craft it.

    I think all crafting patterns should be BOE. And all mats from raids and instances in general should be as well.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    Latest blue posts seem to show Blizzard checks if patterns from raids should be BOE. Sure, that would allow raiders to make gold, but it is way better than if they alone would be able to craft it.

    I think all crafting patterns should be BOE. And all mats from raids and instances in general should be as well.
    IF all the mats for best mythic-level recipes were BoE, game would become more pay-to-win than ever. I agree on your notion about patterns though. Just like staves dropping for warrior, pattern you can't use or sell is just as useless.

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